CaRx out of control

[AquamanE]

Been running this CaRx for ~1.5 years. Past month or two I can’t get it to where I want. I was able to keep it with ALK around 8.5, but all of a sudden its in the 10.5 to 11 DKH range.

PH to turn on reactor is at 7.9, off at 8.9. Tank Ph runs 8.0- 8.2 so I cant increase it more, or can I?

Corals are growing like crazy!! But I’m afraid of such a high ALK. It’s being measured by Trident, and I have confirmed results with HANNA. Effluent if being managed with a Kamoer continuous duty peristalsis pump at approx 30ml/min. CaRx is on a Carbon Doser with bubble count at like 3-4 seconds for bubble count.

Suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[P-Dub]

Been running this CaRx for ~1.5 years. Past month or two I can’t get it to where I want. I was able to keep it with ALK around 8.5, but all of a sudden its in the 10.5 to 11 DKH range.

PH to turn on reactor is at 7.9, off at 8.9. Tank Ph runs 8.0- 8.2 so I cant increase it more, or can I?

Corals are growing like crazy!! But I’m afraid of such a high ALK. It’s being measured by Trident, and I have confirmed results with HANNA. Effluent if being managed with a Kamoer continuous duty peristalsis pump at approx 30ml/min. CaRx is on a Carbon Doser with bubble count at like 3-4 seconds for bubble count.

Suggestions would be appreciated.

Increase the effluent rate and decrease bubble count. Also, how is the media level in the reactor?

 

[Fishfinder]

With a ph of 7.9 in the reactor your likely not dissolving any media. Are you sure that number is correct?

 

[scchase]

Needs to run off the ph inside the reactor not of the tank

 

[nitrodude]

What's your reactor PH?
Turn your bubble rate to a higher number gradually until your alk stays steady. Lower alk with water change.

 

[AquamanE]

Increase the effluent rate and decrease bubble count. Also, how it the media level in the reactor?

So you saying extend the time between bubbles so i get less per minute?

With a ph of 7.9 in the reactor your likely not dissolving any media. Are you sure that number is correct?

Ive been considering recalibration the probe. Its like 6 months old. Calibrated with 7 and 4 ph fluid. Yes it is CaRx probe not tank probe.

Media is at ~2/3. Last filled 14 months ago.

 

[C. Eymann]

Wha?????

Stop using a pH controller to run your reactor for #1

stop chasing pH in reactor, stop looking at the tanks pH, start testing your tanks alk!

Test your tanks alk at the same scheduled time every day and make your adjustments to effluent and bubble count as needed until you each the point where it is no longer falling or rising.




Calcium reactors were never designed to be "ran" by a pH controller, thats why some dont even come with probe ports

 

[foxt]

You definitely need to recalibrate your probe and then let us know what the pH is. If the CaRx is the only source of alk for your tank, and alk is increasing, then the reactor pH has to be low enough to be melting the media. But what is confusing is that you say that "pH to turn on reactor is at 7.9, off at 8.9". Is that correct, or did you mean to put in different numbers?

If the alk is really +2 over where you had it set originally, you are adding more alk in than you are consuming. What level is your Ca at now, and has it also been increasing?

 

[AquamanE]

Wha?????

Stop using a pH controller to run your reactor for #1

stop chasing pH in reactor, stop looking at the tanks pH, start testing your tanks alk!

Test your tanks alk at the same scheduled time every day and make your adjustments to effluent and bubble count as needed until you each the point where it is no longer falling or rising.




Calcium reactors were never designed to be "ran" by a pH controller, thats why some dont even come with probe ports

Confused- So if not with ph controller when does co2 start and stop? I cant adjust co2 bubbles if i dont have any.

Also confused on bubble count- with the Carbon dozer, an electronic dozer, you adjust bubbles per second. If alk rises do i increase or decrease bubbles per secon?

Tank alk is measure every 6 hours.

Thanks to all for relies so far. Appreciated.

 

[AquamanE]

You definitely need to recalibrate your probe and then let us know what the pH is. If the CaRx is the only source of alk for your tank, and alk is increasing, then the reactor pH has to be low enough to be melting the media. But what is confusing is that you say that "pH to turn on reactor is at 7.9, off at 8.9". Is that correct, or did you mean to put in different numbers?

If the alk is really +2 over where you had it set originally, you are adding more alk in than you are consuming. What level is your Ca at now, and has it also been increasing?

