Cannot win green algae battle

[NewRobert]

Good Day,

I have been battling green-hair-algae for years in my tank and I am at a complete loss as to what to try.

Tank Size: 500l
NO3: Hovering around 25. With large water changes can bring it down to 10, but goes right back up to 25 again.
PO4: Usually 0, I use Phosguard to keep it low.

Things I have tried:

1. Large Water Changes - 50% weekly, did not help
2. Manual removal - siphoning off what I can and scrubbing the rocks with a metal brush - it always just comes back
3. I got 3 sea-hares, none of them lasted more than 2 weeks.
4. Tried adding a lot of snails - they die quickly too.
5. Added a desjardinii and foxface - the fox died, I replaced him again and it has helped, but they can't keep it under control
6. Changed from using filter-pads to a roller-matt instead
7. Got a biopellet reactor on lfs recommendation. Using 200ml of Continuum micro-fuel pellets and doing a daily dose of 20ml of Bacter MD, hasn't made a difference (been running for 7 weeks now).
8. Dosing continuum Bacter Clean-m daily (20ml), helps loosen the GHA for manual removal but doesn't really make a long term difference
9. Stopped using lights in the room the tank is in and kept the curtains shut for months - no difference
10. Limit tank lighting (4 x T5 Tubes) to 4 hours a day (2 hours only blue, 2 hours blue and white), hasn't really helped
11. Hooked up a large external drum with filter padding and a return pump so I could siphon out GHA without having to replace the water, hasn't managed to bring it under control
12. Siphoned out the sump every week when I did water changes, hasn't improved
13. I have removed the rocks, scrubbed them off in the bacter clean-m and put them back a few months ago, was clean for a few days and came back.
14. Got a convict tang but he didn't last very long either.

Livestock:

2 x Clowns, 1 x Desjardinii, 1 x Foxface, 1 x Blue Tang, 1 x Chromis, 1 x Bangai Cardinal, 4 x Shrimp, 3 x Urchins, 1 x Sand sifting goby

I usually feed about 3/4 cube of frozen food once a day. I've tried switching to ocean nutrition combo but hasn't made a difference and pretty sure I am under-feeding

I run UV 24 hours a day through one of the returns (I have 2). I use Seachem Matrix Carbon and Seachem Phosguard, but stopped putting it in in the re-actors because it just made a mess and got clogged, currently just in filter bag in sump.

I am trying to get close to 0/0 on the NO3/PO4 just to starve the algae out because I don't know what else to do but cannot get there no matter what I try.

Can anyone think of anything that I can try? Or alternatively what they would've done maybe if it was their tank. The tank is about 5 years old and went through one relocation. The problem was there before the move.

I am close to letting it go as it has become this unpleasant unconquerable thing that is costing a fortune with no real gains or progress for years now and desperate to find a solution. I am not the kind of person to give up, but this is going nowhere good whatsoever and it has been years.

I was considering getting a refugium but the lfs convinced me that biopellets would be simpler/easier and just work. I am going to try and get 3 more urchins tomorrow as they seem to do okay in my tank and the ones I currently have do help a bit. I don't mind spending a bit of $ but it has been $ 400 a month now for a while with really no difference. Occasionally I can get one rock clean but give it a week and it is right back covered in green.

Please help with suggestions if you can

 

[reefchi]

no expert here but curious does your urchin help with eating some of the algae after doing a clean up?

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Simply put your export measures are not up to snuff and you need more grazers.
Something must be way of with your implementation of biological and mechanical export measures as the amount of food you add is minuscule and you somehow end up with very high no3 numbers…your actual no3 will be higher as the algae is acting like an in-tank refugium and you’re only measuring available nitrates in the water column.

A thing that sticks out is that your skimmer looks small. An effective skimmer is vital when carbon dosing as skimming out the bacteria produced is a large part of how it all works to reduce nutrients.

I also find that if I crash po4 or no3 the breakdown of the other slows significantly.

 

[MBruun]

I was struggeling both GHA and RTA for loooong time, having close to 95% of the rockwork covered in algaes.
Daily doses of live phyto was the cure for my tank
I dosed like 1:1000 of the total water volume daily, and after a 2 - 3 months I was back on track, and after 2 more months the algaes was almost gone. I also added one large amount of copepods .

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

What is the water source? Frankly I would be concerned about those fish and invert deaths! Did you ever figure out a cause?

Is the water properly oxygenated?

Do you overfeed? I believe that rotting food is the biggest culprit for algae growth.

 

[Jekyl]

I don't see a single CuC in the picture. Also concerning that an established tank doesn't have any coraline.

