Cant identify what this is

[Kizdyr77]

Hello all,

Can anyone help me ID whats going on with my big ol' Creole Anthias?

He started getting these marks on him a few weeks ago...they arent raised, no itching behavior, eating and behaving normally.

I did 5 days or ruby reef rally pro (its a fowlr) but they really didnt lessen any, maybe a little, but not appreciably.

Any advice would be much welcomed.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello all,

Can anyone help me ID whats going on with my big ol' Creole Anthias?

He started getting these marks on him a few weeks ago...they arent raised, no itching behavior, eating and behaving normally.

I did 5 days or ruby reef rally pro (its a fowlr) but they really didnt lessen any, maybe a little, but not appreciably.

Any advice would be much welcomed.

this appears to be velvet.
Velvet on fish is often caused by a dinoflagellate parasite known as Amyloodinium ocellatum and often triggered by poor or no acclimation which will certainly place any fish at risk of bacterial, parasitical and viral issues. It takes several days for this and other conditions to be noticed/seen and has already progressed.
Velvet has a life cycle similar to that of ich protozoan as they go through various life stages which some become resistant to treatments.
Treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.0-2.25 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

 

[Kizdyr77]

this appears to be velvet.
Velvet on fish is often caused by a dinoflagellate parasite known as Amyloodinium ocellatum and often triggered by poor or no acclimation which will certainly place any fish at risk of bacterial, parasitical and viral issues. It takes several days for this and other conditions to be noticed/seen and has already progressed.
Velvet has a life cycle similar to that of ich protozoan as they go through various life stages which some become resistant to treatments.
Treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 20-2.25 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

Thanks for the quick response!



At first thought velvet as well, but after 4 weeks of this condition i would assume i would have had losses amongst the other fish. (Lost a whole tank to velvet once). The rally pro treament ended sunday.



Not totally ruling it out, it just seems odd since none of the velvet behaviors-flashing, swimming into the powerheads loss of appetite is occuring.

Its almost like the scales are individually pale.

No other fish has these specific marks either.

 

[Joe31415]

Treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 20-2.25

I believe that should be 2.0-2.25.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I believe that should be 2.0-2.25.

already fixed

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for the quick response!



At first thought velvet as well, but after 4 weeks of this condition i would assume i would have had losses amongst the other fish. (Lost a whole tank to velvet once). The rally pro treament ended sunday.



Not totally ruling it out, it just seems odd since none of the velvet behaviors-flashing, swimming into the powerheads loss of appetite is occuring.

Its almost like the scales are individually pale.

No other fish has these specific marks either.

That's not velvet, you can see discrete spots. Also, velvet would cause rapid breathing.

This species is prone to ich, but in that case, I would expect other fish to at least show some spots.

It could be scale damage from flukes.

The Rally Pro may have been keeping this at bay, but not actually curing the problem - that is pretty common with that product.

How long have you had this fish?
Have any new fish been added recently?
Can you post a video?

Jay

 

[Kizdyr77]

That's not velvet, you can see discrete spots. Also, velvet would cause rapid breathing.

This species is prone to ich, but in that case, I would expect other fish to at least show some spots.

It could be scale damage from flukes.

The Rally Pro may have been keeping this at bay, but not actually curing the problem - that is pretty common with that product.

How long have you had this fish?
Have any new fish been added recently?
Can you post a video?

Jay

Hi Jay,

Thanks for responding.

I have had him for about 2 years. Was quarantined with copper (actually lost an eye in qt) when i got him. No issues till now.

I did temporarily house a painted frog fish and fu manchu lion in acclimation boxes in this tank. Both came from same well known to me tank that they had been in for over a year)

At work right now, but my daughter sent me a picture of another fish (emperor angel) that now appears to have similar markings. (Hes been in tank as long as the creole anthias)

I will attach.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay,

Thanks for responding.

I have had him for about 2 years. Was quarantined with copper (actually lost an eye in qt) when i got him. No issues till now.

I did temporarily house a painted frog fish and fu manchu lion in acclimation boxes in this tank. Both came from same well known to me tank that they had been in for over a year)

At work right now, but my daughter sent me a picture of another fish (emperor angel) that now appears to have similar markings. (Hes been in tank as long as the creole anthias)

I will attach.

