Certified Quarantined Fish Shipped To Your Door...

[Lasse]

It is ridicules to compare an omnivore organism (us) with specialist. You do not feed your cat and dog with only vegitarian food and not your cows with hamburger. Its the same with many reef fishes - they are specialists - you need to feed them with the right food. A vegeterian fish - like tangs - have much longer intenstine than other fishes - feeding them with meaty foods will cause difficulties for the whole organism.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Aardvark1134]

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/clams-the-best-food-for-a-reef.520/

Not good for every fish but for lots of them. Seaweed for some others. Sponges too.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

K

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Yeah and I don't think people would be too happy if I went to the pet store every week for fish/birds/rabbits/guiena pigs to feed to my cats so they could have live food only. When my friends come over I feed my friends dead food...it's even cooked!

One time my cat brought me and regurgitate 5 baby gofers. I almost threw up.

 

[FishyDave]

The average LFS knows what they are doing - (though they might not always do it). In the days of the romans there was a saying 'caveat emptor'. (Let the buyer beware). Pretend I have to feed my family tonight - and I have a lion fish in a tank. Someone comes in and says - can I put it in with 6 chromes? The guy says 'yes'. is that right? NO. Is it ethical? No. Does it feed his family because he cant see aqua clear filters for 3x the price (due the internet) yes - which would you pick. Note - Good LFS do not do this. Im not defending it. But - when you all who buy hard goods from the internet - wonder why your LFS is giving bad information - consider this.

You are so right about dry goods. Between Chewy, Amazon, BRS and others, the day of dry goods at LFS are sadly over...kind of like Blockbusters. The worst part is some of the dry good makers are selling on Amazon for less than a LFS store can buy the products for. The only thing keeping a lot of LFS open is tank servicing. I'm guilty of ordering from Amazon because it's such a time saver.

 

[Aardvark1134]

Fishydave this is not new. My great uncle had a auto and tractor repair place for like 70 years. He used to go to walmart during sales to buy cases of oil because they were selling it cheaper than he could buy it. There is no place for anything in local stores unless it's something you need now, insist on putting your hands/eyes on the exact one you are getting, or something sucky to ship like a sectional coutch...although amazon did deliver my last sectional lol

 

[FishyDave]

I liked your post - but I think you're off base - I feed flake food lol.... and some frozen - there Is no magic. Do you go out and shoot the food for your wife/children? There is no difference between frozen and 'live food' except that it makes a good argument. Or? I mean the life expectancy between 1800 and 2000 has made a dramatic increase - yet the use of frozen food/sanitation has increased. Go figure....

I see what you are saying here and in some ways you are right, but it is also over simplifying the situation. For example Tangs. What is the best food for most tangs? Live Ogo keeps them the healthiest and most brightly colored, but only in live form. Obviously many of our fish live on frozen and dry food so it does work. Just not always the healthiest thing for longevity.

 

[Aardvark1134]

I feed my fish seaweed, frozen half clams, and frozen angel formula which is:
Sponge, casein, brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, mussels, fish eggs, squid, salmon eggs, spirulina, lecithin, carrageenan, choline chloride, magnesium sulfate, iron, paprika, fish oil, inositol, a-tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, calcium carbonate, biotin, calcium pantothenate, niacin, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), riboflavin (source of vitamin B2), L-ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), potassium iodide, vitamin A supplement, citric acid (preservative), folic acid, thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K3 activity), cobalt carbonate, vitamin B12 supplement

Those 3 have had all my fish thriving for long time.

 

[Tony Thompson]

Hello,

If others see that then I deeply apologize for being a little dramatic. But I do know all too well about the human health care service because I’m a first year residency in the trauma center. Yes hospitals are another that are greedy which ironically one of the reasons I choose where I’m at because it’s one of the few that will actually defer the entire bill if one doesn’t have the means to pay for it. In reality that’s about every one who makes less than 1 million a year. .

Hi @Sarah24! Although a little of topic for a reef forum. But I felt compelled to pass on my admiration for your hard work ethics towards your fellow country men / women. I served my self in the military, but I think those who work in healing the sick , give those who are dying some form of pain relief and dignity, without discrimination are the true patriots. Indeed the national Health Service in the UK is one of our greatest treasures. It continues to demand great effort and sacrifice, but it's worth every penny.

 

[Robert McCreary]

im sorry, this should be a de facto rule with no extra fees and it should be the same price as any uncertificated quarantined fish

 

[Aardvark1134]

If you read through the whole thread you will see there several of us that do not want fish that have been through several rounds of copper and several who don't want fish who grew up in a completely sterile area. Neither one solves the issue completely and in some ways can even make it worse.

 

[Robert McCreary]

If you read through the whole thread you will see there several of us that do not want fish that have been through several rounds of copper and several who don't want fish who grew up in a completely sterile area.

nope i didnt read the full thread, just answered once i sent in my vote

 

[MnFish1]

No plans, no motives, just a simple question from someone who would pay quite a bit more for quarantined fish and was wondering if others would as well!

Would you pay more for certificated quarantined fish that you could acclimate and drop straight in the tank? If so how much more would you pay? 2x 3x 5x?

I personally would pay up to 3x more.

Changed my vote - there is no way to certify it. AND It should be the responsibility of the seller to sell healthy tankmates. Since So many people are able to seemingly not use QT - my guess is that most of the problem here relates to the supplier...JMHO

EDIT - I changed my vote to I wouldn't pay extra.

