Cant wrap my head around cyano, my arch enemy

[t5Nitro]

How much live phyto are you guys dosing on a daily basis to what volume tank? I have been doing 30mL daily. It hasn't successfully stopped cyano which likes my tank, too.

 

[m0jjen]

Plankton gegen Cyanos - Mrutzek Meeresaquaristik GmbH

Plankton gegen Cyanos

www.shop-meeresaquaristik.de

Plankton24

Meerwasseraquaristik Salzwasseraquaristik Plankton Meerwasser Korallen Cyanos

plankton24.de

Sincerely Lasse

You seem to pop up like a knight in shining armor everytime i need you

The hanna hi 774 has resulted in 0.05 and 0.07 from 2 tests. both are within the 0.02 error range. Lets guess its 0.06 for the sake of it.

That reading and the phosphate bound in algae and cyano means im abit higher in total then.

Also went and did the DIY KZ coral snow and will start dosing it today to see if it helps with removing gunk and cyano.

 

[m0jjen]

Guess ill keep the thread updated. Since the last post i have started to baster all the rocks and spots where cyano thrives. Removed it all into a sock before the first baster. After that i started with the DIY coral snow. These two seem to halter the cyano quite alot actually.

I also started a culture of Synechococcus sp phyto. I cant say its feasible to spend 240$ on phyto to try and run the full course of their cyano erradication plan. Hopefully the culture will do well and i can do it all for under 20$ total.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I’m typically against almost any treatment, however I had the same issue for long enough I got fed up and used chemi-clean. It did not harm my system in anyway and I have not had cyano back in 9 months. Worth mentioning at least

its all about the technique though!!

 

[m0jjen]

its all about the technique though!!

Do tell.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Do tell.

I'm not sure what it is, mostly because of my home schooling, and I've never used the stuff,but it seems like some people have used it with great successes and almost the same with not so much.
I figure the ones that are having this success like the one I originally quoted must have a "technique " and that is what is either making the product work for them or not....


I also would like to know the "technique " so please chime in with hints tips and tricks ppl!

 

[m0jjen]

I'm not sure what it is, mostly because of my home schooling, and I've never used the stuff,but it seems like some people have used it with great successes and almost the same with not so much.
I figure the ones that are having this success like the one I originally quoted must have a "technique " and that is what is either making the product work for them or not....


I also would like to know the "technique " so please chime in with hints tips and tricks ppl!

Im gonna go ahead and say that different strains of cyano react differently on the antibiotics within it. That said there are also cyano bacteria and spirulina which can look the same. And one is not treatable at all with chemi-clean. There is no technique to it in my opinion. You just have to find the underlying issue during the "down" period when the cyano is gone from using chemicals. If you dont it will come back.

 

[Mmar2385]

Hi!

I've had afew threads about my cyano situation / tank not doing well. Since the tank overall is doing alot better but still cant rid the cyano. Had cyano for about 4 years, green and red and between two tanks (same livestock and rock pretty much). Always had low but measurable nutrients so i figured the cyano took away abit of it. Until recently.

Tested alot of thinks with a reasonable space inbetween with various results but nothing seems enough.

System

Red sea reefer 625 xxl with a fragtank at 180L plummed into the same sump. The system is pretty stocked fishwise with 5 medium tangs and 1 small, 1 copperbanded butterfly mediumsized, 2 clowns, 2 wrasses, 1 hawkfisk and 1 dragonette. Coral wise i got quite alot of corals and frags but im currently batteling AEFW aswell (winning tho). Some meaty LPS. Corals are pretty bland in color. While i can understand that the acros are ticked of the LPS isnt to colorfull or happy either. Nothing dying, just not to their full potential, color and lush wise.

Flow

Display has 4 MP40QD, 2 running 100% reefcrest and 2 at 40% pulse. I've configured it so that it helps to drive detritus to the sump which seems pretty successful.
The fragtank has two small tunze 6015 (1800 LPH) and a jebao sw 10 running some random program (8000 LPH) The flow is pretty over the top for the 180L tank from the looks of it.

Filtration

I started out with a skimmer and a clarisea SK5000 along with some ceramic media (maxspect bioblock x2) and have since upped the filtration. Reason behind it was that my phosphate started to creep up (will be more detailed from ICP later in the post). I did a ICP and got the results 02/27/2021 and got all greens besides phosphate. It was at 0.113. Nothing to major in my opinion as a 3 time dino survivor. So i started a fuge which grows chaeto greatly. I figured i should keep my nitrates up aswell since the refugium would consume it so i started dosing KNO3 alongside. I wanted to get the no3 up abit since it was about ~2ish when i started the fuge and i have since dialed it in to a consistent 8 ppm no3.

