Cant get high nitrates down

[W1ngz]

Yeah I've tested right after a change... no change at all. I put the bottle 2 through the ringer. I shake it punch it throw it into a busy highway, used it for baseball practice and no change. So yeah it might be a bad test kit.. I've honestly only ever saw it 0 and 40 after a few months of owning it.. there is crystallization in the cap of 2
What brand should I do

The Salifert one is pretty good, and there's no violent shaking or throwing of bottles to do Plus it has a high and low range scale so you can get a more accurate reading when it's under 10.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

So my 20g reef has had high nitrates for some reason. My protein skimmer failed for about 5 days without me knowing and that caused a buildup of nitrates. My nitrates read about 40ppm
I've reduced feeding to help prevent more but I also have my skimmer back working again but it will not drop.
I have a diatom outbreak in low flow areas that wont clear up
I added a refugium a week ago (no effect but I assume it will take longer to actually have an effect)
I see no detritus build up anywhere because I did 3 water changes this week with ahsolutly no drop in nitrates
And finally I notice no stress on any of my corals, just diatoms.

Any ideas? Will the refugium help?(I have a baseball size chunk of chaeto) more water changes? Skimmer might lower it? (Even though skimmers only remove things before they break down) should I dose vodka/vinegar or anything?

Odd that it didn’t reduce from water changes and reduced feeding. (API is great for nitrates and many use it for that, cause it’s fast and accurate enough)

Idk how big your water changes were but if your at say 50 and reading it as say 40 while only doing say 25% changes you may also read say 30 as 40 then add in still feeding and this could be your issue. API is great to about 20 and after you get into those deeper oranges and reds it’s hard to tell apart. If it’s a major issue and things are dying I’d do a 50% just to make a decent dent in it and try and get out of that color scaling on the api and see if there is a bigger issue somewhere.

Outside that increase lighting in the fuge to 18h till back under control.

If you’re not seeing a deduction after these two things or in a few days it’s creeping up again.. then you need to start cleaning too to bottom tank and sump. I always keep some purigen around for spikes or failures. It won’t remove organics like a skimmer will after they are in the water but it will strip them before they can start breaking down. Works very similar to a skimmer really but imop much more efficient. It’s also a good backup should your skimmer fail down the road too. It’s more a preventative measure to keep from spiking rather then a solution to it. Only water changes will bring it down once’s it’s already in the tank and measurable skimmers work very similar. They are only able to strip the organics to a certain point. Once you’re measuring them in a test kit the skimmer isn’t really going to remove them rather prevent them from climbing more. It will remove some but off still adding to the tank with food and waste etc.. it’s going to have a hard time reducing unless it 2x recommenced tank size and seeing how you have a 20g You likely have a nano skimmer and they are not as effective. Reduce 20% nutrients maybe? Vs a full size getting about 30 maybe 40% out.

My guess though is your just missing the color scaling of the api kit though based on what your saying. In a few days you should see growth on the cheato.. do you? It will be loose strands on the outside clustered towards the light source.. I get about 1” every two days in size with just a 12w all red led light. If your cheato isn’t rolling in the flow then make sure to rotate it every couple days to allow all of it to get light. Otherwise you may end up with the one side dying off some if loght isn’t strong enough which will add back to the tank.

Also another possible issue unrelated.. did you monitor your ph swings while skimmer was down? Skimmers are HUGE for keeping PH stable and I’d be shocked if you didn’t have a massive drop during this time likely adding to some degradation and stress possibly adding more to the tank.

Many won’t support this and think there is some massive shock to your tank.. but if I have any issues I don’t hesitate to do a 90% change to nip it in the butt right at the start. If you dose then dose to the new water and measure it to get it close to what your tank normally runs before adding it. If you just run if salt mix alone then should never be an issue. In fact when I do perform big changes on tanks I usually see a lot of spawning activity immediately following.

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

Odd that it didn’t reduce from water changes and reduced feeding. (API is great for nitrates and many use it for that, cause it’s fast and accurate enough)

Idk how big your water changes were but if your at say 50 and reading it as say 40 while only doing say 25% changes you may also read say 30 as 40 then add in still feeding and this could be your issue. API is great to about 20 and after you get into those deeper oranges and reds it’s hard to tell apart. If it’s a major issue and things are dying I’d do a 50% just to make a decent dent in it and try and get out of that color scaling on the api and see if there is a bigger issue somewhere.

Outside that increase lighting in the fuge to 18h till back under control.

If you’re not seeing a deduction after these two things or in a few days it’s creeping up again.. then you need to start cleaning too to bottom tank and sump. I always keep some purigen around for spikes or failures. It won’t remove organics like a skimmer will after they are in the water but it will strip them before they can start breaking down. Works very similar to a skimmer really but imop much more efficient. It’s also a good backup should your skimmer fail down the road too. It’s more a preventative measure to keep from spiking rather then a solution to it. Only water changes will bring it down once’s it’s already in the tank and measurable skimmers work very similar. They are only able to strip the organics to a certain point. Once you’re measuring them in a test kit the skimmer isn’t really going to remove them rather prevent them from climbing more. It will remove some but off still adding to the tank with food and waste etc.. it’s going to have a hard time reducing unless it 2x recommenced tank size and seeing how you have a 20g You likely have a nano skimmer and they are not as effective. Reduce 20% nutrients maybe? Vs a full size getting about 30 maybe 40% out.