I would get a cleaner package from reefcleaners.org and ask are you using RODI?

 

[Baby Damsel 219]

Time to bring in the tang gang. Maybe put less lighting for shorter periods. Also, lower CO2 levels.

 

[Baby Damsel 219]

get a yellow tang from the biota website.

 

[Naekuh]

At this point id bring in the hardcore cannons and go Algae Turf Scrubber.
But if you don't monitor the scrubbing and water chemistry carefully, that green will turn into red cyano, once the ATS has scrubbed all your nitrate and phosph.

 

[theMeat]

Few things that help
Get coraline to grow. Where coralline grows gha has a harder time taking hold.
Cover your tank with something and turn off all tank lights for three days. This won’t get rid of it all but will definitely help. Then do a big water change.
Obviously get your phosphates up and your nitrates down

 

[NewRobert]

no expert here but curious does your urchin help with eating some of the algae after doing a clean up?

They do actually tend to help clean off the rocks as they go

Simply put your export measures are not up to snuff and you need more grazers.
Something must be way of with your implementation of biological and mechanical export measures as the amount of food you add is minuscule and you somehow end up with very high no3 numbers…your actual no3 will be higher as the algae is acting like an in-tank refugium and you’re only measuring available nitrates in the water column.

A thing that sticks out is that your skimmer looks small. An effective skimmer is vital when carbon dosing as skimming out the bacteria produced is a large part of how it all works to reduce nutrients.

I also find that if I crash po4 or no3 the breakdown of the other slows significantly.

The skimmer is on the small side, it is a BM-C3.5 that I got with the tank. I have considered upgrading that, do you think it would make a big difference? What would you possibly recommend?

I did remove the Phosguard out of the sump for the last few days when I read that bio-pellets and GFO is a problem too. Is it possible because of my 0 po4 that could have made the last 6 weeks of biopellets do nothing?

I was struggeling both GHA and RTA for loooong time, having close to 95% of the rockwork covered in algaes.
Daily doses of live phyto was the cure for my tank
I dosed like 1:1000 of the total water volume daily, and after a 2 - 3 months I was back on track, and after 2 more months the algaes was almost gone. I also added one large amount of copepods .

Copepods is something that I have considered to try. I do have some phyto-blast from continuum I will try that thank you

What is the water source? Frankly I would be concerned about those fish and invert deaths! Did you ever figure out a cause?

Is the water properly oxygenated?

Do you overfeed? I believe that rotting food is the biggest culprit for algae growth.

Water source is home RO/DI system, TDS reads 0. I didn't quarantine the fish because I really got them to try and kill this problem. Never figured out the problem. The fox was struggling to eat from day one and found him glued to the wavemaker 3 or 4 weeks after I got him. I shut the one side down and he drifted into the anemone which finished him off. The inverts? Absolutely no idea. Thought low KH but I managed to keep that around 7 or so. I definitely don't overfeed at all. I took the canopy off the tank, glass covers off and have a wavemaker close to the top to try and keep oxygenation ok.

I don't see a single CuC in the picture. Also concerning that an established tank doesn't have any coraline.

I would get a cleaner package from reefcleaners.org and ask are you using RODI?

Using RODI. There are 4 shrimps in the tank, 3 urchins. The snails died. I am scared of the crabs. I can look at adding more CuC, can you perhaps make a suggestion of what you would add as CUC for this tank particularly?

Yes using RODI, 0 TDS (replaced the filters even though it was at 0 TDS just in case)

Thank you all so far

 

[NewRobert]

Few things that help
Get coraline to grow. Where coralline grows gha has a harder time taking hold.
Cover your tank with something and turn off all tank lights for three days. This won’t get rid of it all but will definitely help. Then do a big water change.
Obviously get your phosphates up and your nitrates down

Will doing a 3 day black-out harm any of the anemones or mushrooms and the kenya tree in there or won't this be an issue and I shouldn't worry?

At this point id bring in the hardcore cannons and go Algae Turf Scrubber.
But if you don't monitor the scrubbing and water chemistry carefully, that green will turn into red cyano, once the ATS has scrubbed all your nitrate and phosph.

I have considered this too instead of the refugium idea I originally had. They're quite hard to find here locally maybe would be worth it importing

Thank you all so far

 

[Sophie"s mom]

Good Day,

I have been battling green-hair-algae for years in my tank and I am at a complete loss as to what to try.

Tank Size: 500l
NO3: Hovering around 25. With large water changes can bring it down to 10, but goes right back up to 25 again.
PO4: Usually 0, I use Phosguard to keep it low.

