Chemiclean Havoc

[reeferfoxx]

So, does this discount aeration as the issue?

The plot thickens...

I'm not sure but don't be surprised if you see this brown stuff popping up in the next week or two.

 

[sbash]

I'm not sure but don't be surprised if you see this brown stuff popping up in the next week or two.

Care to explain?

(That's a different tank by the way, and I hope you're not trying to throw other issues I have had in my face)

 

[reeferfoxx]

(That's a different tank by the way, and I hope you're not trying to throw other issues I have had in my face)

No i'm not. Allowing po4 to bottom out can allow other plague type algae. Mix that with an anti bacterial chemical and you can create issues. It's nothing condescending but more so controversial. Methodologies of having po4 vs keeping po4 at 0. Some tanks can withstand it and others cannot. Every tank is different but I have a feeling this tank might have hit that tipping point. To let you know, i've bottomed my po4 out, experienced RTN, and immediately followed up with dinoflagellates.

 

[sbash]

No i'm not. Allowing po4 to bottom out can allow other plague type algae. Mix that with an anti bacterial chemical and you can create issues. It's nothing condescending but more so controversial. Methodologies of having po4 vs keeping po4 at 0. Some tanks can withstand it and others cannot. Every tank is different but I have a feeling this tank might have hit that tipping point. To let you know, i've bottomed my po4 out, experienced RTN, and immediately followed up with dinoflagellates.

Okay good good Controversial is part of this anecdotal hobby we all enjoy.

Alright, I think I get what you are saying. It's also very likely the phosphates were being consumed by the cyano, as it (and some minor hair algae) showed up many weeks after I should have changed my GFO. So with the cyano out of the way, the nutrients should improve on their own. Like I said, the best growth and colour for me yet, which is why I am resistant to the low nutrients being the problem.

Okay, so weird fluke of a chemical reaction situation. Not as specific as I would like and still doesn't technically make sense to me, but it is what it is...

 

[chinw76]

I guarantee it is not a nutrient issue, per se. UNLESS, the chemiclean messes with the nutrients/chemistry there. Before the chemiclean, I had AMAZING growth and colour; I.E. this has been my most successful reef. That said it is a grow out tank, so there is some ugly algae and such. The cyano started to take over my egg crate frag racks, so I had do get aggressive... I've also dealt with nutrient issues before, and this TN is different than I have seen before, the corals died back, this is some crazy full on tissue flaking off...

Lack of aeration is still the running theory, but like I mentioned above two dursos creates a lot of aeration. There was also some foam build up in the sump. I would like to compare some TN photos from a system with low aeration.

The pH was 8. Not sure what it was before the Chemiclean, but it wouldn't have dropped enough (i.e. down to 8) to cause problems, would it? I've read that daily swings could be from 8.2 to below 8 without issue?



Yeah, algae and such on the tips is par for the course with these issues.



So, does this discount aeration as the issue?

The plot thickens...

I think he was fine. Some people have lost a coral or two with chemi clean. It could also be possible he got a bad batch. I ran 1.5 times the recommended dose and I was fine and ran 24 hours longer than recommend amount to add. I have about 50 gallons of water volume and dosed for 90 gallons of water, ran it for 72 hours instead of 48. I aso talked to an expert at BRS before I proceeded. I have no explanation for his problem with it. It could be from such a large die off that put toxin in the tank. Doing a water change and running carbon would help with that. I would then order a new batch of chemi clean to be on the safe side. In the meantime, I would try to remove as much as possible my manual methods before treating again.

 

[sbash]

I think he was fine. Some people have lost a coral or two with chemi clean. It could also be possible he got a bad batch. I ran 1.5 times the recommended dose and I was fine and ran 24 hours longer than recommend amount to add. I have about 50 gallons of water volume and dosed for 90 gallons of water, ran it for 72 hours instead of 48. I aso talked to an expert at BRS before I proceeded. I have no explanation for his problem with it. It could be from such a large die off that put toxin in the tank. Doing a water change and running carbon would help with that. I would then order a new batch of chemi clean to be on the safe side. In the meantime, I would try to remove as much as possible my manual methods before treating again.

Thanks, after looking closely now at the tank. The chemiclean didn't really do a whole lot, if anything. It actually looks worse today.

So yeah, bad/toxic batch?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Thanks, after looking closely now at the tank. The chemiclean didn't really do a whole lot, if anything. It actually looks worse today.

So yeah, bad/toxic batch?

Have you tried red slime remover?

 

[sbash]

Have you tried red slime remover?

No, I'm going to lay off the chemical additions until things settle again. Mechanical removal will have to do for a while.

It actually does look better this morning (the cyano), although the cyano seems to be at it worst after 6 hours of lighting, so we'll see in a few hours. If it gets really bad again I might consider another product.

 

[sbash]

Alright, just a quick follow up. Thanks for all the input, I do appreciate it!

After what we talked about here and my own research, it was definitely low oxygen. There was a very important point on the box that says to INCREASE the amount of aeration, granted they should have added "Or everything will die" to the warning, but that is my problem. The product also didn't work (which is the real kicker, all this death and I still have to manually remove the junk)... So yeah, a few lessons learned here...

Anyway, onto the interesting stuff. There is not many LPS in the system, but aside from the branching cyphastrea, it all survived (euphilia, chalice and rainbow acans, all perfectly fine). The cyphastrea is pretty wrecked, but, I might be able to save a branch or two from each type...

Three types of birdsnests, all toast (and I had a lot of it, after it is confirmed dead, I'll pull everything from the tank and photograph the damage). The large polyp birdsnests were the first to show signs of irritation.
10 types of montis, the green caps took quite a bit of damage, an encrusting green/brown had some serious tissue loss and the setosa died (most of it, I had three pieces, two died and the other is probably salvagable). The large red cap showed some tissue loss, but I'm sure it will recover just fine, most of the others (a couple encrusting and a few branching) didn't even really seem to care.
Zoas, probably 30-40 morphs, all seem fine, some are not open, but no signs of 'melting'. This is the only soft coral in this system.
Hydophoras (four types) are still closed and don't seem to have tissue loss.
Acros are a mixed bag, most of the small pieces (1-3") are toast, with a couple exceptions. The small colonies suffered, but might pull through.

I'm just sharing this as an interesting note about how sensitive some corals are more sensitive to oxygen than others.