My guess though is your just missing the color scaling of the api kit though based on what your saying. In a few days you should see growth on the cheato.. do you? It will be loose strands on the outside clustered towards the light source.. I get about 1” every two days in size with just a 12w all red led light. If your cheato isn’t rolling in the flow then make sure to rotate it every couple days to allow all of it to get light. Otherwise you may end up with the one side dying off some if loght isn’t strong enough which will add back to the tank.

Also another possible issue unrelated.. did you monitor your ph swings while skimmer was down? Skimmers are HUGE for keeping PH stable and I’d be shocked if you didn’t have a massive drop during this time likely adding to some degradation and stress possibly adding more to the tank.

Many won’t support this and think there is some massive shock to your tank.. but if I have any issues I don’t hesitate to do a 90% change to nip it in the butt right at the start. If you dose then dose to the new water and measure it to get it close to what your tank normally runs before adding it. If you just run if salt mix alone then should never be an issue. In fact when I do perform big changes on tanks I usually see a lot of spawning activity immediately following.

Alot of amazing info.
1st my skimmer is rated for a 100g (all my local fish store carried)
2nd my chateo is nice and vibrant green and may be growing.
I didnt notice a big spike in ph (I run a bubbler in my fuge)
I will try increasing the photo period for the fuge as well

 

[UCF Alum]

FWIW-
40 is fine. I run 35ish no3 and .1 po4 in a thriving acro tank.
Also I have both API and Salifert for no3 testing and they both read the same.
My acros have never looked better than now. I’m done chasing numbers like 2ppm no3 and .02 po4. Have steady alk and you’ll be fine.

PS - I tested WWC water last week when I picked up my Grizzly Adams acro and it was almost 30 no3 and .08 po4. They’re doing something right.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

One last thing.. how long has the tank been established at its current state before this issue?

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

One last thing.. how long has the tank been established at its current state before this issue?

7 months established. The issue has only been about 3 or 4 weeks

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Alot of amazing info.
1st my skimmer is rated for a 100g (all my local fish store carried)
2nd my chateo is nice and vibrant green and may be growing.
I didnt notice a big spike in ph (I run a bubbler in my fuge)
I will try increasing the photo period for the fuge as well

I don’t run skimmers.. I feel they are over priced and under perform. I use turf scrubbing and fuges. Algae’s are not as good at removing po4 as they are nitrates though so I like to pair it when chemipure plue. Placed in the return section after the fuge which picks up the left overs allowing it to last 4-6 months wo changing. That said I constantly modify my fuge lighting to accomidate tank perameters. If I see it creeping I increase from 10-14h and few days later it’s back. If I’m getting too low (normally the case) I reduce lighting to 6-8h and in extreme cases alternate days on and off.

If extreme one way or when new to tank you can run 24h photo period for about 3 days wo issues after that you need to scale it back to keep from burning up the macro. Really it depends on the intensity of the lighting. But even at 24h with low power light it needs a rest once in a while. You’ll just have to monitor it’s health during different lifting times. When done right you’ll be removing that skimmer in few months any never have to worry about that failing again.

If you have a good measure of filtering to prevent macro from entering the tank by any possible means.. the triton method works the best.. a few chalupa leaves and other macros mixed in with the cheato.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Cheato is the least aggressive exporter of macros but the easiest to control do not as big a deal if a piece enters the display as say chalupa which if so and missed will never be able to be removed wo a full year down..

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

7 months established. The issue has only been about 3 or 4 weeks

The reason I asked this is cause this is exactly the time period you could start having issues like this due to what’s referred to as “old tank” syndrome. I don’t know that this is the case though cause with that you’d see a rise in po4 as well. Well beyond what you’re reporting. This is actually another concern for me though cause your ph4 has remained decent while seeing this spike. But 3-4 months of this issue says “old tank” all day. What grain sand do you have in the tank? Have you ever shut down the sump and completely cleaned it out? Is there any bio media’s in the sump?

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

The reason I asked this is cause this is exactly the time period you could start having issues like this due to what’s referred to as “old tank” syndrome. I don’t know that this is the case though cause with that you’d see a rise in po4 as well. Well beyond what you’re reporting. This is actually another concern for me though cause your ph4 has remained decent while seeing this spike. But 3-4 months of this issue says “old tank” all day. What grain sand do you have in the tank? Have you ever shut down the sump and completely cleaned it out? Is there any bio media’s in the sump?

I dont run a sump. Just a hob fuge with ceramic rings and some carbon. I also do caribsea argonite sand. I removed mechanical filtration because I didnt clean my sponge for 2 months and had no spikes in ammonia or nitrate. I repurposed my aquaclear 70 to a refugium

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

FWIW-
40 is fine. I run 35ish no3 and .1 po4 in a thriving acro tank.
Also I have both API and Salifert for no3 testing and they both read the same.
My acros have never looked better than now. I’m done chasing numbers like 2ppm no3 and .02 po4. Have steady alk and you’ll be fine.

