Catching banggai cardinals

[q8cyu]

My banggai cardinals have eggs close to hatching, he has a reputation of eating the eggs (9 times) I was wondering if anyone has any tips for catching him or a idea on how to make some fish traps for him.
My problem is since he has eggs food won’t lure him so how would traps work, so far I’ve used nets but it’s occasionally destructive, takes time and a lot of luck and lots of times it doesn’t work.
Any ideas, should I leave him alone and see if he won’t eat the eggs this time,
thanks
Edit; my problem is not him not eating. Once he spits the eggs he begins to eat when food is available. Think I made it a bit confusing sorry, I need a good way to catch him so the babies and/or eggs don’t get eaten.
He currently looks to have some eggs

 

[Stealthreefer]

Try to over feed him if it's possible. I couldn't tell from your post if he's eating but just not leaving the eggs or if he's not eating.

 

[q8cyu]

Try to over feed him if it's possible. I couldn't tell from your post if he's eating but just not leaving the eggs or if he's not eating.

When cardinals have eggs they mouth brood and don’t eat for around 30 days.

 

[Stealthreefer]

So then he gets hungry and eats them? How do you get him away from the eggs?

 

[q8cyu]

So then he gets hungry and eats them? How do you get him away from the eggs?

What either happens is I catch him and he spits out the eggs or he’ll naturally spit out the eggs when they are ready.
The problem is he always (or at least up until now) eats the eggs before he lets them go naturally. I would need to intervene.

 

[DaJMasta]

They can eat them if they are scared, or if they know the eggs are no longer viable.

I caught mine in a clear acrylic trap, after a few times it took longer, but some corralling with nets in strategic spots helped catch him in the trap. Then from the trap, I transferred him to a mesh breeder box in the same tank with a place to hide - minimizing the stress of catching and transport to hopefully minimize eating of the eggs.

Even in a small space, he won't eat immediately after spitting them out, so you should have maybe half a day at least to see there are babies around and let him out of the box.

 

[JayM]

Not sure if this works with all fish, but it’s worth a try if he doesn’t sleep deep in a rock somewhere.

Tank lights out, go to bed for the night. Wake up a couple hours before sunrise and shine a bright flashlight into the tank. You should be able to scoop him out with your hand.

It’s the only method that worked for me when trying to catch a clownfish that turned into a PITA towards his tank mates. And I had to do it twice because he got out of the isolation box while I was waiting for the LFS to open so I could re-home him.

 

[q8cyu]

Not sure if this works with all fish, but it’s worth a try if he doesn’t sleep deep in a rock somewhere.

Tank lights out, go to bed for the night. Wake up a couple hours before sunrise and shine a bright flashlight into the tank. You should be able to scoop him out with your hand.

It’s the only method that worked for me when trying to catch a clownfish that turned into a PITA towards his tank mates. And I had to do it twice because he got out of the isolation box while I was waiting for the LFS to open so I could re-home him.

I’ll try this, thanks.

 

[DaJMasta]

I wouldn't expect a catch-while-asleep option to work as Banggai's don't sleep, they're more active at night than during the day and just go into a lower energy mode an hang out somewhere in place of sleeping.

 

[q8cyu]

So then he gets hungry and eats them? How do you get him away from the eggs?

I don’t know The exact Radeon he eats the eggs. Could be because he got hungry or the eggs went bad or another reason.
The way I currently get him away from the eggs is catch him in a net and he spits out the eggs or open the mouth. (Similar to freshwater cichlids) this method works but takes luck, time, a few attempts at different times, and often involves me knocking down a small frag.
I’m looking for a better method or tips to do the net method better.

 

[q8cyu]

I wouldn't expect a catch-while-asleep option to work as Banggai's don't sleep, they're more active at night than during the day and just go into a lower energy mode an hang out somewhere in place of sleeping.

Doesn’t hurt to try I guess, I have seen them be a bit more sluggish when the lights are off but, I think you may be right.

