Can the toxins from zoas actually kill you?

[fishywishy]

My family is worried about me getting zoas because there toxic, can the toxins actually kill you?

 

[workhz]

I’ve had zoas and palys ooze a little in the tank when I accidentally pulled a frag and tore a few of them that were connected to both the frag rack and the frag. I got some long shoulder length gloves off Amazon that I use for most stuff now. The regular nitrile or latex gloves would always get water in them no matter what I did.

 

[Pankney72]

I’m not 100% sure but believe this was from getting Paly juice on my face.

Week prior to these pics I did a WC and rearranged my corals, some Paly colonies and Zoas. Mid week I developed what I thought was a bad pimple. Couple days later it grew into a puss dripping cavity.

So on 10/28 I went to the doctor which took some cultures, gave me antibiotics and antiviral slots not knowing the cause. (ended up inconclusive as to what this was) Progressively got worse from then and two days later 10/30 had a hammer banning headache, chills, and my eye swelled shut. Wife took me to ER 11:30 that evening. Lots of test and more meds. Took awhile to heal up and have a scar similar to 10/29 pic from the ordeal.

After all this, was reading a reef article and saw a YouTube mentioning Paly poisoning. Article: Strongly recommended those of us in the Reef Hobby with Palys and Zoas tell your doctor so it is on file in case you go or are taken to the hospital. YouTube: Guy said he has scaring on his face from not taking proper precautions when handling Palys & Zoas. Another lesson learned.

Wear protective gear: Glasses and gloves. Don’t touch your face. Lesson learned the hard way

That's silly.

1.) There is no test for Palytoxin or established level of toxicity for illness in humans. So there actually has been no definitive cases of Palytoxin. Our case of the gentleman boiling Palys is probably palytoxin but it's still a diagnosis of exclusion unless I'm misremembering the case.

2.)Palytoxin inhibits a common ion channel in cells. It isn't corrosive. That is a blistering full/partial thickness burn from heat or a caustic chemical. If Palytoxin did that much physical damage it would kill the coral too.

3.) Please don't tell your tell your doctor you keep Palys or zoas in case you're one of the very very very few people maybe possibly actually affected by it. He/she won't care because there is no test, and there is no antidote. You will be treated by standard of care supportive medicine for your symptoms... whatever they happen to be.

I've been keeping zoas for 15 years. Working in the tank barehanded. If reefkeepers kept winding up in the hospital because of this hobby we wouldn't still be asking this question on threads. We would all know the answer and probably not be able to buy zoas anymore.

It's fine. Use common sense and let what you're comfortable with guide you and you'll be fine. Promise.

 

[Parsely]

Interesting,

I’ve had zoas and palys ooze a little in the tank when I accidentally pulled a frag and tore a few of them that were connected to both the frag rack and the frag. I got some long shoulder length gloves off Amazon that I use for most stuff now. The regular nitrile or latex gloves would always get water in them no matter what I did.

I’ll have to get those, mine always get water in them as well

 

[i cant think]

My family is worried about me getting zoas because there toxic, can the toxins actually kill you?

I wouldn’t worry about it.
There are so many more things in your reef that can kill you and are just as risky. I mean, if you have a cut and put your hand in the tank, some of the bacteria you find is just nasty.

Not all soft corals are toxic to humans but all corals can cause warfare and some will release toxins that can risk killing the neighbouring corals whilst most will just sting their neighbours.

As others have said;
Palytoxins and other toxins can be avoided if you wear gloves in a reef (If you have venomous fish, you likely do this already), be careful when dragging Zoas/Palys and, I don’t know why I’m saying this but… don’t boil your zoanthids, they don’t taste nice in stews.

 

[Parsely]

That's silly.

1.) There is no test for Palytoxin or established level of toxicity for illness in humans. So there actually has been no definitive cases of Palytoxin. Our case of the gentleman boiling Palys is probably palytoxin but it's still a diagnosis of exclusion unless I'm misremembering the case.

2.)Palytoxin inhibits a common ion channel in cells. It isn't corrosive. That is a blistering full/partial thickness burn from heat or a caustic chemical. If Palytoxin did that much physical damage it would kill the coral too.

3.) Please don't tell your tell your doctor you keep Palys or zoas in case you're one of the very very very few people maybe possibly actually affected by it. He/she won't care because there is no test, and there is no antidote. You will be treated by standard of care supportive medicine for your symptoms... whatever they happen to be.

I've been keeping zoas for 15 years. Working in the tank barehanded. If reefkeepers kept winding up in the hospital because of this hobby we wouldn't still be asking this question on threads. We would all know the answer and probably not be able to buy zoas anymore.

It's fine. Use common sense and let what you're comfortable with guide you and you'll be fine. Promise.

Do you think it’s possible for a zoa that got irritated while in the tank to have the Palytoxin somehow get airborne?

 

[Tired]

Not by any reasonable means. Particularly not a zoa, given that a lot of those are minorly or not at all toxic.

Brown slime from a zoa is probably poo, anyway.

 

[Parsely]

Not by any reasonable means. Particularly not a zoa, given that a lot of those are minorly or not at all toxic.

Brown slime from a zoa is probably poo, anyway.

Thank you for the reassurance

 

[Pankney72]

Do you think it’s possible for a zoa that got irritated while in the tank to have the Palytoxin somehow get airborne?

Very very unlikely. (I never say "No" with certainty or I would say "No" here) Palytoxin is what some us in the biochemical/molecular biology field would call a very big organic molecule. Organic meaning being mostly comprised of carbon bonds, not "biologic."

Palytoxin, if it existed in your tank, is a highly potent poison. Which means that the coral in question doesn't need to make more than a tiny bit for it to work. Which means hypothetically, that tiny amount of toxin in the zoa would then be further diluted into all the tank water. On top of that molecules of this size and general structure are not usually considered to be volatile under standard conditions.

So the molecule would have to randomly find it's way from the zoa/paly, to the surface of the water, and then find itself endowed with enough energy to vaporize, and then find it's way to you. Also keep in mind this poison inhibits a one of many tiny electrical currents on the surface of each of your cells. Although very potent when compared to other poisons, it would take way more than one molecule to have an effect.


A final thought: the ion channels targeted by palytoxin exist on all complex life. If secreting toxin during stress was part of Palys defense mechanisms, your fish would be dead way before you, and a stupid emerald crab probably wouldn't randomly decide to chomp down on them if he got hungry.