chemical warfare

[crabbejoe]

I'm not sure exactly what happened, but I think it was a rhodactis that was brushing against a monti cap. The monti was turning a little white where they were touching, but I didn't think too much of it. The next day 2 milli frags I had were white. They went from fine one day to bone white the next. I put in fresh carbon, and turned up the skimmer a bit. The next day, the monti cap was very pale too. Also 2 toadstool and a devils hand were shrunk and very sad looking. I did about a 25% waterchange, but as days went on the leathers continued to die. Last night, which is about a week since it started, I pulled out 3 mushy blobs that used to be corals, and did a 50% water change. Monti caps are dead, sun coral is dead. I didn't have many hard corals to begin with, but the only one that survived was a christmas favia, and even that isn't looking happy, but at least it still has color!
This makes me want to get rid of all my soft corals.
The zoas seem okay, but everything else is unhappy.
Just venting my frustration. Anyone else have problems like this?

 

[MSU Fan]

I haven't had any issues that sound like yours, but I can sympathize. Good luck in identifying the issues and correcting them.

I am surprised that you continued to have die off and issues after you put in the carbon...I suspect there was more than one issue going on.

 

[MrSquid]

I had some touching and a little bit of localized die-back from it, but nothing to this scale. Makes me VERY glad that I trimmed back and spaced out my corals when I was home!

 

[Bri Guy]

Thats the problem with trying to keep all sorts of corals together in one confined space, not all are really compatible, but we try and make them friends.

Sorry for your loss, keep up with the carbon and WC

btw, once things mellow out, I have more monti and milli for you.

 

[jlinzmaier]

I've had corals touch and not only kill tissue at the localized touching, but entirely wipe out one or the other. These were SPS corals surprisingly. I've done a lot of research on allelopathy and if the three globs of corals that you removed were softies to begin with then they were likely leaching alells as this is one of their defense mechanisms when they become stressed or injured. Their decomposition and release of toxins will be quite detrimental to anything in the tank.

Wish you the best, but it sounds like the damage is already done. If there are any other softies looking stressed I'd remove them so they don't release more toxins and harm anything else.


We've all got plenty more frags to stock you back up when the tank is ready. I have a large finger leather I'm looking to get rid of but you may not want anymore softies after this.

Jeremy

 

[crabbejoe]

Thanks, I don't think I'll be wanting any new leathers anytime in the near future. :smile:
Thanks Brian, you the man. Oh, the war coral is doing fine luckily.

So for those with sps tanks, you don't allow any of them to touch?

 

[johnanddawn]

i doubt your problem was chemical but could be wrong of course
- i would look at temp (my first thought), heater or other equip failure like a bad pump or cracked lamp/shield if you have MH, basic water params including amm because of all the die off. also was there a loss that preceded the problem that could of spiked amm?

this sort of catastrophic loss that happens as quickly as you seem to be describing does not sound like a chemical war. chemical issues are usually slow and stunting - not devestating and quick, unless your talking a seaapple or soapfish dieing. obviously the shroom touching (or any coral touching) is not good

i have kept mixed garden reefs with carbon for a long time

i did eliminate leathers from my current set up partly because of the risk of alleptropy (sp?) but mostly because i chose not to allow the space they require - leathers get way too big and take up a lot of valuable space. i do have several shrooms including rhodactus sp. living perfectly in harmony with zoas, many LPS, and SPS.

 

[killingseed2000]

the shroom V the cap, the cap will lose! sad to say but the shroom will sting the heck out of the cap and win.

 

[jlinzmaier]

So for those with sps tanks, you don't allow any of them to touch?

Some corals can touch without trouble, but most often not. Usually when they do touch it's just a slight recession by one or both at the site, but I did have one instance in which one coral killed another entire colony.

Johnanddawn makes a good point at evaluating all other options as well! The allelopathy ususally is slow and stunting, however, if one coral becomes very damaged as it dies it can go into meltdown stage and release a large amount of toxins.

Jeremy

 

[Bri Guy]

Ever conclude what might have caused this?

What has the the temp been running lately?

 

[crabbejoe]

I don't really know.
No ammonia or nitrates, cal and alk are fine. I haven't tested nitrites or phosphates. But since I've done water changes of about 75% total now, I think I've kind of erased the evidence.
I'll keep watching everything though. The xmas favia is a shade lighter today.

 

[crabbejoe]

I double checked the temp, and that was correct. Holding steady at 82. Is that too warm, you think?

 

[DaveA]

I double checked the temp, and that was correct. Holding steady at 82. Is that too warm, you think?

I've been told over 80 is no good. I try to keep my tank at 76

 

[jlinzmaier]

Keeping a temp upwards of 82-83 or even 84 is just fine as long as you didn't previously keep your tank at 76 and it hit 82 in a half an hour. Many people keep their tanks in the low 80's and have no difficulty. My tank usually gets up to 81-82 during the day and I have no trouble. At night it dips back down to around 78.5-79. My controller is set to keep it between 78.5-82.

As long as it wasn't a sudden spike, your temp of 82 didn't cause the crash.

Jeremy

 

[crabbejoe]

I've never checked how low the temp gets at night with the lights off and everything. It gets a lot of natural sunlight during the day, so the temp probably does swing a bit. Maybe it got just a little too warm during the day, and a little too cool at night. I'll have to check that out.

 

[Bri Guy]

Thats the problem with 82 in the summer, its not too hot itself, but as soon as the mid day sun beats, you may get a spike that your not seeing.

I try to keep mine around 80 giving me a bit of free play room.

 

[johnanddawn]

in my experience at 82 corals may or may not show signs of stress depending on temp consistency like jeremy suggested. however at about 84 you are reaching the very upper limit. as bri said if you hit this number during the heat of the day you are going to have problems.
however i believe that O2 level has some play on temp. the higher the temp the less O2 water can hold, because of this good circulation and a good skimmer may give you a little more play with temp
personally i don't like to get above 80

 

[crabbejoe]

I have my sump set up right in front of a window, thinking the natural sunlight would really make the chaeto grow and I wouldn't need a light over the sump. And it's working, but it's probably also causing the temperature problems (if that's my problem). Especially now in the summer, where it might not have been a problem in the winter. I think I'm going to move the sump to better spot.

 

[Fishcrazy06]

Throw a fan by the sump blowing across the top of the water. You will have to add more due to evaporation but it will cool it down as well.

Eric

 

[crabbejoe]

I think I'm still going to take all my softies out and start fresh with the 75 being only hard corals. I'll do a separate softy nano or something. I read somewhere that that's the best way to do it. If you want to do hard corals, after the tank is cycled, and gone through the algea blooms, you should then put in only hard corals. What most do is put in some softies first because they're tougher or easier, but by doing that, it can make the tank inhospitable for the hard corals.