 

[q8cyu]

Here’s a picture if it helps, they are the eggs, I have 4 and I think the cardinal has about a dozen more that I missed.
Sorry it’s a bit blurry and dirty, can’t really clean the tumbler with dry inside

 

[DaJMasta]

It's likely that catching him earlier on will help reduce the risk as well, mine tended to be hatching out and visible moving around in his mouth around day 21 (this will be heat and fish dependent), so I would aim to catch him a couple days before, when still a single egg mass. I think it's easier to lose some (or have them coughed out into the display) when they've hatched out, and they will all be connected as a single mass for most of the time.

The picture you've got is early hatched fry, the large round part is the yolk and the tail is visible - they will have nearly no yolk and will be much more like the shape of an adult when they have a swim bladder and are able to eat, but these early stage ones can still swim in bursts and in my experience should be just left in a protected area with very little flow.

About where yours are at, maybe a little later.

And that's one probably a day older, with a little bit more color and tail, but still mostly yolk and no digestive system or swim bladder yet. Still an earlier spit out fry than they intend, ideally the male waits until they have a swim bladder before spitting them out, but some are always at risk of escaping early.

 

[q8cyu]

It's likely that catching him earlier on will help reduce the risk as well, mine tended to be hatching out and visible moving around in his mouth around day 21 (this will be heat and fish dependent), so I would aim to catch him a couple days before, when still a single egg mass. I think it's easier to lose some (or have them coughed out into the display) when they've hatched out, and they will all be connected as a single mass for most of the time.

The picture you've got is early hatched fry, the large round part is the yolk and the tail is visible - they will have nearly no yolk and will be much more like the shape of an adult when they have a swim bladder and are able to eat, but these early stage ones can still swim in bursts and in my experience should be just left in a protected area with very little flow.

About where yours are at, maybe a little later.

And that's one probably a day older, with a little bit more color and tail, but still mostly yolk and no digestive system or swim bladder yet. Still an earlier spit out fry than they intend, ideally the male waits until they have a swim bladder before spitting them out, but some are always at risk of escaping early.

Thanks, these eggs were caught at exactly day 21 and were all connected. I got around 10 eggs and 6 have died. And the cardinal seems to still have eggs as his mouth is still inflated and he is not eating.

What I would like to do is see if there is a better method than netting him when 3 weeks have passed, would you recommend a method, would they swim into traps willingly?
Thanks

 

[DaJMasta]

If the trap is completely transparent, they can see it but won't always notice, so they can swim in unintentionally. My female actually swam in on her own to hang out a good bit - in a trap is a lower flow area, which during the day they usually prefer, so usually she'd be in there a few times before I could get the male in there too. When it got late and I hadn't gotten him, though, I would set up nets around escape routes and then gently move one in from the back, trying to sort of herd them into the trap. Worked reasonably well, and the trick is sort of never to get them worked up enough to be darting around, so it's more like gradually cutting off other options. This makes it somewhat less stressful, but also lets you try again fairly soon if they manage to get out - they will realize the net is the thing to stay away from if they're being chased by it, and it will be that much more difficult, and as you've noticed, baiting really can't work on a male carrying eggs. And I would aim for day 19 or 20 rather than 21, though it may be that you drop in the trap on the 19th and don't expect to actually get anything until a day or two from then. Patience and letting them get used to it for a while helps.

I never really got to the point of tumbling the egg mass, but I think that is the right approach, as it's basically what he does as well. I don't think I've seen an egg mass that all hatches out (though some are 95% or so hatch rate), and I've seen more than a few what look like fully formed fry ready to hatch that just never make it out. I don't know what the maximum time is between the first and last hatch, but I expect it to be a day or less.

