Carbon Dosing A Model Aquarium

Dan_P

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Two posts last year resulted in my interest in gaining a deeper understanding of how carbon dosing worked: @Miami Reef published the new organic carbon dosing schedule


and @Randy Holmes-Farley posted a question about why some aquarists find that dosing carbon takes a long time to see a nitrate reduction.


About two months ago I started an investigation of carbon dosing with two 2 liter model aquaria each containing 1.5 liters freshly collected aquarium water magnetically stirred. The acrylic aquaria were covered in aluminum foil. Each aquarium was dosed daily according to Miami Reef’s dosing schedule for vinegar. The concentration of the ethanol dose was adjusted to be equimolar with the acetic acid in vinegar (I titrated the vinegar to confirm its concentration), that is, I am dosing the same number of molecules of each organic carbon source. Also, phosphate concentration was adjusted during the experiment to the initial value when it fell below 0.1 ppm. Because I did not have enough stir plates at the time, there is no control for the aquarium water just stirring in the dark. Nitrate was measured with the Hanna high range nitrate test. Phosphate was measured with the Hanna low range test. Because of the size of the nitrate test standard deviation, comparing adjacent data points might be misleading and looking for trends of less than 5-7 data points is not a good idea. The plot of the nitrate concentrations for each organic carbon dosed is provided in the plot below. The dashed line gives the dose rate in mL/gallon. I became bored with not seeing much change in the nitrate concentration and cut short the duration of the 0.5 mL/gal dose.

image.png


Several things stand out in the plot. One is that not much happens at or below 0.5 mL/gallon. Maybe we should start dosing there. With respect to the data itself, nitrate concentration data from vinegar dosing aquarium seems bouncier than that for ethanol dosing. If this is not normal variation, then something is going on that is not explained by my simple notion of how carbon dosing works. Observation three is that ethanol dosing consumes a bit more nitrate. That may not come as a surprise. The next plot provides the phosphate consumption data. For clarity because the phosphate concentration was adjusted occasionally, the data is presented as the amount of phosphate consumed rather than the phosphate concentration in the aquaria.

image.png


The phosphate trend from vinegar dosing has an unexplained pause in phosphate consumption just after 10 days. The dip at day 19 could be a forgotten dose in both aquaria. What is interesting about these results and maybe just a coincidence is that phosphate consumption for ethanol dosing is higher than vinegar dosing by approximately the same amount as the amount oxygen needed to fully oxidize ethanol compared to acetic acid (1.5 x). I have more data analysis that I can trot out as interest and questions arise.

I have more experiments in the works to better understand carbon dosing. I am now using the low range nitrate test for better resolution and should be better prepared to sort out signal from the noise.
 

Miami Reef

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Very interesting.

That matches my experience well.

I need at least 0.5mL/gallon of vinegar to start seeing nitrate drop. That’s why I later added the week 3 dose.


When I asked Randy about the 8x difference between vinegar and vodka:
No, that is just a concentration comparison in vodka (40% by weight) and vinegar (5% by weight).

It means that a single molecule of ethanol contains more energy than acetic acid. That doesn't mean it is necessarily better at reducing nitrate, even on a per molecule basis, but it means that organisms might be driven to grow more from using a single molecule of ethanol compared to a single molecule of acetic acid, and that might use more nitrate.
 

Rick Mathew

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Two posts last year resulted in my interest in gaining a deeper understanding of how carbon dosing worked: @Miami Reef published the new organic carbon dosing schedule


and @Randy Holmes-Farley posted a question about why some aquarists find that dosing carbon takes a long time to see a nitrate reduction.


About two months ago I started an investigation of carbon dosing with two 2 liter model aquaria each containing 1.5 liters freshly collected aquarium water magnetically stirred. The acrylic aquaria were covered in aluminum foil. Each aquarium was dosed daily according to Miami Reef’s dosing schedule for vinegar. The concentration of the ethanol dose was adjusted to be equimolar with the acetic acid in vinegar (I titrated the vinegar to confirm its concentration), that is, I am dosing the same number of molecules of each organic carbon source. Also, phosphate concentration was adjusted during the experiment to the initial value when it fell below 0.1 ppm. Because I did not have enough stir plates at the time, there is no control for the aquarium water just stirring in the dark. Nitrate was measured with the Hanna high range nitrate test. Phosphate was measured with the Hanna low range test. Because of the size of the nitrate test standard deviation, comparing adjacent data points might be misleading and looking for trends of less than 5-7 data points is not a good idea. The plot of the nitrate concentrations for each organic carbon dosed is provided in the plot below. The dashed line gives the dose rate in mL/gallon. I became bored with not seeing much change in the nitrate concentration and cut short the duration of the 0.5 mL/gal dose.

image.png


Several things stand out in the plot. One is that not much happens at or below 0.5 mL/gallon. Maybe we should start dosing there. With respect to the data itself, nitrate concentration data from vinegar dosing aquarium seems bouncier than that for ethanol dosing. If this is not normal variation, then something is going on that is not explained by my simple notion of how carbon dosing works. Observation three is that ethanol dosing consumes a bit more nitrate. That may not come as a surprise. The next plot provides the phosphate consumption data. For clarity because the phosphate concentration was adjusted occasionally, the data is presented as the amount of phosphate consumed rather than the phosphate concentration in the aquaria.

image.png


The phosphate trend from vinegar dosing has an unexplained pause in phosphate consumption just after 10 days. The dip at day 19 could be a forgotten dose in both aquaria. What is interesting about these results and maybe just a coincidence is that phosphate consumption for ethanol dosing is higher than vinegar dosing by approximately the same amount as the amount oxygen needed to fully oxidize ethanol compared to acetic acid (1.5 x). I have more data analysis that I can trot out as interest and questions arise.

