Cardinal is acting strange!

[reddevilant]

Hello! I don't have any experience with fish disease so I'm here looking for help/advice for something that may or may not be an issue. One of my two Seale's Cardinals has been acting strange today. As you can see in the video (youtube link posted below), every so often it will swim up to the bottom of my HOB filter, face its rear end towards it, and then kind of wiggle its fins. Other than that, it has been eating well and swims with no issues, it looks pretty darn healthy to me. Some things I have noticed is that it has quite a plump belly (not to the point that it is looks problematic) and has gotten a little aggressive towards the other Seale's cardinal. The fin wiggling also kind of looks similar to videos I've seen of fish spawning. I could be totally wrong but, could it be holding eggs and trying to lay them on the underside of the filter? Thanks for any info and advice!

 

[reddevilant]

Or could it be having trouble pooping?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Or could it be having trouble pooping?

At the start of the video, I was thinking swim bladder disease. The fish was head down and shaking. Then, midway through the video, it totally stopped doing that and was fine, even pecking at some food. My conclusion is that it is full of eggs. The behavior is premating behavior. However, cardinalfish reproduction is complicated - is this species a mouthbrooder? IDK, but I suspect it is. If so, it needs the male's attention to complete the reproductive act.

Jay

 

[reddevilant]

At the start of the video, I was thinking swim bladder disease. The fish was head down and shaking. Then, midway through the video, it totally stopped doing that and was fine, even pecking at some food. My conclusion is that it is full of eggs. The behavior is premating behavior. However, cardinalfish reproduction is complicated - is this species a mouthbrooder? IDK, but I suspect it is. If so, it needs the male's attention to complete the reproductive act.

Jay

Yeah that's why I thought it was so weird. When I was feeding them it came right over, swimming completely fine. Then when it got its fill, it willingly swam right over to that spot and started doing that. Thank you so much!

Now the only thing that has me slightly concerned is that it has been kind of aggressive to the other Seale's cardinal, enough that the other one usually stays on the opposite side of the tank. Sometimes they have no issue being near each other, usually during feeding time. The aggression only started about a month or so ago, before that they were completely fine and swam together along with my Longspine cardinals. So could I have two female Seale's or is that behavior normal between a male and female. I had been considering moving one of them to my 40g tank because of the aggression but now I'm not sure.

 

[reddevilant]

Also, the scientific name is Ostorhinchus sealei and it seems to be classified as in the Kurtiformes family so I believe it may be a mouth brooder.

 

[reddevilant]

Sorry for all the questions but I keep thinking of more lol. Would they develop eggs no matter what if it is breeding season for them? If so, could that mean the other Seale's is a male since it is not exhibiting the same behavior nor does it have a plump belly like the one in the video?

 

[threebuoys]

Sorry for all the questions but I keep thinking of more lol. Would they develop eggs no matter what if it is breeding season for them? If so, could that mean the other Seale's is a male since it is not exhibiting the same behavior nor does it have a plump belly like the one in the video?

My banggai cardnals spawned about every 30 to 45 days for a long time, and may still be doing it. The male carries the eggs in his mouth. My experience has been that the male either eats or spits out the eggs after 2 or three days, so I don't pay as much attention to it now.

 

[reddevilant]

My banggai cardnals spawned about every 30 to 45 days for a long time, and may still be doing it. The male carries the eggs in his mouth. My experience has been that the male either eats or spits out the eggs after 2 or three days, so I don't pay as much attention to it now.

Thanks for the info! I've had these cardinals for nearly a year now and this is the first time I've seen this happen. If there's a chance to have babies I really want to try and make it happen as this would be my first breeding experience. I sent an email this morning to BIOTA because that's where I originally got them, so hopefully they have some insight for this particular species.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Also, the scientific name is Ostorhinchus sealei and it seems to be classified as in the Kurtiformes family so I believe it may be a mouth brooder.

Yes - I just checked on Fishbase, they are mouthbrooders.

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

Hello! I don't have any experience with fish disease so I'm here looking for help/advice for something that may or may not be an issue. One of my two Seale's Cardinals has been acting strange today. As you can see in the video (youtube link posted below), every so often it will swim up to the bottom of my HOB filter, face its rear end towards it, and then kind of wiggle its fins. Other than that, it has been eating well and swims with no issues, it looks pretty darn healthy to me. Some things I have noticed is that it has quite a plump belly (not to the point that it is looks problematic) and has gotten a little aggressive towards the other Seale's cardinal. The fin wiggling also kind of looks similar to videos I've seen of fish spawning. I could be totally wrong but, could it be holding eggs and trying to lay them on the underside of the filter? Thanks for any info and advice!