Things I have tried:

1. Large Water Changes - 50% weekly, did not help
2. Manual removal - siphoning off what I can and scrubbing the rocks with a metal brush - it always just comes back
3. I got 3 sea-hares, none of them lasted more than 2 weeks.
4. Tried adding a lot of snails - they die quickly too.
5. Added a desjardinii and foxface - the fox died, I replaced him again and it has helped, but they can't keep it under control
6. Changed from using filter-pads to a roller-matt instead
7. Got a biopellet reactor on lfs recommendation. Using 200ml of Continuum micro-fuel pellets and doing a daily dose of 20ml of Bacter MD, hasn't made a difference (been running for 7 weeks now).
8. Dosing continuum Bacter Clean-m daily (20ml), helps loosen the GHA for manual removal but doesn't really make a long term difference
9. Stopped using lights in the room the tank is in and kept the curtains shut for months - no difference
10. Limit tank lighting (4 x T5 Tubes) to 4 hours a day (2 hours only blue, 2 hours blue and white), hasn't really helped
11. Hooked up a large external drum with filter padding and a return pump so I could siphon out GHA without having to replace the water, hasn't managed to bring it under control
12. Siphoned out the sump every week when I did water changes, hasn't improved
13. I have removed the rocks, scrubbed them off in the bacter clean-m and put them back a few months ago, was clean for a few days and came back.
14. Got a convict tang but he didn't last very long either.

Livestock:

2 x Clowns, 1 x Desjardinii, 1 x Foxface, 1 x Blue Tang, 1 x Chromis, 1 x Bangai Cardinal, 4 x Shrimp, 3 x Urchins, 1 x Sand sifting goby

I usually feed about 3/4 cube of frozen food once a day. I've tried switching to ocean nutrition combo but hasn't made a difference and pretty sure I am under-feeding

I run UV 24 hours a day through one of the returns (I have 2). I use Seachem Matrix Carbon and Seachem Phosguard, but stopped putting it in in the re-actors because it just made a mess and got clogged, currently just in filter bag in sump.

I am trying to get close to 0/0 on the NO3/PO4 just to starve the algae out because I don't know what else to do but cannot get there no matter what I try.

Can anyone think of anything that I can try? Or alternatively what they would've done maybe if it was their tank. The tank is about 5 years old and went through one relocation. The problem was there before the move.

I am close to letting it go as it has become this unpleasant unconquerable thing that is costing a fortune with no real gains or progress for years now and desperate to find a solution. I am not the kind of person to give up, but this is going nowhere good whatsoever and it has been years.

I was considering getting a refugium but the lfs convinced me that biopellets would be simpler/easier and just work. I am going to try and get 3 more urchins tomorrow as they seem to do okay in my tank and the ones I currently have do help a bit. I don't mind spending a bit of $ but it has been $ 400 a month now for a while with really no difference. Occasionally I can get one rock clean but give it a week and it is right back covered in green.

Please help with suggestions if you can

My Pitho crabs are algae eating fiends! Try some of them as part of your CUC. I have very little now, so I have to supplement their eating with some nori.

 

[Jekyl]

They do actually tend to help clean off the rocks as they go



The skimmer is on the small side, it is a BM-C3.5 that I got with the tank. I have considered upgrading that, do you think it would make a big difference? What would you possibly recommend?

I did remove the Phosguard out of the sump for the last few days when I read that bio-pellets and GFO is a problem too. Is it possible because of my 0 po4 that could have made the last 6 weeks of biopellets do nothing?



Copepods is something that I have considered to try. I do have some phyto-blast from continuum I will try that thank you



Water source is home RO/DI system, TDS reads 0. I didn't quarantine the fish because I really got them to try and kill this problem. Never figured out the problem. The fox was struggling to eat from day one and found him glued to the wavemaker 3 or 4 weeks after I got him. I shut the one side down and he drifted into the anemone which finished him off. The inverts? Absolutely no idea. Thought low KH but I managed to keep that around 7 or so. I definitely don't overfeed at all. I took the canopy off the tank, glass covers off and have a wavemaker close to the top to try and keep oxygenation ok.



Using RODI. There are 4 shrimps in the tank, 3 urchins. The snails died. I am scared of the crabs. I can look at adding more CuC, can you perhaps make a suggestion of what you would add as CUC for this tank particularly?

Yes using RODI, 0 TDS (replaced the filters even though it was at 0 TDS just in case)

Thank you all so far

Go to reefcleaners.org and order a package for your tank size. Make sure to follow their acclimation procedure included in shipping.

 

[theMeat]

Will doing a 3 day black-out harm any of the anemones or mushrooms and the kenya tree in there or won't this be an issue and I shouldn't worry?



