Carbon Dosing with Vinegar - Questions about Nutrient Export

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yes, those were Matt's initial calculation with 2.5% AcOH concentration but if higher concentration of AcOH is taken (but still in the margin of error) then you can skip water from the formula.

My calculations from the same thread:

https://forums.reefcentral.com/threads/no3-po4-x-conversion-to-vinegar.1743203/page-8#post-26012537

OK, that's fair. :)

 

[nicodim55]

That is correct. This means in practice a lot more organic carbon is needed. It does not include what is needed for energy production. It reduces the risk for overdosing .

NH+4 + 1.18C6H12O6 + HCO−3 + 2.06O2 → C5H7O2N + 6.06H2O + 3.07CO2

This calculation predicts that for every gram of NH4-N converted to biomass, 8.07 grams of biomass and 9.65 grams of CO2 (2.63 grams of inorganic carbon) are produced and 3.57 grams of alkalinity (0.86 grams of inorganic carbon) are produced. ) and 4.71 grams of dissolved oxygen are consumed. Everything is maintained with the consumption of 15.17 grams of carbohydrates. ref: Ebling EnCo2006

I cannot expect agreement from an advocate and propagator of the use of carbohydrates such as vinegar, vodka, sugar, something I am blatantly against until the current evidence of harm to corals and other organisms cannot be refuted. This is regardless of the many known side effects that remain untreated by the propagists, side effects with major consequences. The lack of a scientifically based method of application and prevention of overdose in particular.

Yes plz, tell us what side effects and harm to the corals are u referring to? Like I said, I’ve been using this method for over 2 years and all I see is growth from my corals. Maybe it’s just me? Yes, I agree if not dosed properly it will kill corals. I had that experience with a known product Nopox. But I don’t blame them for my mistake of overdosing.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Yes plz, tell us what side effects and harm to the corals are u referring to? Like I said, I’ve been using this method for over 2 years and all I see is growth from my corals. Maybe it’s just me? Yes, I agree if not dosed properly it will kill corals. I had that experience with a known product Nopox. But I don’t blame them for my mistake of overdosing.

Nature provides 3 main pillars for supporting the carrying capacity of a closed life support system. As a manager one has the choice. If the system is made mainly heterotrophic one must be aware the other 2 pillars will not be available.
It is a choice to make the load-bearing capacity dependent on the support of only one pillar. The other side effects mainly concern overdose. Therefore, adding carbohydrates is only advisable if one has the necessary knowledge to correctly adjust the dose to the needs. Following methods circulating on the internet do not prevent overdose and are even dangerous if based on nitrate levels. Fast growing bacteria do not use nitrate nitrogen and steal the nutrients and minerals from slower growing organisms. Correctly dosed it can contribute to the distribution of growth. But then the discussion opens about the use of a skimmer.

 

[nicodim55]

Nature provides 3 main pillars for supporting the carrying capacity of a closed life support system. As a manager one has the choice. If the system is made mainly heterotrophic one must be aware the other 2 pillars will not be available.
It is a choice to make the load-bearing capacity dependent on the support of only one pillar. The other side effects mainly concern overdose. Therefore, adding carbohydrates is only advisable if one has the necessary knowledge to correctly adjust the dose to the needs. Following methods circulating on the internet do not prevent overdose and are even dangerous if based on nitrate levels. Fast growing bacteria do not use nitrate nitrogen and steal the nutrients and minerals from slower growing organisms. Correctly dosed it can contribute to the distribution of growth. But then the discussion opens about the use of a skimmer.

So, what are the 3 pillars you are referring to? I’m no expert so I just need clarification. I’m sure I’m not the only one that needs clarification. Thx

 

[Belgian Anthias]

So, what are the 3 pillars you are referring to? I’m no expert so I just need clarification. I’m sure I’m not the only one that needs clarification. Thx

It is basic knowledge. I did add links ( blue) . The carrying capacity is defined by the ability to reduce ammonia. Ammonia is reduced by 1. heterotrophic bacterial growth, (re)mineralisation. 2. autotrophic bacterial growth, nitrification, 3 photo-autotrophic growth, photosynthesis.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Nature provides 3 main pillars for supporting the carrying capacity of a closed life support system. As a manager one has the choice. If the system is made mainly heterotrophic one must be aware the other 2 pillars will not be available.
It is a choice to make the load-bearing capacity dependent on the support of only one pillar. The other side effects mainly concern overdose. Therefore, adding carbohydrates is only advisable if one has the necessary knowledge to correctly adjust the dose to the needs. Following methods circulating on the internet do not prevent overdose and are even dangerous if based on nitrate levels. Fast growing bacteria do not use nitrate nitrogen and steal the nutrients and minerals from slower growing organisms. Correctly dosed it can contribute to the distribution of growth. But then the discussion opens about the use of a skimmer.

Again, that is a demonstrably incorrect comment since in many reef tanks, such as mine, those all operate, and there is no reason they wouldn’t.

 

[nicodim55]

It is basic knowledge. I did add links ( blue) . The carrying capacity is defined by the ability to reduce ammonia. Ammonia is reduced by 1. heterotrophic bacterial growth, (re)mineralisation. 2. autotrophic bacterial growth, nitrification, 3 photo-autotrophic growth, photosynthesis.

My system and carbon dosing accomplishes all that. That’s also common knowledge when one’s system is balanced and matured.

 

[dpfriedman]

Bit of an off topic but why in this DIY recipes there is always RO/DI water added? Vinegar is 95% water , I don't think there is a need to dilute it more even if 80 proof vodka is used.

You’d have to ask Red Sea as this formula is a near exact replica of NoPox.

 

[biom]

I guess I am the last person they will be happy to reveal their secrets :D
And no, the DIY version is not exact replica of the Red Sea’s product.
But there is no need to be exact replica. Red Sea didn’t invent this product they just commercialized something fellow reefers were using for many years.
And also there’s a chance RS changed their recipe or concentration after we revealed the ingredients some 10 years ago (at least they have put a label saying there’s methanol in the product:))