 

[q8cyu]

If the trap is completely transparent, they can see it but won't always notice, so they can swim in unintentionally. My female actually swam in on her own to hang out a good bit - in a trap is a lower flow area, which during the day they usually prefer, so usually she'd be in there a few times before I could get the male in there too. When it got late and I hadn't gotten him, though, I would set up nets around escape routes and then gently move one in from the back, trying to sort of herd them into the trap. Worked reasonably well, and the trick is sort of never to get them worked up enough to be darting around, so it's more like gradually cutting off other options. This makes it somewhat less stressful, but also lets you try again fairly soon if they manage to get out - they will realize the net is the thing to stay away from if they're being chased by it, and it will be that much more difficult, and as you've noticed, baiting really can't work on a male carrying eggs. And I would aim for day 19 or 20 rather than 21, though it may be that you drop in the trap on the 19th and don't expect to actually get anything until a day or two from then. Patience and letting them get used to it for a while helps.

I never really got to the point of tumbling the egg mass, but I think that is the right approach, as it's basically what he does as well. I don't think I've seen an egg mass that all hatches out (though some are 95% or so hatch rate), and I've seen more than a few what look like fully formed fry ready to hatch that just never make it out. I don't know what the maximum time is between the first and last hatch, but I expect it to be a day or less.

Yeah, I think the eggs I missed are closing in on day 27, the eggs did I did take out hatched about a day in between, I try to see if a trap works
I’ll see if it is possible to make one rather than buy one.
I’ll post an update when either they get released or I catch him
Thanks.

 

[littlefoxx]

Not sure if youve tried this but I kinds dive bomb fish in a super fast motion and scare them into a net Ive placed in the path they would dart. Catch tangs with this method all the time, sometimes I knock my rocks over sometimes not

 

[StatelineReefer]

You say this cardinal is eating the eggs, but cardinals also keep the fry in their mouth for up to a week after hatching. Many times they will look like small versions of adults before you see them outside the male. Have you made a simulated longspine urchin? Or do you have a longspine urchin he will release the fry into? Do you keep him separated as soon as he's brooding? While he is brooding, does he have adequate places to hide? Is the water oxygenated enough? Do you have water quality issues that might affect the proper formation of the young in the egg? What diet are you feeding the pair when they ARE both eating. Is it nourishing enough to sustain the male during the entire brooding cycle?

I know that's a lot of questions, and there's more contributing factors I'm not considering right now, but you should see if one or more of these factors in the future brings you success.

Or it could just be that particular cardinal has a taste for eggs...

 

[q8cyu]

You say this cardinal is eating the eggs, but cardinals also keep the fry in their mouth for up to a week after hatching. Many times they will look like small versions of adults before you see them outside the male. Have you made a simulated longspine urchin? Or do you have a longspine urchin he will release the fry into? Do you keep him separated as soon as he's brooding? While he is brooding, does he have adequate places to hide? Is the water oxygenated enough? Do you have water quality issues that might affect the proper formation of the young in the egg? What diet are you feeding the pair when they ARE both eating. Is it nourishing enough to sustain the male during the entire brooding cycle?

I know that's a lot of questions, and there's more contributing factors I'm not considering right now, but you should see if one or more of these factors in the future brings you success.

Or it could just be that particular cardinal has a taste for eggs...

I do not have a long spine urchin or a fake one I would like to add either soon. He is in the tank when brooding and I take him out around 3 weeks since he normally eats the eggs or stops having eggs and I never see the fry around week 3-4. There is 60lb of rock and tons of caves. I think the water is well oxygenated it falls into the sump and I have 2 wavemakes and a return. I only have nutrients as a problem With water quality. I feed very frozen food I can find. Including Mysis, spirulina mysis, brine, gut loaded brine, fish eggs, shrimp, squid, salmon, Rotifers, copopods, and a lot more (around 20 different types of food mixing. 1 1/2 -2 cubed a day

 

[q8cyu]

Not sure if youve tried this but I kinds dive bomb fish in a super fast motion and scare them into a net Ive placed in the path they would dart. Catch tangs with this method all the time, sometimes I knock my rocks over sometimes not

I haven’t tried it. I can try I just don’t want To know over rocks or corals. Thinking of making a fish trap out of a water bottle or something similar.
going to try to net him out soon. probably today or tomorrow.