Can't get nitrates down

[beaslbob]

If you look at the API instruction manual under "Nitrate" test and just above where the actual instructions are, you will see a paragraph regarding dividing by 4.4. This means that if you compare the API results to a test that tests Nitrate as NO3-N (total nitrate-nitrogen), you will need to divide by 4.4 to accurately compare the tests. From what I understand, when we talk about "nitrates", it's NO3, therefore the result you get from API (in this case its 20ppm) is your nitrate result.

Yes, it is confusing.

Yes it is.

From my science classes and engineering experience one of the most important things to specify when writing reports or when reading reports is the units being used. Even the simple F=MA is actually F=kMA where k is the conversion factor for the units being used.

Back to aquariums nitrate-total or nitrate-nitrogen are both perfectly acceptable means of measuring the concentration of nitrate ions. And most test kits measure nitrate total. But to be precisely correct one must specify which units are being used. What makes it more confusing is both are ppm nitrates. Unlike alk which had degrees, ppm. meg/l and what have ya.

my .02

 

[goodoleboyz250]

So even tho it measure the total its still 20 ppm which needs to be reduced to add corals?

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[howaboutme]

So even tho it measure the total its still 20 ppm which needs to be reduced to add corals?

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I'm going through this same issue. I've concluded to myself that it is okay to add corals. You will find many people that will say 20ppm is fine, just watch it and continue to do your wc. I have a new tank (about 2 months) and numbers like that will go up and down as your tank continues to build the denitrying bacteria. I am going to add my first frags this weekend...Of course, it helps that I'm getting them for free so it's very little risk. I'm relatively new so I was worried, just like you about 20ppm. But I would calm down and do your routine. The only thing I did was do 2 wc's a week at about 13% (which is only a 5G bucket so it's easier to measure). Mine goes from 5 or 10 to about 20 between wc's.

Just watch out for sensitive and expensive inverts..they are most senstive to nitrate spikes.

 

[Reefing Madness]

So even tho it measure the total its still 20 ppm which needs to be reduced to add corals?

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No, SPS would need it lower, but LPS and Softies are fine with that.

 

[howaboutme]

No, SPS would need it lower, but LPS and Softies are fine with that.

Yes, that's right. I forgot to mention that my first corals will be frosgspawn and ricordeas...no sps.

 

[Reefing Madness]

 

[2dmax]

So is it 20ppm from API test or is it 20ppm/4.4??? =4.54ppm??

I am also getting around 15-20ppm on mine....

 

[Reefing Madness]

If you look at the API instruction manual under "Nitrate" test and just above where the actual instructions are, you will see a paragraph regarding dividing by 4.4. This means that if you compare the API results to a test that tests Nitrate as NO3-N (total nitrate-nitrogen), you will need to divide by 4.4 to accurately compare the tests. From what I understand, when we talk about "nitrates", it's NO3, therefore the result you get from API (in this case its 20ppm) is your nitrate result.

Yes, it is confusing.

Man,im never going to get this right. I don't even have that divide by 4 on my instrucions, i've only seen on an older kit.

 

[goodoleboyz250]

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[goodoleboyz250]

So what don't make since to me is if somebody ask about your parameters and you say 20 on the nitrate that gets confusing beings the other test are different

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[Reefing Madness]

AH, now I get it. If you were to use a Salifert, it would test lower than the API. The tests use different ways of going about it.

 

[howaboutme]

So what don't make since to me is if somebody ask about your parameters and you say 20 on the nitrate that gets confusing beings the other test are different

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When someone asks what are your nitrates, it's NO3, which is what API and Salifert use and NOT divided by 4.4. When using Red Sea (and maybe others, I haven't researched it all, just what is relevant to me), you have to multiply by 4.4 (or use their provided chart, which is confusing) to get NO3.

AH, now I get it. If you were to use a Salifert, it would test lower than the API. The tests use different ways of going about it.

No, Salifert tests NO3, exactly the same as API. Salifert tests are usually lower than API because every company tests NO3 differently. Most say Salifert is more accurate so they go w/ the lower number. It's up to the hobbyist to figure out what's best.

 

[Reefing Madness]

I'd just divide by 4.4 and use that number from API, which would match the Red Sea kit number. Or just forget it and just go by the number given by API, which I don't because I know its not accurate, because if it was, my Cheato would be growing, showing a number of 30ppm in my tank.

 

[beaslbob]

So is it 20ppm from API test or is it 20ppm/4.4??? =4.54ppm??

I am also getting around 15-20ppm on mine....

Yes. :xd:

yes it is 20 ppm from the api test

Yes that is 20ppm nitrates-total.

and

yes it is 4.54 nitrate-nitrogen.

FWIW years ago I got a fast test kit and it read in nitrate-nitrogen. So with that kit you would (if possible) read 4.54ppm nitrate-nitrogen.

Reference my post above on the importance of units.


my .02

 

[howaboutme]

I'd just divide by 4.4 and use that number from API, which would match the Red Sea kit number. Or just forget it and just go by the number given by API, which I don't because I know its not accurate, because if it was, my Cheato would be growing, showing a number of 30ppm in my tank.

As stated in the above post, both are correct. But...when we ask what your nitrates are, it's NO3, NOT NO3-N. So the higher number, before you divide by 4.4 is the correct number. Now, whether or not you think API is correct or not is another issue. Get Salifert, they test similarly so you can check the API. If you use Red Sea, multiply by 4.4 to compare to API. It's like using Fahrenheit vs Celsius.

Again, you do not divide by 4.4. Your nitrates are the higher number...and whether or not its correct is another issue.

Yes, this is a super confusing subject that most aren't aware of. It's almost not fair because people might be reading NO3-N at 5ppm and think they are fine but in reality, it's way higher. Also, looking w/ your eyes at your tank is just as important than depending on tests alone (like whether or not your cheato is growing).

 

[Reefing Madness]

As stated in the above post, both are correct. But...when we ask what your nitrates are, it's NO3, NOT NO3-N. So the higher number, before you divide by 4.4 is the correct number. Now, whether or not you think API is correct or not is another issue. Get Salifert, they test similarly so you can check the API. If you use Red Sea, multiply by 4.4 to compare to API. It's like using Fahrenheit vs Celsius.

Again, you do not divide by 4.4. Your nitrates are the higher number...and whether or not its correct is another issue.

Yes, this is a super confusing subject that most aren't aware of. It's almost not fair because people might be reading NO3-N at 5ppm and think they are fine but in reality, it's way higher. Also, looking w/ your eyes at your tank is just as important than depending on tests alone (like whether or not your cheato is growing).

 

[Savant]

Sigh....trying to gather all info b4 starting my tank...so to be able to communicate in a common and sensible manner lol which test kit(with out having to have an understanding of quantum mechanics) would give me numbers that the majority of people can offer advice about?

 

[AquamanE]

I disagree with most above. Its a 4 month old tank. Keep doing what your doing, including regular waterchanges (30%/month). Dont add anything else until the tank matures better. Things will settle down

Think simple!!

 

[AquamanE]

NO3 is NO3

 

[Akira]

+1 AquamanE ! But API test kits have never been accurate for me no matter the math. Oh and try a lil carbon :bigsmile: