fishywishy
Well-Known Member
My family is worried about me getting zoas because there toxic, can the toxins actually kill you?
Can the toxins from zoas actually kill you?
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RedFrog211
Valuable Member
Certainly wear protection when handling them, but they do not pose a threat unless you remove a toxic strain from the water and start irritating it. I hope you are fully healed @Jim Gomoll; that looks rough. I am no expert on Palytoxin, but I have never heard of it causing necrosis at the site of infection. Most common symptoms consist of headache, soreness and in extreme cases, difficulty breathing.
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mfinn
likes zoanthids
Yeah I remember several decades ago I went into a hole in the wall store and this old guy was working ( owner) and he had several scars on his arms that looked like that and he said it was from infections he had gotten when scratched on live rock. After talking with him I was always careful to take care of skin breaks and my tanks.
I've gotten a couple small ones over the years but it never got bad.
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liddojunior
Well-Known Member
It depends on species. I believe most Zoas and palys don’t have high levels of toxins.
But I recall it’s the paly Grandis that is the reason for the reputation. It’s the most toxic of the palys that you can buy
I have one and don’t think I’ll ever risk fragging
But I recall it’s the paly Grandis that is the reason for the reputation. It’s the most toxic of the palys that you can buy
I have one and don’t think I’ll ever risk fragging
Palythoa grandis - Sun Polyps are Our Favorite Zoanthids! | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog
Palythoa grandis, also known as the Sun Polyp (not to be confused with sun coral), is a distinctive species of very large zoanthids which we have cherished for years. These unmistakable zoanthids are…
reefbuilders.com
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Lovefish77
Well-Known Member
I had a friend of mine who couldnt breathe properly for 2 days. To be honest, once I realized how dangerous they are I took them out and bleached the hell out of them and I dont touch them anymore, dont buy them or get corals from a tank that has zoas.
This is a hobby to enjoy, why risk anything?
Plus there are a lot more prettier corals with NO risk at all.
This is a hobby to enjoy, why risk anything?
Plus there are a lot more prettier corals with NO risk at all.
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SaltyPotato
Community Member
Ask this guy..
But no, nearly everyone jokes about Zoas and Polys in the reefing community. But hey, enjoy doing some routine maintenance that might lead to dying or going blind lol.
Some are obsessed, I always found them to be seriously ugly and an eye sore in a tank, especially Polys. But beginners should not be sold these in my opinion without being explicitly told the risks. I imagine most reef stores say eh, just wash your hands, which is dangerous IMO.
But no, nearly everyone jokes about Zoas and Polys in the reefing community. But hey, enjoy doing some routine maintenance that might lead to dying or going blind lol.
Some are obsessed, I always found them to be seriously ugly and an eye sore in a tank, especially Polys. But beginners should not be sold these in my opinion without being explicitly told the risks. I imagine most reef stores say eh, just wash your hands, which is dangerous IMO.
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I wrote a nice full history about Zoa toxins a few years back. Check it out!
Palytoxin: The History, Pharmacology, and How to Protect Yourself
Palytoxin: The History, Pharmacology, and How to Protect Yourself
www.reef2reef.com
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I feel the problem with these palytoxin threads is they're generally not an attempt to get the answer, but are an attempt to confirm someone's desired answer. The problem with the internet is it's full of information; so much information and anecdotes that you can find data and views that confirm the view you want to have.
If you want to confirm that palytoxin in zoas and palys isn't a big deal, you'll find anecdotes about people cutting them with no gloves for years with no problems. You'll also find info that says it's mostly on certain kinds, and varying levels of toxicity.
If you want to confirm that it is a big deal, you'll find examples of people going partially blind, getting hospitalized, and having their pets die from it. You'll also find information that says it's across many varieties, no one knows which, and it's likely not that individual species have it and others don't, but that individuals acquire it from other things and it's as much a product of their history as their genetics.
There's certainly truth in all this, and really you need to decide what you care about. If you're risk averse on this, and the idea of accidentally causing major health issues by bringing an extremely dangerous toxin producer into your house seems crazy, you're likely not going to want to keep them. If you're risk tolerant on this, and you think they look pretty enough that the benefits are high, then you'll keep them and maybe be cautious when going in your tank.
For me, I've kept them in the past but don't find the risk worth it now. I've had metallic tastes in my mouth for days after working in my tank, a club-mate lose their dog after it ate a week old frag they dropped (it doesn't degrade, the dog died a bloody mess), and read enough articles about it being environment based, that it feels silly to keep them in my house, especially having kids. I don't disparage others that have tanks full of them, and I think they do look cool.
Be honest with yourselves on what you want, and go from there. There's not new information to find; it's a decision to make.