I have more experiments in the works to better understand carbon dosing. I am now using the low range nitrate test for better resolution and should be better prepared to sort out signal from the noise.
Very nice work Dan....looking forward to the next set of experiments.
 
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Dan_P

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Very nice work Dan....looking forward to the next set of experiments.
Thanks Rick!

Any analytical methods development plans on your end?
 
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Dan_P

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Very interesting.

That matches my experience well.

I need at least 0.5mL/gallon of vinegar to start seeing nitrate drop. That’s why I later added the week 3 dose.


When I asked Randy about the 8x difference between vinegar and vodka:
This investigation might just be an exercise in proving Randy is right again :)
 
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Dan_P

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Very interesting.

That matches my experience well.

I need at least 0.5mL/gallon of vinegar to start seeing nitrate drop. That’s why I later added the week 3 dose.

Is there a downside to just starting at 0.5 mL/gallon? Do we know that starting at a lower dose helps coral and fish to get used to the vinegar?
 

Miami Reef

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Is there a downside to just starting at 0.5 mL/gallon? Do we know that starting at a lower dose helps coral and fish to get used to the vinegar?
I don’t know. I’ve done it many times, but maybe others could have different strains of bacteria.

I just suggest it because even when following my chart’s pace, it’s significantly quicker than that old chart. In 3 weeks, you can get to the high dose.

People get scared when adding large additives to their tanks for the first time. I think taking it slower puts their minds at ease. It can’t hurt to take it slow.
 

Miami Reef

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This is the old chart. I did not make this, and I think this chart is ridiculous; I never liked it.

IMG_1642.jpeg
 
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Dan_P

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I don’t know. I’ve done it many times, but maybe others could have different strains of bacteria.

I just suggest it because even when following my chart’s pace, it’s significantly quicker than that old chart. In 3 weeks, you can get to the high dose.

People get scared when adding large additives to their tanks for the first time. I think taking it slower puts their minds at ease. It can’t hurt to take it slow.
OK, sounds reasonable.
 

Rick Mathew

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Thanks Rick!

Any analytical methods development plans on your end?
No nothing new in the "Q" as of now. I have explored a colorimetric test for Strontium but it has not moved past the literature search stage. I have also been working in refining my methods to reduce errors...that is about it! Keeping busy with consulting work takes me away from the bench! :(...Should be slowing down in a couple of month...I hope!
 
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Dan_P

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Nice experiment, Dan!

Is bacteria visible in either one?
The water in the ethanol treatment became hazy with the heavier dose and the vinegar dose became hazy later on. After decanting the medium, a biofilm could be seen in both aquaria, though the biofilm in the ethanol treatment appeared heavier.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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The water in the ethanol treatment became hazy with the heavier dose and the vinegar dose became hazy later on. After decanting the medium, a biofilm could be seen in both aquaria, though the biofilm in the ethanol treatment appeared heavier.

Great, thanks!
 
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Dan_P

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Nice experiment, Dan!

Is bacteria visible in either one?
Here is a look at how the media and aquarium surfaces consume nitrate after I decanted the media into a clean aquarium and placed a similar volume of Instant Ocean containing a similar level of NO3 and PO4 as the decanted media. This is interesting but I don’t get why vinegar and ethanol surfaces behaved differently relative to their respective media. I need to repeat this experiment.

image.png

image.png
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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The aquarium water is what I am referring to as media.
Ah, ok.

Then perhaps the species driven are different, and the ethanol species like to grow on surfaces more than the acetate species.
 
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Dan_P

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Ah, ok.

Then perhaps the species driven are different, and the ethanol species like to grow on surfaces more than the acetate species.
I had an idea after I posted. The vinegar dosed aquarium is behind the nitrate and phosphate consumption of the ethanol dosed aquarium. Could the reason just be that the biofilm growth is also behind, which would correspond to the visual appearance of a lighter biofilm on the surfaces of 5he vinegar dosed aquarium.
 

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Couple questions come to mind...
If I'm interpreting this correctly..
The ethanol is clearly more effective at lowering residual nutrients(?). But, the acetate is said to be taken up by many organisms(main benefit) - not just no3/po4 consuming bacteria. So is it possible that, in a running reef tank, the results might be more equal. Or is the path for the acetate just slower and the relationship with the other organisms is irrelevant to the nutrient decrease?
 

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