Chemiclean...am I the only one?

[zdrc]

Ok, so I, like Emerson went through this mental crisis as well. Parameters in check, running conservative GFO, nitrates always a bit high in the 20ppm range and no Cyano. Suddenly starts showing up at the two year mark and growing. Siphoned the sand in sections multiple times with 20% water changes 2x over three weeks. Was adding Aquaforest BioS and Pro BioS with -NP Pro (Carbon dose) to try to get good bacteria strains to outcompete cyano. Changed the 2x 55W bulbs in my 110W UV. Reduced lighting to almost nothing. I have been reefing for 30 years. Nothing was working. So I called myself a bad Reefer and dosed CC two days ago. Now I am Doing 2x 15% water changes over the next 3 days, getting skimmer and carbon back online.

MY QUESTION - after the CC treatment and water changes, and knowing Randy’s reference to erythromycin antibiotic and affects on good bacteria, has anyone “re-seeded” their bacteria colony in the tank with Aquaforest Bio/ProBios, Dr Tim’s, Microbacter7 or the like to give the good strains the advantage early on after the treatment?

The reason I ask is my concern is, even a 30% water change leaves 70% water, with CHemiclean in it. The carbon and skimming may or may not clear the rest from the system. If I add good bacteria from the products listed within a few days from now, could the CC kill that bacteria and cause new problems? Or will the newly introduced bacteria strains settle in the rock and sand and help me avoid any Dino’s, GHA, or other unwanted bacteria or algae? Thoughts?

The erythromycin is unlikely to be chemically stable in a reef environment, I imagine it would de-nature over time whether you physically remove it with a water change or not. Removing it with a water change would get rid of it faster. I bet if you added beneficial bacteria about a week after dosing CC you'll be fine. A real chemist would know better than me though.

FYI, 2x 15% water changes is not the same as one 30% water change. For example, say we started with 100 mg of CC, after one 15% water change there would be 100*(1-0.15) = 85 mg of CC. With another 15% water change this is 85*(1-0.15) = 72.25 mg CC. With one 30% water change the CC is reduced to 100*(1-0.3) = 70 mg CC. Overall, single, large water changes will remove more from the tank than multiple small water changes.

If chemiclean does contain antibiotics, I'm shocked it's still legal. Antibiotics should only be prescribed by doctors and only used when absolutely necessary. Antibiotic resistant bacteria are a serious risk. You don't just run the risk of breeding a strain of antibiotic resistance cyano, but you could also generate other antibiotic resistant bacteria in the reef. For example, you might end up breeding an extra virulent form of BJD or even staph. Imagine landing in the hospital with an antibiotic resistant staph or pneumonia strain that you bred up yourself in your reef tank.

 

[Spare time]

The erythromycin is unlikely to be chemically stable in a reef environment, I imagine it would de-nature over time whether you physically remove it with a water change or not. Removing it with a water change would get rid of it faster. I bet if you added beneficial bacteria about a week after dosing CC you'll be fine. A real chemist would know better than me though.

FYI, 2x 15% water changes is not the same as one 30% water change. For example, say we started with 100 mg of CC, after one 15% water change there would be 100*(1-0.15) = 85 mg of CC. With another 15% water change this is 85*(1-0.15) = 72.25 mg CC. With one 30% water change the CC is reduced to 100*(1-0.3) = 70 mg CC. Overall, single, large water changes will remove more from the tank than multiple small water changes.

If chemiclean does contain antibiotics, I'm shocked it's still legal. Antibiotics should only be prescribed by doctors and only used when absolutely necessary. Antibiotic resistant bacteria are a serious risk. You don't just run the risk of breeding a strain of antibiotic resistance cyano, but you could also generate other antibiotic resistant bacteria in the reef. For example, you might end up breeding an extra virulent form of BJD or even staph. Imagine landing in the hospital with an antibiotic resistant staph or pneumonia strain that you bred up yourself in your reef tank.

You can get antibiotics without a medical prescription. There are many in this hobby people. use.

 

[Spare time]

Ok, so I, like Emerson went through this mental crisis as well. Parameters in check, running conservative GFO, nitrates always a bit high in the 20ppm range and no Cyano. Suddenly starts showing up at the two year mark and growing. Siphoned the sand in sections multiple times with 20% water changes 2x over three weeks. Was adding Aquaforest BioS and Pro BioS with -NP Pro (Carbon dose) to try to get good bacteria strains to outcompete cyano. Changed the 2x 55W bulbs in my 110W UV. Reduced lighting to almost nothing. I have been reefing for 30 years. Nothing was working. So I called myself a bad Reefer and dosed CC two days ago. Now I am Doing 2x 15% water changes over the next 3 days, getting skimmer and carbon back online.

MY QUESTION - after the CC treatment and water changes, and knowing Randy’s reference to erythromycin antibiotic and affects on good bacteria, has anyone “re-seeded” their bacteria colony in the tank with Aquaforest Bio/ProBios, Dr Tim’s, Microbacter7 or the like to give the good strains the advantage early on after the treatment?

The reason I ask is my concern is, even a 30% water change leaves 70% water, with CHemiclean in it. The carbon and skimming may or may not clear the rest from the system. If I add good bacteria from the products listed within a few days from now, could the CC kill that bacteria and cause new problems? Or will the newly introduced bacteria strains settle in the rock and sand and help me avoid any Dino’s, GHA, or other unwanted bacteria or algae? Thoughts?

I don't think it matters. I wouldn't add cycling bacterial mixes (microbacter 7, one and only, etc.), but maybe others. I added eco balance and pns probio after running a UV for a period

 

[zdrc]

You can get antibiotics without a medical prescription. There are many in this hobby people. use.

Yes, but it doesn't mean it should be that way. I don't have a huge problem with using antibiotics to treat bacterial infection in fish, but using it to "clean" a tank seems excessive.

 

[nereefpat]

Chemiclean is erythromycin. It works really well on cyanobacteria.
The problem is the misleading marketing that Chemiclean uses.

As for what is needed to remove it, the skimmer and carbon would remove it fairly quickly. I haven't had trouble with nitrifying bacteria completely dying out, as long as the directions are followed. I have seen people nuke their tanks if they aren't careful, and I did it too with Maracyn II (I think) about 17 years ago.