Can someone dumb this down for me ?

czoolander

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So need some phosphates and nitrates for dummies type of answers so my simple mind can understand haha

My nitrates were increasing weekly from 10 to 15 to 17 to 25 and got up to 30 . Phosphates were always 0.00

I started dosing Neophos 10-20 ml which would measure about .02 -.04 then back to 0.00 so lately I have been dosing 20ml .04 phos every 1-2 days but still my phosphate drops to 0.00 when i test sometimes . What is consuming all this phosphate?

My nitrates tested last night at 15.3 which is half of what they were last time . So i think i remember hearing that phosphate will consume nitrates ?? is this correct?

I know corals will consume nitrates so if my corals are growing maybe they will consume more phosphate and nitrates ?

The bottle of Neophos says not to exceed .04 P04 but i am wondering if its getting consumed so fast could i dose 40 ml or 60 ml or would that be asking for trouble ? too much phosphate to add to the tank at once ??
 

AFHokie

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What are you using to test your P04?

Algae consumes P04. Do you run chaeto or have any other macro algaes? What about micro algae in your tank?

I use NeoPhos and NeoNitro as well and one thing I noted is that the directions are written for Ultra Low Nutrient systems, so the values they give are very low. As I'm sure you've seen on there there are folks that keep amazing reefs at 0 PO4 and some at 0.2. Personally I prefer my P04 to be at least .05ish because with a small tank (20gal) anything lower can quickly become zero.

Not sure on how much you can add at once safely but you also have to account for the consumption. Jumping from 0 to .1 in an instant with no consumption is different than dosing .1 when it's continually being used. To put it another way, if I dosed 2 dKH of alkalinity one day it would be disastrous for my tank....but there are people with a similar sized tank that have to do that to keep up with demand. there's always the option of spreading out your dosing to more than once a day as well. Same overall daily increase but less drastic at each instance.
 
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czoolander

czoolander

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What are you using to test your P04?

Algae consumes P04. Do you run chaeto or have any other macro algaes? What about micro algae in your tank?

I use NeoPhos and NeoNitro as well and one thing I noted is that the directions are written for Ultra Low Nutrient systems, so the values they give are very low. As I'm sure you've seen on there there are folks that keep amazing reefs at 0 PO4 and some at 0.2. Personally I prefer my P04 to be at least .05ish because with a small tank (20gal) anything lower can quickly become zero.

Not sure on how much you can add at once safely but you also have to account for the consumption. Jumping from 0 to .1 in an instant with no consumption is different than dosing .1 when it's continually being used. To put it another way, if I dosed 2 dKH of alkalinity one day it would be disastrous for my tank....but there are people with a similar sized tank that have to do that to keep up with demand. there's always the option of spreading out your dosing to more than once a day as well. Same overall daily increase but less drastic at each instance.
I use hanna digital for my P04 testing. The one thing i often wonder about is it says to shake " gently" for 2 minutes and the nitrates says to shake " vigourously" How do you determine what is a gentle or vigourous shake ? haha what if i shake the P04 past gently will this affect the results?

I had a really bad algea out break a year ago and there are still remnants of it in the tank that might be taking up some of the phosphate . I pull the large chunks out by hand and tooth brush off the other stuff but i cant get all of it.

I have tried chaeto in the sump but it never grows and i find it just adds more pests to the tank then it helped with anything so i dont keep macro algea anymore.

I heard also the rocks could be sucking up phosphate ?
 
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czoolander

czoolander

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Much of dosed phosphate can be bound to exposed calcium carbonate surfaces such as rock and sand.

Dose as much as you need to make it detectable. It can be a lot.
So you would say in your opinion i can exceed the amount of 20 ml = 0.04 I could do like 30 ml =0.06 and see what that gives me a day or two later ?

in your opinion what would be the ceiling for P04 before i would worry about algea outbreak in the tank?
 

AFHokie

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I use hanna digital for my P04 testing. The one thing i often wonder about is it says to shake " gently" for 2 minutes and the nitrates says to shake " vigourously" How do you determine what is a gentle or vigourous shake ? haha what if i shake the P04 past gently will this affect the results?

I had a really bad algea out break a year ago and there are still remnants of it in the tank that might be taking up some of the phosphate . I pull the large chunks out by hand and tooth brush off the other stuff but i cant get all of it.

I have tried chaeto in the sump but it never grows and i find it just adds more pests to the tank then it helped with anything so i dont keep macro algea anymore.

I heard also the rocks could be sucking up phosphate ?
I use the Hana as well and also wondered about the shaking step. I was less concerned about the strength than the time. It says 2 minutes or until dissolved. Sometimes my powder looks dissolved at just over 1 minute. So do I call it good or keep going? I usually set a 2 minute timer and keep consistent.

As for the rocks yes, like Dr. RHF said. He's definitely the expert here so if he says it, believe it.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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So you would say in your opinion i can exceed the amount of 20 ml = 0.04 I could do like 30 ml =0.06 and see what that gives me a day or two later ?

in your opinion what would be the ceiling for P04 before i would worry about algea outbreak in the tank?

Of course you can dose more if the test is accurate.

One member did a test on bare dry rock and it took MANY ppm of phosphate before it got to a significant level in the tank.

Algae will potentially begin as soon as there is enough N and P to lift that growth limitation, but that lifting also applies to corals, so its not a good way to prevent algae in all circumstances. I'd like to see at least 0.02 ppm phosphate 24 h after dosing.
 
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czoolander

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I use the Hana as well and also wondered about the shaking step. I was less concerned about the strength than the time. It says 2 minutes or until dissolved. Sometimes my powder looks dissolved at just over 1 minute. So do I call it good or keep going? I usually set a 2 minute timer and keep consistent.

As for the rocks yes, like Dr. RHF said. He's definitely the expert here so if he says it, believe it.
The test kits in this industry have so much room for improvement
 
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czoolander

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Of course you can dose more if the test is accurate.

One member did a test on bare dry rock and it took MANY ppm of phosphate before it got to a significant level in the tank.

Algae will potentially begin as soon as there is enough N and P to lift that growth limitation, but that lifting also applies to corals, so its not a good way to prevent algae in all circumstances. I'd like to see at least 0.02 ppm phosphate 24 h after dosing.
Ok . I will try upping the dosage until i am consistantly reading 0.02 PO4 on the test.

i was wondering too does time of day matter for dosing P04 neophos ? I usually test and dose when i arrive from work about 1-2 hours before the lights go out on the tank. I was thinking is my dosing just feeding potential algea or the exisiting algea in my tank if the corals are all closed up and not " feeding" with the lights out?

Should i dose in the morning instead 1-2 hours before the lights come on ?

Am i over thinking this or is there something to time of day for when you dose ?
 
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czoolander

czoolander

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I'm not sure timing matters much, or if it does, I'm not sure how.
Would be interesting to know if dosing if it changes the consumption rate of PO4 during daytime or nighttime ? and if so what in the tank is doing most of the consumption during night time or day time?

Sounds like a fun project for the BRS team haha
 
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