Sorry- CaRx co2 turns on at 7.9, off at 7.8. Calcium hovers 440-470, again measured every 6 hours bY Triden, Mg is also within normal limits.

 

[C. Eymann]

Confused- So if not with ph controller when does co2 start and stop? I cant adjust co2 bubbles if i dont have any.

Also confused on bubble count- with the Carbon dozer, an electronic dozer, you adjust bubbles per second. If alk rises do i increase or decrease bubbles per secon?

Tank alk is measure every 6 hours.

Thanks to all for relies so far. Appreciated.

your tuning (bubble count / effluent rate) should run the reactor/control the pH of a reactor not the CO2 cut off solenoid/ph controller.

dont pay attention to reactor pH, pay attention to tanks alk while tuning (seconds per bubble and effluent rate) once you reach that homeostasis where Alk is neither falling or raising for a few days. Then you can set your controller to close CO2 at a certain fallback point.
example - let's say you reach that homeostasis point and your reactor pH is hovering around 6.6 -6.7 then have your controller set to turn CO2 off at 6.4 and on at 6.5 as an emergency fallback only !

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

your tuning (bubble count / effluent rate) should run the reactor/control the pH of a reactor not the CO2 cut off solenoid/ph controller.

dont pay attention to reactor pH, pay attention to tanks alk while tuning (seconds per bubble and effluent rate) once you reach that homeostasis where Alk is neither falling or raising for a few days. Then you can set your controller to close CO2 at a certain fallback point.
example - let's say you reach that homeostasis point and your reactor pH is hovering around 6.6 -6.7 then have your controller set to turn CO2 off at 6.4 and on at 6.5 as an emergency fallback only !

there are several ways to run a reactor. Bubble count and pH controlling both work.

 

[C. Eymann]

there are several ways to run a reactor. Bubble count and pH controlling both work.

Some reactors do not run correctly if bubble count is too fast and the user is relying on a solenoid / controller, it is also not as efficient or consistent as running a reactor on the tuning alone without any interference from a controller.

 

[SeaDweller]

Wha?????

Stop using a pH controller to run your reactor for #1

stop chasing pH in reactor, stop looking at the tanks pH, start testing your tanks alk!

Test your tanks alk at the same scheduled time every day and make your adjustments to effluent and bubble count as needed until you each the point where it is no longer falling or rising.




Calcium reactors were never designed to be "ran" by a pH controller, thats why some dont even come with probe ports

Bingo. I no longer use a controller to run my carx. Mine runs 24/7 and has co2 injected 24/7.

 

[foxt]

Sorry- CaRx co2 turns on at 7.9, off at 7.8. Calcium hovers 440-470, again measured every 6 hours bY Triden, Mg is also within normal limits.

Please post the pH of the reactor after you calibrate the probe. Something doesn't seem quite right.

As Randy has said, there is more than one way to successfully run a CaRx. If your alk really rose +2 over time and you did not intend it to do so, you first need to figure out what went wrong with the method you had chosen. You mentioned that it was stable for a long time, so if it was working for you before, you can stick with it. As others have said, there may be "better" ways to run it, but first find out what went wrong and then decide how you want to proceed.

Are you going to try to drop alk back down to 8.5 and then keep it there, or will you just maintain it at the current levels in the future?

 

[SeaDweller]

Confused- So if not with ph controller when does co2 start and stop? I cant adjust co2 bubbles if i dont have any.

Also confused on bubble count- with the Carbon dozer, an electronic dozer, you adjust bubbles per second. If alk rises do i increase or decrease bubbles per secon?

Tank alk is measure every 6 hours.

Thanks to all for relies so far. Appreciated.

The best way I've found to run my CaRx is to simply run it 24/7. You're injecting CO2 24/7 but you're controlling the effluent alk with effluent flow and injection/bubbles per minute. To give you an example, I run my tank alk at 7.6, and sometimes it drifts down to 7.3, but it's been this stable for months while running the CaRx 24/7. When I was using a controller, it would bounce around, 7.3-7.6-7.85-8.0-8.2 with a set ph point, but ever since going to this old school method (I guess we can call it that?), it's in a tight 7.3-7.6 range.