That emperor sure looks like it has ich also.

Jay

 

[Kizdyr77]

That emperor sure looks like it has ich also.

Jay

They are all flat sorta colorless splotches. No raised "pimples"

 

[Jay Hemdal]

They are all flat sorta colorless splotches. No raised "pimples"

Emperor angels show a unique “blanching” of the skin in response to ich trophonts, it looks different on them than pretty much any other species. They also do that in response to flukes. The rapid development of these spots points to ich though.

 

[Kizdyr77]

Emperor angels show a unique “blanching” of the skin in response to ich trophonts, it looks different on them than pretty much any other species. They also do that in response to flukes. The rapid development of these spots points to ich though.

Got it. Thank you.

I have copper power and prazipro, can i use them simultaneously to ensure i get the flukes and ich? Its a Fowlr and dont mind dosing the DT.

I also have a Zebra Eel in the tank that would be difficult to catch, would he be ok ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Got it. Thank you.

I have copper power and prazipro, can i use them simultaneously to ensure i get the flukes and ich? Its a Fowlr and dont mind dosing the DT.

I also have a Zebra Eel in the tank that would be difficult to catch, would he be ok ?

I prefer not to dose copper and Prazipro at the same time, but it can be done. I generally dose copper first, then prazi, as protozoans kill fish a lot faster than flukes do.

The eel is not going to handle copper well. It will likely go off feed. If it is in good shape, it will survive though. If it is thin, or a new acquisition, you may want to rethink it.

If your tank is a true FOWLR, you have a better option - hyposalinity. That controls ich and flukes. If you dose copper in that tank, the rocks are going to suck the copper up.

Here is a link about hypo:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[dthom]

Jay is awesome! Hypo for ich has always worked great for me.

 

[Kizdyr77]

I prefer not to dose copper and Prazipro at the same time, but it can be done. I generally dose copper first, then prazi, as protozoans kill fish a lot faster than flukes do.

The eel is not going to handle copper well. It will likely go off feed. If it is in good shape, it will survive though. If it is thin, or a new acquisition, you may want to rethink it.

If your tank is a true FOWLR, you have a better option - hyposalinity. That controls ich and flukes. If you dose copper in that tank, the rocks are going to suck the copper up.

Here is a link about hypo:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

First, thank you for your time and knowledge, it is much appreciated.

Soo.. i jumped the gun a bit last night and did the prazipro, my thought process being i can do a waterchange if necessary to go to copper.

Immediately after the dose, there was much headshaking and flashing, mild with most of the other fish, and signifigant with the crole anthias and emperor angel, followed by a definite stressed out period..but all was normal this morning and all ate.

The eel is a decently sized 2.5 foot, eats well ( 2 crab clusters last night) and has been a resident for about a year (had a 1 month hunger strike when aquired)

Definitely a true fowlr that went thru copper 2 years ago when i had velvet, and i have a hanna copper checker to keep it in therapeutic range.

To be honest, hypo interests me very much, but the specter of my encounter with velvet a few years ago still haunts the back of my mind, having read before that hypo makes velvet worse...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

First, thank you for your time and knowledge, it is much appreciated.

Soo.. i jumped the gun a bit last night and did the prazipro, my thought process being i can do a waterchange if necessary to go to copper.

Immediately after the dose, there was much headshaking and flashing, mild with most of the other fish, and signifigant with the crole anthias and emperor angel, followed by a definite stressed out period..but all was normal this morning and all ate.

The eel is a decently sized 2.5 foot, eats well ( 2 crab clusters last night) and has been a resident for about a year (had a 1 month hunger strike when aquired)

Definitely a true fowlr that went thru copper 2 years ago when i had velvet, and i have a hanna copper checker to keep it in therapeutic range.

To be honest, hypo interests me very much, but the specter of my encounter with velvet a few years ago still haunts the back of my mind, having read before that hypo makes velvet worse...

Hypo doesn't make velvet worse, it just doesn't control it at all, so yes, you are left with that risk. However, velvet is pretty rare, and I don't see any evidence of it in this case. The majority of "velvet" cases that come to me are actually late stage ich, and people have a misdiagnosis.

Jay