Over the course of about 5 months i got no results from this and got frustrated and sent another ICP test and got it back 08/27/2021 and once again all good except phosphates. They were at 0.159 mg/l. I got feed up after all these years and ran 1 dose of chemiclean which cleared it right up. Took a couple of weeks then i got some small patches of hairalgae. Mainly in the fragtank.

To get the PO4 down abit since my target is 0.05 - 0.1 i started a reactor with AL99 from triton. first at 3/5 strength, next reactor 4/5 and lastly 5/5. The media is changed every 3 weeks since im guessing it gets depleted quite rapidly.

After about 1.5 months the cyano came back with a vengence. This happened while the reactor with 4/5 strenght was running. I has gotten worse over time since and here i am.


Lighting

Display is running 3x radion xr30w pro gen 3 and the WWC program at 70% giving me 350 - 250 par at the rockwork and 100-200 at the bottom. Fragtank is running a simularprogram on it with the same par numbers averaging par at 200-300 on the eggcrate.

Maintainance

10% weekly waterchange Red sea blue bucket. Mediachanges monthly and detritus/cyano removal at WC weekly. I also blow over rocks with a turkeybaster at WC. I trim the chaeto once every 2 weeks and when i do i remove half.

Feeding is frozen daily. I've reduced it to half of what i previously did which was about 2.5 cubes of mysis daily to abit over 1 cube. I occationally throw in 10-15 pellets (every other day or so).

Suppliments dosed are red sea colors 1 ml / day and 20 ml of KNO3 giving 0.5 ppm / 100L

Water source is my own RODI with 0 TDS and i have filter / silicate media change on 3 months alerted by my apex, carbon filter 6 months and membrain 1 year.

Parameters

Ca: 420 on avarage - (410 - 440) (red sea ca pro)
Mg: 1360 (1280 - 1400) (red sea mg pro)
Kh: 7.9 - 8.3 (alkatronic and salifert) - Daily swing about 0.3 Dkh.
No3: 8 ppm since i started dosing in july, 2-4 ppm before that.
Po4: I dont know really. My red sea po4 pro test kit seems to be way of. When i tested the same time as ICP1 i got 0.04 ppm PO4 and triton gave me 0.113 mg/L. ICP2 0.08 and triton 0.159 mg. Making it consistant and 0.7~ off.

Things i've tried in the past

* Dosing various bacterias
* Increase NO3 by dosing (like 2 years ago or some but stopped at some point)
* Less and more feeding (over the course of months)
* Aggressive detritus removal
* Removed sand about 3 years ago and have been BB since.

I cant really thing about more stuff. I know theres alot of info about the system and what i've done. Most things have been tried over the course of weeks to months before evaluating so there's no point in saying "wooha buddy thats alot of changes" I try to be patient and change one thing at a time and give it atleast 4 weeks before doing anything else.

Hope someone on here can spare the time and help me come to a reasonable solution and find the fundemental problem causing the cyano.

While the phosphates were/are high i know they contribute but i dont wanto slam them in the bottom since I have a great feqr of dino. It has wiped out my tank 3 times the last 10 years and i dont wanto go down that road again.

Both ICP are attatched

Not sure if you'll find this helpful but my tank too struggled with cyano/ red slime attack. I started carefully scrubbing the live rock with my bristle brush tank cleaner. I moved every livestock out and into my old tank. When that didn't work, I bought chemi clean. Did basically a 90 percent water change as you can see here, got all the sand out which was dry sand and then replaced it with all live sand! I scrubbed all the rock and rinsed it with my old rodi water, restructured the rock which I thought I'd take advantage at this point and added the chemiclean as exactly thr instructions said and now, the cyano is no more! Then I filled my 125 with all rodi water. Then you can see the after which was taken today, haven't had a breakout since. I wish you the best of luck with your cyano battle!

 

[Dan_P]

Out compete it, dose live phyto.

I had cyano for years, never could rid myself of it. Tried chemiclean(cleared it up for a while, only to return), blackout periods, chemicals, raising nutrients, lowering nutrients, keeping the redfeild ratio, etc, etc. Started dosing live phyto a couple years back, and have not had any cyano since.

Seriously, it's that easy.