I have considered this too instead of the refugium idea I originally had. They're quite hard to find here locally maybe would be worth it importing

Thank you all so far

Have done it a few times with no ill effects to coral. Macro algae also survives

You can find ats on brs, Amazon, and whatnot. Not cheap. Could build a diy

If you go to reef cleaners . Com as op mentioned would recommend half their recommended amount.

 

[Biokabe]

Go to reefcleaners.org and order a package for your tank size. Make sure to follow their acclimation procedure included in shipping.

Notice OP's location. They're in South Africa. Reef Cleaners might not be an option for them.

OP, I second the concerns about all your deaths. Frankly, it's abnormal, and it seems to be the common theme here: You identify a critter that could help, but it dies before it can do anything. My guess is that you're badly underfeeding your tank, and your animals are starving to death before they can get established enough to start attacking your GHA.

Because, based on how I've seen animals behave in my tanks, GHA is rather unpalatable - especially longer GHA. The only things I've ever seen eat it are emerald crabs, my tomini tang, and turbo/astrea snails. None of them treat GHA as a primary food source, and the longer the algae, the more likely they are to leave it alone.

So I might try to step up how much you're feeding - maybe go from 3/4 cube to a full cube.

Other things you can try:

Fluconazole. This is predominantly used for treating bryopsis, and it looks like your algae is more of the generic GHA rather than bryopsis, but some species of bryopsis do look a lot like GHA from a distance. There's a massive thread about using it on this forum, and if you can get fluco in SA, it's worth giving it a shot. Just be prepared for a massive water change once you finish it, because if it works the dead algae will release a ton of nutrients into the water - enough to fuel a cyano bloom.

Another possibility is H2O2 dosing, either broadcast or targeted. I've used this myself with some success; I prefer targeted dosing myself, but either can work. Just make sure you get food-grade H2O2, as the additives in some formulations can be toxic to marine life. Broadcast-dosing, you just measure it out and add it to the tank (sometimes with the skimmer turned off). For targeted dosing, get a little blunt-tip syringe and apply the H2O2 directly to a patch of algae.

Either way, the H2O2 will soften and "burn" the algae. This is particularly useful on longer strands, as it will often weaken the anchor and make it easier for you to manually remove the patch, including the "roots". Shorter strands are easier for your CUC to eat, so if you can knock it back then your CUC can finish the job.

Just don't go crazy with H2O2 on any given day. I believe the recommended dose is something like 1ml per 35L of water. I go higher than that when I target-dose, but I still don't like going much above 2ml per 35L (my tank is 350L, and I'll usually stop my targeted dosing once I've put about 20 ml into my tank).

 

[Sophie"s mom]

Have done it a few times with no ill effects to coral. Macro algae also survives

You can find ats on brs, Amazon, and whatnot. Not cheap. Could build a diy

If you go to reef cleaners . Com as op mentioned would recommend half their recommended amount.

Very true on the 1/2 recommendation!

 

[exnisstech]

How do you have clean sand? Thats something I've never been able to accomplish especially when I had algae issues. I finally gave up and went all bare bottom.

 

[NewRobert]

Afternoon all,

I tested my saltwater mix last night (it's been in the bin for two weeks) and NO3 is reading 0 on there so it isn't the salt mix / waterchange water that is causing the problem.

From all of the advice and comments and doing a little research, this is what I have done so far:

1. I believe that my cleanup crew is greatly undersized. I have added another 3 urchins and one large snail (all that was available at shop). I will go hunting for more.

2. My skimmer is definitely undersized. I took my bigger skimmer out of my other tank (that is maintaining 0 nitrates) and managed to squeeze it into the return chamber of this tank's sump and will run it for a few days to see if that makes a difference. Only place I could fit it in with the current sump. This is Mantis Tornado 150 or 180 I forget which, but DC pump driven so it is a bit easier to control and get effective (at least I had much better luck in my other tank)

3. I lifted the lights up another 2 inches and shut down the 2 white tubes and will only run the blues for now.

4. I did another round of manual removal by siphoning off the rocks, running the water through filter floss sandwiched between 2 filter pads and pumping it back into the tank and with this did a 10% water change.

Nitrates still at 25. Will measure again in 24 hours to see if the big DC skimmer makes a difference. If it does help I am going to have to figure out how I can modify the sump to support this skimmer.

 

[officialreefbros]

I had a horrible time with it as well. Not saying it's the best method but what fimally worked for me was getting my nutrients in check, lots of snails and then bluelife Flux RX. The other fluconazole treatments did nothing