So right now, my effluent is 125 ml/min and my injection rate is about 95-100 bubbles/min. Almost a 1:1 ratio, 1.25:1. So this is the homeostasis @C. Eymann is talking about. When my demand goes up and I need to up my effluent flow, to say 150 ml/min or 200 ml/min or whatever, I'd just increase the bpm to whatever that ratio was to achieve the homeostasis ( 150/1.25 = 120 bpm).

Hands down the best way to tune a reactor, I'd ditch the controller (I no longer use my Apex or Milwaukee).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Some reactors do not run correctly if bubble count is too fast and the user is relying on a solenoid / controller, it is also not as efficient or consistent as running a reactor on the tuning alone without any interference from a controller.

what is the basis for this claim?

 

[C. Eymann]

what is the basis for this claim?

It's the original way, for one, daniel knop to my knowledge was responsible for making the first calcium reactors in Germany, they were never intended to be used with pH controllers actually running the reactor, they used a collection cup to test effluent pH during tuning for reference, pH controllers are only meant to go off at a certain threshold if something goes wonky with the original tune like bubble count getting changed or effluent line clogging.
certain ones, European brands like Schuran Korallin, Knop will not respond well to CO2 dump/pH controlled tunes, they are not plumbed like american built reactors that recirculate excess CO² because when they are used /tuned correctly it shouldnt be accumulating CO².

Sure, you can successfully run a reactor off a pH controller/CO² dump method, but it's much easier to just tune the reactor correctly and have the pH controller be a JIC shut off.

I have tuned many reactors of my own and for clients and friends. When I started out using reactors I did the CO2 dump/controller running the reactor for a few years with success until I got my first Korallin, it would never work correctly, I read the translated version of the owners manual and tuned it without a pH controller intervening and it was so much easier to dial in, I have setup/tuned an MRC and several Geos for clients/friends this way and all much easier, quicker to dial in and much fewer issues than back in the day when I was using pH controllers to run my reactor.
I believe it's how calcium reactors were originally designed to be run, every user that switches from having a pH controller run their reactor to having a fine tune running their reactor have praised it to be easier and more consistent.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It's the original way, for one, daniel knop to my knowledge was responsible for making the first calcium reactors in Germany, they were never intended to be used with pH controllers actually running the reactor, they used a collection cup to test effluent pH during tuning for reference, pH controllers are only meant to go off at a certain threshold if something goes wonky with the original tune like bubble count getting changed or effluent line clogging.
certain ones, European brands like Schuran Korallin, Knop will not respond well to CO2 dump/pH controlled tunes, they are not plumbed like american built reactors that recirculate excess CO² because when they are used /tuned correctly it shouldnt be accumulating CO².

Sure, you can successfully run a reactor off a pH controller/CO² dump method, but it's much easier to just tune the reactor correctly and have the pH controller be a JIC shut off.

I have tuned many reactors of my own and for clients and friends. When I started out using reactors I did the CO2 dump/controller running the reactor for a few years with success until I got my first Korallin, it would never work correctly, I read the translated version of the owners manual and tuned it without a pH controller intervening and it was so much easier to dial in, I have setup/tuned an MRC and several Geos for clients/friends this way and all much easier, quicker to dial in and much fewer issues than back in the day when I was using pH controllers to run my reactor.
I believe it's how calcium reactors were originally designed to be run, every user that switches from having a pH controller run their reactor to having a fine tune running their reactor have praised it to be easier and more consistent.

I know is it’s the original way and I know it works well. It’s the assertion that it works better than pH control which I question.

I expect the specific implementation of both methods matters more than which is used.

 

[ndrwater]

I personally use a hybrid method. While I do run a Carbondoser regulator, I don't do a "bubble count" per say. I also run a very quick stream on my effluent line and maintain a relatively high PH in the reactor. Monitoring the ALK in the tank is to me the most important. Kind of why I run a CaRx in the first place.
I adjust using the carbondoser and or the flow in the effluent line. If the tank ALK drops, up the carbondoser frequency. If the ALK rises, up the effluent rate. Makes it easy for my simple brain.
I have also noticed that the lower the media gets in the reactor, the more fiddling it takes.
I ran my GEO 818 for the last couple years without having to mess much until the media got down the 15%+/- range. Since refilling the media (Reborn) it only took me a couple days to get things locked in again.
Having the pH probe run via Apex just made it easier to monitor that the reactor wasn't bouncing all over the place, but testing the tank using Hanna was how I know I got things right.