Carbon Dosing effect on pH?

Pat613

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I'm stumped as to how to fix this, but figured I'd ask. Obviously dosing acids to the tank will drop pH, is there a calculation for how much?

The part I'm stumped by:

pH = 7.65 - 7.75 measured with 2 freshly calibrated tools.
Room CO2 = 400-500 ppm (possibly off, unknown meter quality, Amazon)
CO2 scrubber attached to skimmer with fresh media

I'm down to 5 Acan frags and a torch for anything stony, so dosing Kalk or 2 part just raises Alk.

NO3 30ppm (Hanna HR)
PO4 .18 (Hanna PO4)
^^^^ why I'm carbon dosing, I'd like to put sticks in

Aeration tests coming, but every time I do them, indoor vs outdoor are the same essentially.

Tank 20G
Dosing 1.5ml NOPOX
Alk 9.5
Ca 415
Mg 1425

stocking
2 clowns
1 goby
1 royal gramma

I've stopped any coral feeding (other than 5 drops of Brightwell Aminos/day). Feeding 0.5 cubes of frozen daily and 5ml phyto every other day to feed the pods.

Any help is appreciated :)
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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I'm stumped as to how to fix this, but figured I'd ask. Obviously dosing acids to the tank will drop pH, is there a calculation for how much?

The part I'm stumped by:

pH = 7.65 - 7.75 measured with 2 freshly calibrated tools.
Room CO2 = 400-500 ppm (possibly off, unknown meter quality, Amazon)
CO2 scrubber attached to skimmer with fresh media

I'm down to 5 Acan frags and a torch for anything stony, so dosing Kalk or 2 part just raises Alk.

NO3 30ppm (Hanna HR)
PO4 .18 (Hanna PO4)
^^^^ why I'm carbon dosing, I'd like to put sticks in

Aeration tests coming, but every time I do them, indoor vs outdoor are the same essentially.

Tank 20G
Dosing 1.5ml NOPOX
Alk 9.5
Ca 415
Mg 1425

stocking
2 clowns
1 goby
1 royal gramma

I've stopped any coral feeding (other than 5 drops of Brightwell Aminos/day). Feeding 0.5 cubes of frozen daily and 5ml phyto every other day to feed the pods.

Any help is appreciated :)

If you fully aerate 9 dKH water at pH 7.7 with normal outside air and the pH is unchanged, then it is likely the pH measurement is off (or the alk is wrong). Only other option is you stopped the test before it was done.
 
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Pat613

Pat613

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If you fully aerate 9 dKH water at pH 7.7 with normal outside air and the pH is unchanged, then it is likely the pH measurement is off (or the alk is wrong). Only other option is you stopped the test before it was done.
OK, good to know. What should the water hit when aerated outside? At least 8ish correct? (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/). I use 250ml water, and run it for 1h, typically.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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GoVols

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so dosing Kalk or 2 part just raises Alk.

You need to rethink the above

2 part is dosing cal and alk

Kalk does the same thing, but it also can lead to a higher ph level. It consumes Co2.
 
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Pat613

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You need to rethink the above

2 part is dosing cal and alk

Kalk does the same thing, but it also can lead to a higher ph level. It consumes Co2.
How do you mean? I just meant I didn't have enough consumption to dose either to effectively bump pH for more than a day or three, without alk getting too high.

By 2 part I really just meant the Alk side of a 2 part that bumps pH .2-.25.
 
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Pat613

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CO2 meter is trash. Outdoor test hit 8.1. Due to my MS, I need the AC on in my high rise condo when it’s >26 C outside. CO2 scrubber is already going, chaeto did almost nothing in such a tiny space, I can’t drill the wall, can’t install an air exchanger. I seem to be kinda stuck.
 

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NO3 30ppm (Hanna HR)
PO4 .18 (Hanna PO4)
^^^^ why I'm carbon dosing, I'd like to put sticks in
IMO, carbon dosing is unlikely to help much with Phosphates. They may help a little, but are best used for Nitrate reduction. At least it never has reduced Phosphates much for me.

Phosphate control is best done with GFO if you have a reactor.
 

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@Pat613 check into installing an ERV.

You said you have a condo. I will assume you own it.

You need to get permission from the HOA. This shouldn't be hard because it will be attached to the HVAC. Then get a qualified HVAC person/company to install it. Might cost you some money, but it will be well worth it to have low levels of CO2, not just for your tank but for yourself. The best part of the ERV is that it doesn't just dump in hot/cold outside air there is some elfen majik involved.

Look them up they work awesome.
 

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How do you mean? I just meant I didn't have enough consumption to dose either to effectively bump pH for more than a day or three, without alk getting too high.

By 2 part I really just meant the Alk side of a 2 part that bumps pH .2-.25.
For clarity:

I don’t see where you said that you stopped dosing anything.

_______________________________________
For future readres of your thread:

Bumping up or alk via 2 part can raise ph.
Randy has provided alk formulas that really boost a reef’s ph

Kalk provides calcium, alk and it also consumes Co2.

Two most common factors in low PH:
Alkalinity levels and trapped in Co2

I could be wrong:
But, I think the Co2 detectors that we use in our homes, do not detect that form of Co2 In an meaningful way to a reef‘s ph level.

If I am wrong, it would be nice for another member to post (link) one that coincides with a reef Co2 levels.
 
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Pat613

Pat613

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IMO, carbon dosing is unlikely to help much with Phosphates. They may help a little, but are best used for Nitrate reduction. At least it never has reduced Phosphates much for me.

