Chaeto keeps dying... any help appreciated. I'm thinking it's my new setup.

[Scrubber_steve]

My comment on the nitrate was something that was explained to me by an Ogo farmer. When I took his advice regarding nitrate my cultures of ogo and chaeto stopped crashing. Perhaps your scrubber is more efficient at nitrogen fixation than our macro cultures in a vat style things we're doing...or maybe when you were getting a hobby test kit reading of zero you had more nitrate than when I was getting a hobby test kit reading of zero...or maybe I'm completely wrong and nitrate had nothing to do with my chaeto and ogo crashes.

I think its that the fish are well fed & pretty much continuously passing NH3/4 from the gills, so there's always that to feed on, & the NH3/4 is removed from the system rather than being nitrified into NO3

 

[Tft12]

I think its that the fish are well fed & pretty much continuously passing NH3/4 from the gills, so there's always that to feed on, & the NH3/4 is removed from the system rather than being nitrified into NO3

Certainly. Sounds like an excellent explanation.

The person @AlgaeBarn said chaeto can use nitrate. Is your opinion that chaeto can be nitrogen starved and subsequently die in a system with 25 ppm of nitrate? I mean that as a real question for my own education, not a rude rhetorical.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Certainly. Sounds like an excellent explanation.

The person @AlgaeBarn said chaeto can use nitrate. Is your opinion that chaeto can be nitrogen starved and subsequently die in a system with 25 ppm of nitrate? I mean that as a real question for my own education, not a rude rhetorical.

No. Algae just assimilate ammonia more easily.

 

[teller]

Certainly. Sounds like an excellent explanation.

The person @AlgaeBarn said chaeto can use nitrate. Is your opinion that chaeto can be nitrogen starved and subsequently die in a system with 25 ppm of nitrate? I mean that as a real question for my own education, not a rude rhetorical.

I think there is a possibility for this to happen. It seems that for nitrate reduction to ammonia in the algae cells it is necessary trace element Mo (Molybdenum). In case this element lacks I think this can happen, have nitrate available but not able to use it.

 

[Tft12]

No. Algae just assimilate ammonia more easily.

Then that doesn't support the logic that the solution to the dying chaeto would be removing the ceramic block...

...But this does

I think there is a possibility for this to happen. It seems that for nitrate reduction to ammonia in the algae cells it is necessary trace element Mo (Molybdenum). In case this element lacks I think this can happen, have nitrate available but not able to use it.

This is interesting @teller.

 

[teller]

Then that doesn't support the logic that the solution to the dying chaeto would be removing the ceramic block...

...But this does

This is interesting @teller.

I attached a study on this nitrate reductase.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Then that doesn't support the logic that the solution to the dying chaeto would be removing the ceramic block...

...But this does

This is interesting @teller.

I don't doubt that other factors are in play. It's just my experience that my scrubbers performance was affected by the marine pure in my system, that I couldn't bottom out no3 until the block was removed.
In any case, the blocks are useless for no3 reduction ( in my experience) * if the algae filtration is correctly designed marine pure is totally unnecessary

 

[Tft12]

It's just my experience that my scrubbers performance was affected by the marine pure in my system, that I couldn't bottom out no3 until the block was removed.

Your experience and @teller's paper amount to a nice explanation. I'll consider this in the future.

@Ignitros what does your molybdenum level look like?

 

[NS Mike D]

do a search of triton and chaeto. I recall reading threads with members having problems with keeping cheato on the triton method.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Your experience and @teller's paper amount to a nice explanation. I'll consider this in the future.

@Ignitros what does your molybdenum level look like?

I've never needed to dose molybdenum to get zero no3. Not saying its not important, just never been necessary

 

[Scrubber_steve]

do a search of triton and chaeto. I recall reading threads with members having problems with keeping cheato on the triton method.

It seems a temperamental algae, or maybe it a fuge thing?

 

[Tft12]

I've never needed to dose molybdenum to get zero no3. Not saying its not important, just never been necessary

According the explanation provided by you and Teller you wouldn't need to because your reasoning is that your nitrogenous waste is present as ammonia/ium rather than having been converted to nitrate - just those of us with the intentional bacterial nitrate factories like ceramic blocks. I really liked the story, don't go punching holes.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

According the explanation provided by you and Teller you wouldn't need to because your reasoning is that your nitrogenous waste is present as ammonia/ium rather than having been converted to nitrate - just those of us with the intentional bacterial nitrate factories like ceramic blocks. I really liked the story, don't go punching holes.

There is still residual no3 in the system. The algae doesn't get 100% of the ammonia

 

[NS Mike D]

It seems a temperamental algae, or maybe it a fuge thing?

I don't recall the outcome. I do get a ATS can grow algae and bacteria that can pull dissolved nitrogen whereas some other macro like cheato and corals can't. But that doesn't address your experience or the 25pps NO3 with the OP

 

[Tft12]

I think its that the fish are well fed & pretty much continuously passing NH3/4 from the gills, so there's always that to feed on, & the NH3/4 is removed from the system rather than being nitrified into NO3

There was even a smily there. It's got to hold up.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

There was even a smily there. It's got to hold up.

Perhaps you misunderstood that statement?
The ammonia assimilated isn't converted to no3, I didn't say the algae assimilate 100% of the ammonia available at any given time. A percentage will be nitrified

 

[Ignitros]

We have a lot of people running marine pure with chaeto with great success. Chaeto does like ammonia(nitrate it has to interconvert to ammonia within the cell), but nitrates work just fine for growth.

Can you post your triton test results? I am interested in your Fe, Mn, and your K levels. I am also interested in your pH, and dkH levels.

I haven't submitted a Triton ICP in 6 months so I don't have anything there. But as of today with new Salifert test kits.

I use Red Sea Coral Pro Black bucket salt.

Salinity : 1.025
Nitrate : 25
Nitrite : 0
Phosphate : 0
KH/ALK : 10.0
Calcium : 415
Magnesium : 1350

I do have a water change that's due today.

 

[Ignitros]

Your experience and @teller's paper amount to a nice explanation. I'll consider this in the future.

@Ignitros what does your molybdenum level look like?

I honestly don't know. I really need to just bite the bullet and send a test to Triton ICP. I've just not had issues till I made the changes mentioned. Ever since for the last few months just can't seem to keep chaeto alive. I purchased a better Fuge light just in case it's a light thing. Ordered a SB Reef SPrite Fuge light 84watt.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I haven't submitted a Triton ICP in 6 months so I don't have anything there. But as of today with new Salifert test kits.

I use Red Sea Coral Pro Black bucket salt.

Salinity : 1.025
Nitrate : 25
Nitrite : 0
Phosphate : 0
KH/ALK : 10.0
Calcium : 415
Magnesium : 1350

I do have a water change that's due today.

Phosphate : 0 <<
If that is the salifert you use I suggest you compare the test solution against another vial of plain aquarium water. When this is done the test solution will usually appear blue rather than perfectly clear & correspond to around 0.03ppm PO4.
If test solution still appears perfectly clear when this is done this could mean PO4 is a limiting nutirent for algae growth.

 

[Tft12]

I should have asked this from the beginning, how's your system doing besides the chaeto? Corals, fish, appearance, pests?