PS - I tested WWC water last week when I picked up my Grizzly Adams acro and it was almost 30 no3 and .08 po4. They’re doing something right.

This is mostly true, however at these numbers your maintenance is more and you have to stay on top of it. It’s not that hard to get it to a lower state and keep it there. The biggest reason many like to run lower tanks is cause if we can we can skip changes when we are lazy and not lay for it later. When your hitting 40’s you’ll have slower growth for both sps and most lps. And some won’t ever take hold but this is a bit over hyped I agree.

I could go a year and long as I does and top off not need to do anything to my tanks at all. I’d like setting up and viewing my tanks and hate working on them.

One thing you failed more important then alk is ph though.. keep stable alk and ph and salinity check cal once in a while and the numbers are not that big a deal other then what they may be growing in the tank that you didn’t pay for. There just isn’t any reason you shouldn’t be able to keep lower numbers really unless using a course grain bed collecting crap.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

I dont run a sump. Just a hob fuge with ceramic rings and some carbon. I also do caribsea argonite sand. I removed mechanical filtration because I didnt clean my sponge for 2 months and had no spikes in ammonia or nitrate. I repurposed my aquaclear 70 to a refugium

I’m not a fan of the argonite sand having 1.0-2.5mm grains. That leaves a lot of space for gunk to settle into the sand and die. Gravel vac to your hearts content you’ll never remove it all. It’s just too corse. .5-1.0 max for me and I normally use super fine oolight which I have to sacrifice a little flow and spend more time on placement of powerheads with but keeps anything from sinking in and dying off.

Pain in the butt but after 3-4 weeks of this it’s time to remove the sandbed and either replace it with say a pink figi which will not blow around as easy as my OO but is fine enough to prevent issues like this.. or remove and power wash it and put it back but keep in mind you’ll be doing this every few mo this with corser grains like this.

If you need a reference on how to power wash and also how it won’t hurt your BB while doing so look up threads by Brandon (249) or some sort of number after that. He’s got extensive research and documentation on this. Give me a sec and I’ll look it up and post his full name..

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

@brandon429

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

My main confusion with this is that everything was perfect until the skimmer malfunction why did it just become a problem lol

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

It’s my current OP you have 7 months of build up in your corse sandbed. Your skimmer going down is what shown the issue that it was helping to prevent however the reason the skimmer and fuge are not working now is cause you have a bed full of stuff you can’t see still breaking down. Till it’s removed it won’t go back to where it once was only remain at where it is as it’s new norm.

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

It’s my current OP you have 7 months of build up in your corse sandbed. Your skimmer going down is what shown the issue that it was helping to prevent however the reason the skimmer and fuge are not working now is cause you have a bed full of stuff you can’t see still breaking down. Till it’s removed it won’t go back to where it once was only remain at where it is as it’s new norm.

What's the best way to remove and change a sandbed without destroying my tank

 

[Sailfinguy21]

Side note im pretty sure the api kits you need to hold slightly away from the white background. If its right up against it itll read higher. 20ppm will look lile 10ppm if you pull it away and 40 will look like 20. You also need to hold it up to a white ligjt.. daylight or a white led being the best.. thats just what ive observed

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

What's the best way to remove and change a sandbed without destroying my tank

Go to search forum and search for @brandon429 this is his specialty.

Myself I’d just pull it out and place in new carribe sea pink figi. 20lbs should do for a 20g with rocks in it to get a gold 1” bed your scooter will be happy with and shouldn’t destabilize the tank.

You don’t have to remove water for this. Just turn all flow off and use a cup to slowly pour it on the bottom and stirr a little.

First two weeks you’ll have to run reduced flow as the sand is settling and is easier to blow around. After that you can increase and play with it to get what you want which is enough flow to keep anything from sitting on the bottom long.. slow enough to not blow around.

If looking to wash what you have and put back.. you’ll have to look at Brandon’s posts for that..

Hell if it was freshwater I’d just toss in playsand but the silicates in that with a salt tank will play havoc on diatoms. I run fine sand on 6 tanks freshwater and saltwater and have never once cleaned the sand. Finer grains just pack tighter Mekong things from sinking into them. Corse grain sand is like leaving a sponge filter in for 7 months wo changing or cleaning.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Side note im pretty sure the api kits you need to hold slightly away from the white background. If its right up against it itll read higher. 20ppm will look lile 10ppm if you pull it away and 40 will look like 20. You also need to hold it up to a white ligjt.. daylight or a white led being the best.. thats just what ive observed

To clarify.. the white areas between the color bars are there as you’re supposed to hold the vile in front of the card in that white space to determine the color. I find a 45* tilt to the card and vile five best results wo being effected by lighting kelvin colors long as the light is from overhead.

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

Side note im pretty sure the api kits you need to hold slightly away from the white background. If its right up against it itll read higher. 20ppm will look lile 10ppm if you pull it away and 40 will look like 20. You also need to hold it up to a white ligjt.. daylight or a white led being the best.. thats just what ive observed

I've noticed that too. I thought you held it directly against the paper. Can anyone else chime in on this?