China wrasse swimbladder issue?

[mushy coral]

I got this wrasse yesterday after half a year finding it at many fish stores. Brought it home and acclimated for 1.5hour, then put it in an acclimation box. It went right under the sand. Today i got home and notice the round, bluffing belly and shes been swimming in the round motion and floating on the surface. Im planning to move her in the qt I just setup but first time got this issue so I dont know how to treat this. Really need help from expert cause it extremely rare to get one here at my place.

 

[BryanM]

#fishmedics

The folks that help usually prefer videos posted to youtube and then linked here. For some reason that works better than most other methods.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I got this wrasse yesterday after half a year finding it at many fish stores. Brought it home and acclimated for 1.5hour, then put it in an acclimation box. It went right under the sand. Today i got home and notice the round, bluffing belly and shes been swimming in the round motion and floating on the surface. Im planning to move her in the qt I just setup but first time got this issue so I dont know how to treat this. Really need help from expert cause it extremely rare to get one here at my place.

It definitely looks stressed in that small box. Since it is already in this tank, any disease it might have arrived with is now there, so moving it to a QT would only help if there was a specific treatable disease - and I don't see that.

What other fish are in that tank? I wonder if you should just release it in order to lower its stress levels....

 

[mushy coral]

It definitely looks stressed in that small box. Since it is already in this tank, any disease it might have arrived with is now there, so moving it to a QT would only help if there was a specific treatable disease - and I don't see that.

What other fish are in that tank? I wonder if you should just release it in order to lower its stress levels....

it was in a much bigger box with net for water to flow through but it seems the wrasse was weak and cannot tolerant so i moved it in this small temp box. I want to move it in qt as qt are bigger and also i can try to train it to eat frozen food. Fishes in tank are a male pintail fairy, small melanurus and leopard wrasse. You said that you dont see any treatable disease means the wrasse doesnot have any disease or it has but uncureable?

 

[mushy coral]

#fishmedics

The folks that help usually prefer videos posted to youtube and then linked here. For some reason that works better than most other methods.

i will upload it on ytb. Just want to know if you need more videos of it when i first acclimate it and some vids in whitelight?

 

[MnFish1]

I don't think this is a swim bladder issue per se. Were the parameters in your tank matching to the parameters in the bag (especially the salinity) - otherwise I'm not a fan of acclimation boxes - as many fish behave the way this one does.

 

[mushy coral]

I don't think this is a swim bladder issue per se. Were the parameters in your tank matching to the parameters in the bag (especially the salinity) - otherwise I'm not a fan of acclimation boxes - as many fish behave the way this one does.

Yes the salinity matched at 1.023 sg

 

[Jay Hemdal]

it was in a much bigger box with net for water to flow through but it seems the wrasse was weak and cannot tolerant so i moved it in this small temp box. I want to move it in qt as qt are bigger and also i can try to train it to eat frozen food. Fishes in tank are a male pintail fairy, small melanurus and leopard wrasse. You said that you dont see any treatable disease means the wrasse doesnot have any disease or it has but uncureable?

I mean - I don't see any symptoms that point to a specific disease. I don't suggest treating fish unless you have a specific set of symptoms to be treated. In this case, it may well be the shipping issues that I mentioned, and there is no treatment for that other than to reduce stress on the fish as much as possible....

 

[vetteguy53081]

Fish looks normal in appearance other than stress that may be caused with acclimation box

 

[mushy coral]

Thanks to all of your guys advice. I will let she out when shes get up tomorrow. Hope shes gonna eat well and not get bullied by other fishes.

 

[mushy coral]

I mean - I don't see any symptoms that point to a specific disease. I don't suggest treating fish unless you have a specific set of symptoms to be treated. In this case, it may well be the shipping issues that I mentioned, and there is no treatment for that other than to reduce stress on the fish as much as possible....

I just read a post of other case on the forum and in that post stated that swim bladder disease and constipation can be identical. Could it be what my wrasse got? Shes have inflated belly while shes not eating anything and floating on the surface. I cannot see her poop yet but if I suspect it should I start treating for constipation?
Heres the vid on youtube:

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I just read a post of other case on the forum and in that post stated that swim bladder disease and constipation can be identical. Could it be what my wrasse got? Shes have inflated belly while shes not eating anything and floating on the surface. I cannot see her poop yet but if I suspect it should I start treating for constipation?
Heres the vid on youtube:

"Swim bladder" disease is actually pretty rare. Most cases that I see are from fish being "needled" to decompress them when caught in deep water. This species is usually collected in shallower water, so I don't think that is it. What can happen is that an infection inside the fish produces gas (in the stomach for example) and that causes the fish to become more buoyant. There is no easy treatment for that - antibiotics in the water don't reach the infection, the fish isn't eating, so you can't put antibiotics in the food. That just leaves injectable drugs.