If you want to confirm that palytoxin in zoas and palys isn't a big deal, you'll find anecdotes about people cutting them with no gloves for years with no problems. You'll also find info that says it's mostly on certain kinds, and varying levels of toxicity.
If you want to confirm that it is a big deal, you'll find examples of people going partially blind, getting hospitalized, and having their pets die from it. You'll also find information that says it's across many varieties, no one knows which, and it's likely not that individual species have it and others don't, but that individuals acquire it from other things and it's as much a product of their history as their genetics.
There's certainly truth in all this, and really you need to decide what you care about. If you're risk averse on this, and the idea of accidentally causing major health issues by bringing an extremely dangerous toxin producer into your house seems crazy, you're likely not going to want to keep them. If you're risk tolerant on this, and you think they look pretty enough that the benefits are high, then you'll keep them and maybe be cautious when going in your tank.
For me, I've kept them in the past but don't find the risk worth it now. I've had metallic tastes in my mouth for days after working in my tank, a club-mate lose their dog after it ate a week old frag they dropped (it doesn't degrade, the dog died a bloody mess), and read enough articles about it being environment based, that it feels silly to keep them in my house, especially having kids. I don't disparage others that have tanks full of them, and I think they do look cool.
Be honest with yourselves on what you want, and go from there. There's not new information to find; it's a decision to make.
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Palythoas more likely and more toxic than zoas. And yes, palytoxins can kill you. Also potentially long term damage. But even mild poisoning can put you in the emergency room. And at the very least leave you feeling pretty lousy for 24-48 hours or more.
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Yes but so can bleach if you drink it.
What I mean to say is... yes but they can't just jump out of the tank and get you nor can you die because you put your hand in the tank. Just do not eat them, rub them in your eyes, boil them and inhale the steam, or inject them into your veins and it isn't a huge concern. It is ofc possible for you to have an allergic reaction.
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I would not keep palys (or even any coral really) in a small nano if there are young children who can reach into the tank, etc.
Young children may be playing and then put their hands in their mouth or rub their eyes, etc.
So that is not to say you should not be cautious but we also lock up bleach and chemicals when young children are around.
Basically you should take reasonable precautions if you keep coral (not just palys but they are certainly the worst) based on your situation which may mean child proofing tanks or it may mean wearing gloves when you handle rock.
Young children may be playing and then put their hands in their mouth or rub their eyes, etc.
So that is not to say you should not be cautious but we also lock up bleach and chemicals when young children are around.
Basically you should take reasonable precautions if you keep coral (not just palys but they are certainly the worst) based on your situation which may mean child proofing tanks or it may mean wearing gloves when you handle rock.
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By the way.. some cyanobacteria and dino strains also create poison from the palytoxin family.
This is likley why sometimes a tank crashed when they treat with chemi clean... their strain started to die and palytoxin nuked the tank. Also probably why some snails die eating dino.
So don't think you are 100% clear because you don't keep palys.
This is likley why sometimes a tank crashed when they treat with chemi clean... their strain started to die and palytoxin nuked the tank. Also probably why some snails die eating dino.
So don't think you are 100% clear because you don't keep palys.
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CaseyWagner
Active Member
This is what you're thinking of. Around that time another person got severely ill after boiling his reef rock.
If I'm going to sanitize rock I take out outside, put it in a tub with hydrochloric acid (diluted) and let it sit anywhere from 30 minutes to a couple of hours depending on the solution. You lose a bit of mass, but you get clean rock and you're not releasing vapor indoors.
Toxic coral spores likely poisoned SA family of seven
Cleaning household coral with a scrubbing brush is suspected of putting a South Australian family in hospital.
www.abc.net.au
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That would be it. Didnt know it was 56 years ago.This is what you're thinking of. Around that time another person got severely ill after boiling his reef rock.
If I'm going to sanitize rock I take out outside, put it in a tub with hydrochloric acid (diluted) and let it sit anywhere from 30 minutes to a couple of hours depending on the solution. You lose a bit of mass, but you get clean rock and you're not releasing vapor indoors.
Toxic coral spores likely poisoned SA family of seven
Cleaning household coral with a scrubbing brush is suspected of putting a South Australian family in hospital.
I'll admit to not using gloves handling my zoa. But then I's not fragged any. Yet
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Boreas_SA
Active Member
Anecdotally when we were kids and playing in the rock pools on our East coast, we always walked on the zoa and paly colonies, as they were the softest spots to not hurt your feet (compared to mussels etc.). And pretty sure there were cuts on our feet sometimes from all the rockpool exploring, but never got sick. Not sure if they have to be heavily stressed to release the toxin perhaps (like boiling rock).
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