Is there a particular phyto species you are dosing?

 

[BriansBrain]

People told me more flow and I used to think “blah blah that’s a generic answer I have enough flow with my mp40s and I blast my rock with a turkey baster”.

I’m not joking I added a couple more pumps to the back and started dosing a little bit of microbacter7 and the cyano went away with a couple weeks.

It’s all about keeping that detritus and crud in suspension so it can be picked up by your overflow 24/7, not just storming the tank every so often with a WC biweekly. Competitive bacteria helps too

 

[homer1475]

Is there a particular phyto species you are dosing?

Actually.....

I've been dosing a particular blend I found from a fellow reefer on here. I cannot recommend @Eldredge enough. Not only for his phyto, but his customer service is second to none.

 

[BriansBrain]

When i tested the same time as ICP1 i got 0.04 ppm PO4 and triton gave me 0.113 mg/L. ICP2 0.08 and triton 0.159 mg. Making it consistant and 0.7~ off.

Just so you know,

I would not trust or rely on an ICP that you send out for testing phosphate. We test Orthophosphate (PO4) in the hobby and it has a max hold time of 48 hours of collection for an accurate reading. It’s usually preferred to test within a couple hours.

 

[m0jjen]

Is there a particular phyto species you are dosing?

Synechococcus sp phyto should be competing with cyano. If you're in the US there are alot more options and I belive there are phyto blends that do wonders.

People told me more flow and I used to think “blah blah that’s a generic answer I have enough flow with my mp40s and I blast my rock with a turkey baster”.

I’m not joking I added a couple more pumps to the back and started dosing a little bit of microbacter7 and the cyano went away with a couple weeks.

It’s all about keeping that detritus and crud in suspension so it can be picked up by your overflow 24/7, not just storming the tank every so often with a WC biweekly. Competitive bacteria helps too

Doubt i can add more flow. Sure i can but i dont wanto slam my fish into the back glas. Have 4 mp40qd in a 500 liter display. 2 running 100% random and 2 50% constant, basiclly 70-100x turnover.

 

[Dan_P]

Synechococcus sp phyto should be competing with cyano. If you're in the US there are alot more options and I belive there are phyto blends that do wonders.


Doubt i can add more flow. Sure i can but i dont wanto slam my fish into the back glas. Have 4 mp40qd in a 500 liter display. 2 running 100% random and 2 50% constant, basiclly 70-100x turnover.

Ironic using a pelagic cyanobacteria to compete with a benthic species. Maybe @Lasse can explain to me why this seems to work

 

[m0jjen]

Ironic using a pelagic cyanobacteria to compete with a benthic species. Maybe @Lasse can explain to me why this seems to work

Ironic or not it seem to work from what i've read. I dont know the kinks to it tho. My best guess is that is has some upperhand in utilization of the same elements / nutrients hence outcompeting?

 

[Dan_P]

Ironic or not it seem to work from what i've read. I dont know the kinks to it tho. My best guess is that is has some upperhand in utilization of the same elements / nutrients hence outcompeting?

Any indication that it outcompetes diatoms and dinoflagellates?

 

[m0jjen]

Any indication that it outcompetes diatoms and dinoflagellates?

Havent started dosing yet. They recommend to dose 100 ml phyto / 100L tankwater per day. That makes it 700 ml / day for me. With the price of 11.50$ / litre i figured id start culturing it and not spend 250$

First two batches should be done wednesday/thursday. Ill start dosing then

 

[homer1475]

Havent started dosing yet. They recommend to dose 100 ml phyto / 100L tankwater per day. That makes it 700 ml / day for me. With the price of 11.50$ / litre i figured id start culturing it and not spend 250$

First two batches should be done wednesday/thursday. Ill start dosing then

According to that, I'm grossly under dosing my tank. I'm only dosing 60ml / 300L. Still it cleared up my cyano.

 

[jhuntstl]

According to that, I'm grossly under dosing my tank. I'm only dosing 60ml / 300L. Still it cleared up my cyano.

I dose 20ml in a little less than 100L using @Eldredge's phyto. I feel like that's a good amount considering his stuff is so jam packed. I do have cyano in my tank, but it's a pretty insignificant amount.

 

[Dan_P]

According to that, I'm grossly under dosing my tank. I'm only dosing 60ml / 300L. Still it cleared up my cyano.

Because regular dosing is required, does that mean the phytoplankton don’t flourish in an aquarium, get filtered out, eaten faster than they reproduce?