Questions:

1. How long have you had them.
2. Were they quarantined?
3. Any other fish sick?
4. Its hard to tell from the video - is the fish hanging out near the HOB or is it hanging out near what looks like a pump?

I dont see any lesions and you're right it does almost look like fish do when they are thinking about spawning.

@fishguy242 @vetteguy53081 @nereefpat

 

[nereefpat]

That doesn't look like disease behavior to me at all. I don't have experience with cardinals, beyond bangaii and pajama. I would guess it to be related to spawning too.

Please keep us posted.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Cardinals especially banghai male can get good and mean at spawning time and go from peaceful to territorial and often vibrating their body towards their mate
Eggs in mouth remain for about 20 days before release

 

[reddevilant]

Questions:

1. How long have you had them.
2. Were they quarantined?
3. Any other fish sick?
4. Its hard to tell from the video - is the fish hanging out near the HOB or is it hanging out near what looks like a pump?

I dont see any lesions and you're right it does almost look like fish do when they are thinking about spawning.

@fishguy242 @vetteguy53081 @nereefpat

That doesn't look like disease behavior to me at all. I don't have experience with cardinals, beyond bangaii and pajama. I would guess it to be related to spawning too.

Please keep us posted.

Cardinals especially banghai male can get good and mean at spawning time and go from peaceful to territorial and often vibrating their body towards their mate
Eggs in mouth remain for about 20 days before release

Oops, I meant to update this thread over the weekend. Hi guys! So the day after I posted this I was able to get in contact with someone from BIOTA, the company that breeds this species and the company I got the fish from, but through Algae Barn. Someone by the name of Jake responded to my email to them and he was awesome! He had also concluded from looking at the video that the fish was carrying eggs and looking to spawn. Because the fish looked very close to spawning and releasing the eggs, he also typed out a whole crash course in fish husbandry since I had mentioned I've never had experience with this. So that was really cool!

He also requested pictures of the other cardinal to try and determine the sex, which I sent a couple days later. Unfortunately, it looks like the other Seale's is also a female, so no Cardinal babies. Since then, it looks like the egg-filled cardinal released the eggs since she was not so plump anymore and no longer exhibiting the spawning behavior. So, without a male to carry and fertilize them, they were likely eaten by the other tank inhabitants.

Since then, the aggression has died down and the two swim together again with no one exhibiting any weird behaviors. I assume since they both seem to be female, that reproductive competition was the root of the aggression. I haven't heard back yet but, I did ask if it would be possible to request a male if I place an order when they are back in stock. I really would like to try and successfully breed them at least once because I think it would be a really cool experience! Also, I recently got a really young Yellow-Striped Cardinal and plan to get Ochre-striped Cardinals in the future. They're both the same genus as the Seale's so maybe there could possibly be hybrid babies in the future in the absence of a male Seale's lol. That would be really interesting!

Thank you all for checking in and offering your insight! I really appreciate it!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Oops, I meant to update this thread over the weekend. Hi guys! So the day after I posted this I was able to get in contact with someone from BIOTA, the company that breeds this species and the company I got the fish from, but through Algae Barn. Someone by the name of Jake responded to my email to them and he was awesome! He had also concluded from looking at the video that the fish was carrying eggs and looking to spawn. Because the fish looked very close to spawning and releasing the eggs, he also typed out a whole crash course in fish husbandry since I had mentioned I've never had experience with this. So that was really cool!

He also requested pictures of the other cardinal to try and determine the sex, which I sent a couple days later. Unfortunately, it looks like the other Seale's is also a female, so no Cardinal babies. Since then, it looks like the egg-filled cardinal released the eggs since she was not so plump anymore and no longer exhibiting the spawning behavior. So, without a male to carry and fertilize them, they were likely eaten by the other tank inhabitants.

Since then, the aggression has died down and the two swim together again with no one exhibiting any weird behaviors. I assume since they both seem to be female, that reproductive competition was the root of the aggression. I haven't heard back yet but, I did ask if it would be possible to request a male if I place an order when they are back in stock. I really would like to try and successfully breed them at least once because I think it would be a really cool experience! Also, I recently got a really young Yellow-Striped Cardinal and plan to get Ochre-striped Cardinals in the future. They're both the same genus as the Seale's so maybe there could possibly be hybrid babies in the future in the absence of a male Seale's lol. That would be really interesting!

Thank you all for checking in and offering your insight! I really appreciate it!

As suspected- good deal