 

[MnFish1]

I see what you are saying here and in some ways you are right, but it is also over simplifying the situation. For example Tangs. What is the best food for most tangs? Live Ogo keeps them the healthiest and most brightly colored, but only in live form. Obviously many of our fish live on frozen and dry food so it does work. Just not always the healthiest thing for longevity.

\FWIW -- I dont know do you? what is the best food for most tangs? You have no basis (as you admit) to say that live foods are the best for longevity.... Just a few points:

1. you dont know the lifespan of the average tang in the wild (i.e. out of the 1oo0's of tangs hatched you can't say that xxxxxx food is better (my guess (guess - yes guess) is that tank fed tangs do better than the average wild tang no matter what they're fed.

 

[Aardvark1134]

Honestly I would expect the average lifespan of a wild blue tang in the wild to be somewhere between days and weeks. Things that have 1000s of babies at a time do so because almost none of them will get to be an adult.

 

[Tony Thompson]

IMO the reason there is so much varied opinion around the topic of quarantine, is in the definition itself.

Put simply, Quarantine is to isolate a member or group from the general population for a period of time , generally, but not exclusively, for observation in an attempt to minimize the risk of cross contamination.

Just because you have never quarantined and never had an outbreak does not prove anything. Would you drive your car without a seat belt? I have been driving, for over 35 years and never had an accident where a seat belt would have made any difference. In the vast majority of cases it saves lives and or serious injury. I always wear my seatbelt no matter how inconvenient

I have never seen or heard of any argument that would contradict a simple quarantine period. A period of observation separate from the general population. The size of the quarantine tank should be calculated using common sense. You can feed the animal just the same as if it was in the main display (even collecting worms from your ocean if you have the time and access). You can even decorate and aquascape the tank the same if you wish. For all of those that advocate good diet to support an animals immune system then yes, I can't see how anyone would disagree. It makes common sense and in my opinion is part of the duty of care. However I can not see how a quarantine period impinges on this . You can still feed your animals this whilst in quarantine.

Prophylactic treatment, inoculation and therapeutic treatment are different subjects and should always be at the carers discretion and depend on sufficient knowledge of the procedures and treatments to be used. Also the provision of equipment suitable to make accurate calculations. Prophylactic treatment of ornamental marines, in my experience is strongly discouraged by veterinarians. That is why their ethics standards does not allow prescription for such methods.

Quarantine procedure should be the responsibility of the person to whom currently has a duty of care for the animal and any animals that it may come into contact with.

Truth is, in my experience as an LFS owner, the vast majority of people keeping marine ornamentals in aquariums (seperate from true hobbyists) just don't care and neither do a large part within the industry. They treat them like commodities, stack them high and sell them quick before they perish.

As I have mentioned before I quarantine all of my fish before going on sale in separate systems for a minimum of six weeks. All of the display aquariums are on separate systems to further eliminate contamination. The procedure of quarantine is at my discretion depending on circumstance and species.

I add a simple mark up to all of my QT fish. This is calculated by taking the cost involved during QT (electricity, medicine) for a given QT tank divided by the number of animals sharing that tank. In my experience this works out at around £30 for a 3 or 4 foot tank. To make a fair distribution of cost, fish are usually separated into tanks depending on retail value. But more importantly on compatibility. The vast majority of my animals are in the mid to high value bracket. It is not viable for me to QT low retail value animals as the economics would in my opinion render them to expensive to be appealing to my customers.

I have been saying for some time now, this great hobby of ours is in need of a big wake up call, before it's gone forever. Support captive breeding, ethically sourced livestock and reef restoration.

 

[MnFish1]

I have been saying for some time now, this great hobby of ours is in need of a big wake up call, before it's gone forever. Support captive breeding, ethically sourced livestock and reef restoration.

This sounds so happy and nice. That said - most fish can't *yet be captive bred, 'ethically sourced livestock' sounds like a commercial and 'reef restoration' = if indeed the reef is being damaged. by climate change is a myth. But

It sounds nice.

 

[Rilo]

I'd only pay more if I could get a live feed of the fish in qt at the facility otherwise how will I know that the fish I bought is qt'd? The honor system?

Even then I'd still be leaning towards not paying more. I haven't had issues with my fish's to the extent of having to qt.

 

[Musovski]

Personally i believe the shop should be treating fish regardless. @Pieces of the Ocean does a great job at making sure they treat their fish prior selling which is what makes them my top 3 LFS.

 

[Ike]

So true, if we are not willing to feed them what they eat in the wild how do we expect our fish to be healthy. This means live food, algae and other foods. It's an inconvenience to most of us to feed live, but if we demand the wholesaler and LFS do it, why shouldn't we expect the same of ourselves?

So not true... I used to own a frozen fish food company that was the first widely distributed high-quality frozen fish food that didn't use fish meal. I studied fish nutrition extensively, and while I don't see strictly flake food as being the best diet, it is at least good enough to grow many types of fish from juvenile to adult and having them look vividly colored and looking spectacularly healthy. I have a near show worthy powder brown and chevron tang that I've had for many years and grew from tiny juvenilles into near adults and have never seen a morsel of food other than mysis occasionally many years ago and now recently. In short, good quality flake food can be a very balanced diet for a fish. In fact it's far superior to feeding something like mysis or krill all the time.