Phosphate control is best done with GFO if you have a reactor.
They’re falling, I‘m run 2Tbsp of rowaphos. As you say, the carbon dosing is really for the nitrates
@Pat613 check into installing an ERV.

You said you have a condo. I will assume you own it.

You need to get permission from the HOA. This shouldn't be hard because it will be attached to the HVAC. Then get a qualified HVAC person/company to install it. Might cost you some money, but it will be well worth it to have low levels of CO2, not just for your tank but for yourself. The best part of the ERV is that it doesn't just dump in hot/cold outside air there is some elfen majik involved.

Look them up they work awesome.
I do own it, but it’s a hotel style AC/Heater, no real HVAC system. It’s on the 5th floor…
 

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@Pat613 check into installing an ERV.

You said you have a condo. I will assume you own it.

You need to get permission from the HOA. This shouldn't be hard because it will be attached to the HVAC. Then get a qualified HVAC person/company to install it. Might cost you some money, but it will be well worth it to have low levels of CO2, not just for your tank but for yourself. The best part of the ERV is that it doesn't just dump in hot/cold outside air there is some elfen majik involved.

Look them up they work awesome.
Great post!!

We tried doing that with our townhome, when we had a new HVAC installed.

Our HOA would not pass, the sight of seeing it’s exhausts. bummer

Still raising widows
 
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Pat613

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For clarity:

I don’t see where you said that you stopped dosing anything.

_______________________________________
For future readres of your thread:

Bumping up or alk via 2 part can raise ph.
Randy has provided alk formulas that really boost a reef’s ph

Kalk provides calcium, alk and it also consumes Co2.

Two most common factors in low PH:
Alkalinity levels and trapped in Co2

I could be wrong:
But, I think the Co2 detectors that we use in our homes, do not detect that form of Co2 In an meaningful way to a reef‘s ph level.

If I am wrong, it would be nice for another member to post (link) one that coincides with a reef Co2 levels.
Sorry, I did try Red Sea Alk based on Randy’s vid. Then tried kalk a few months later, but with either, my consumption wasn’t enough to keep Alk from climbing while also meaningfully effecting pH.

The alk swings took out a few corals and my consumption is now tiny. Guess I’ll just have to buy some more coral ;).
 

HuduVudu

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@Pat613 if you can't deal with the ambient CO2 then you are fighting a losing battle.

Here are the options that I see. If you have windows that you can open then get a line and run it to your skimmer. Build/improvise a way to seal the gap from the window being open. You don't need the window to be open much.

The other is REALLY ugly and expensive. That is run a CO2 scrubber. This is just going to be not fun.

One note at 1400ppm CO2 human beings start to have cognitave decline. IMO this is really harmful to your long term health. I was fighting with this problem in my house until I discovered ERVs. Once I got a meter and was testing regularly, I decided to leave the windows closed and see where the CO2 topped out. I had 2 people in 1500ft2. I stopped the test at 2800ppm and the crazy part is that they CO2 showed no sign of abating.

I shudder looking back on how much CO2 I was dealing with. Yes, I was constantly tired and lethargic.

Food for thought.
 
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Pat613

Pat613

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@Pat613 if you can't deal with the ambient CO2 then you are fighting a losing battle.

Here are the options that I see. If you have windows that you can open then get a line and run it to your skimmer. Build/improvise a way to seal the gap from the window being open. You don't need the window to be open much.

The other is REALLY ugly and expensive. That is run a CO2 scrubber. This is just going to be not fun.

One note at 1400ppm CO2 human beings start to have cognitave decline. IMO this is really harmful to your long term health. I was fighting with this problem in my house until I discovered ERVs. Once I got a meter and was testing regularly, I decided to leave the windows closed and see where the CO2 topped out. I had 2 people in 1500ft2. I stopped the test at 2800ppm and the crazy part is that they CO2 showed no sign of abating.

I shudder looking back on how much CO2 I was dealing with. Yes, I was constantly tired and lethargic.

Food for thought.
Yikes, I would love to measure the CO2 in here, as 2 people in 1500sqf is the situation. It’s an older building that’s pretty drafty in the winter, which is why I wasn’t sure if my CO2 meter was off or not. I already run a CO2 scrubber :(.
 
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HuduVudu

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Yikes, I would love to measure the CO2 in here, as 2 people in 1500sqf is the situation. It’s an older building that’s pretty drafty in the winter, which is why I wasn’t sure if my CO2 meter was off or not. I already run a CO2 scrubber :(.
I found out the hard way that drafty means leaks heat/cold, not leaks air.
 
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Pat613

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OK, here's the workaround I'm trying. The office (where the tank is) is the second bedroom in the unit. The window will be open in that room overnight with the door closed, to minimize AC wastage. Other windows will be on a daily overnight rotation. This will likely be harder on the electrical bill, but is what I've come up with for the Humans and the tank.

I'll report back in a week :)
 
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Pat613

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Also, my wife just mentioned the pH of the ATO water. It's in a loosely sealed container, and being RO, seems likely to absorb anything, including CO2. I've never checked, but dumping in a litre a day of low pH water can't be helping anything. I assume it's 7, but should test to be sure.
 

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OK, good to know. What should the water hit when aerated outside? At least 8ish correct? (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/). I use 250ml water, and run it for 1h, typically.
In my experience ~9.0dKh water fully aerated by 400ppm (outside) air should have pH of 8.2ish. I think there's calculators out there but it can depend a little on salt mix. I use IO.
 
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