Here is a list of causes for abdominal swelling in fishes:

Causes of Abdominal Swelling in Fishes

This symptom presents as unusual swelling in the belly of a fish. As with many other disease symptoms, this itself is not an indication of any specific problem, but rather of a group of issues with different causes and outcomes. If some refinement of the general symptom is made, the cause can often be narrowed down.

1) Overfeeding. Some fish will gorge on food, causing a temporary distended abdomen. If the food being fed is flake or freeze dried food, the added air in the diet can cause to struggle to stay down in the water column. This can be seen where the fish bobs, swimming head-down trying to maintain their position in the water column. The way to rule this issue out is to not feed the fish for 24 to 36 hours. If the swelling reduces over that time, this was probably the cause. This is most commonly seen with swelling in the anterior portion of the abdomen, as that is where the fish’s stomach is. The swelling is bilaterally symmetrical and of sudden onset. If the fish is fasted for 24 hours and the symptoms resolves, that diagnoses it as overfeeding as opposed to the next issue.

2) Intestinal blockage. Related to above, in this case, there is a blockage somewhere in the fish’s digestive tract. This can be caused by the fish ingesting some food item that is too large, or by the fish swallowing some indigestible item such as sand or gravel. The swelling can range from mid-abdomen to the posterior, depending on where the blockage occurred. Often the swelling is bilaterally symmetrical, but can sometimes be more visible on one side than the other. Often called “constipation”, there are many “home remedies”. The two most common are; Epsom salts in the water and feeding the fish peas. Both of these are old freshwater remedies developed for fancy goldfish and do not apply to all fish, especially marine species.

3) Swelling from unreleased eggs. Only mature female fish can develop this condition. The swelling is in the posterior of the abdomen and is usually symmetrical side to side. Onset is more gradual, over a few days to weeks. In some instances, the fish’s vent is swollen (like a prolapse).

4) Edema. Fluid buildup in soft tissues, Often caused by a salinity drop (a salinity rise can actually cause a fish to become thinner as it desiccates). More serious causes include liver or kidney failure. The swelling is generalized in all soft tissues, and can develop over days to weeks. The fish’s abdomen will be swollen, but so will other tissues; eyes may protrude, the scales may rise (called dropsy in freshwater fish) and the vent may show a prolapse. If the issue stems from an osmotic imbalance, correcting that issue may provide some relief. However, if the root cause is organ failure, there is no long-term treatment.

5) Ascites. fluid buildup in the belly. This condition forms as a result of liver or kidney disease. In this case, there is free fluid that builds up in the peritoneal region of the abdomen. The swelling is symmetrical and the scales do not become raised. There is no treatment for this condition.

6) Tumors and abscesses. These tend to be asymmetrical, more evident on one side of the body than the other. They also tend to develop slowly over time, as the tumor or bacterial abscess grows. Tumors have no real treatment, but some people have had success in lancing abscesses (shallow ones only).

7) Rarely, internal parasites (often nematode worms) will cause abdominal swelling in certain species. Most internal parasites cause the opposite though - the fish becomes thinner, despite feeding well.

 

[mushy coral]

"Swim bladder" disease is actually pretty rare. Most cases that I see are from fish being "needled" to decompress them when caught in deep water. This species is usually collected in shallower water, so I don't think that is it. What can happen is that an infection inside the fish produces gas (in the stomach for example) and that causes the fish to become more buoyant. There is no easy treatment for that - antibiotics in the water don't reach the infection, the fish isn't eating, so you can't put antibiotics in the food. That just leaves injectable drugs.

Here is a list of causes for abdominal swelling in fishes:

Causes of Abdominal Swelling in Fishes

This symptom presents as unusual swelling in the belly of a fish. As with many other disease symptoms, this itself is not an indication of any specific problem, but rather of a group of issues with different causes and outcomes. If some refinement of the general symptom is made, the cause can often be narrowed down.

1) Overfeeding. Some fish will gorge on food, causing a temporary distended abdomen. If the food being fed is flake or freeze dried food, the added air in the diet can cause to struggle to stay down in the water column. This can be seen where the fish bobs, swimming head-down trying to maintain their position in the water column. The way to rule this issue out is to not feed the fish for 24 to 36 hours. If the swelling reduces over that time, this was probably the cause. This is most commonly seen with swelling in the anterior portion of the abdomen, as that is where the fish’s stomach is. The swelling is bilaterally symmetrical and of sudden onset. If the fish is fasted for 24 hours and the symptoms resolves, that diagnoses it as overfeeding as opposed to the next issue.

2) Intestinal blockage. Related to above, in this case, there is a blockage somewhere in the fish’s digestive tract. This can be caused by the fish ingesting some food item that is too large, or by the fish swallowing some indigestible item such as sand or gravel. The swelling can range from mid-abdomen to the posterior, depending on where the blockage occurred. Often the swelling is bilaterally symmetrical, but can sometimes be more visible on one side than the other. Often called “constipation”, there are many “home remedies”. The two most common are; Epsom salts in the water and feeding the fish peas. Both of these are old freshwater remedies developed for fancy goldfish and do not apply to all fish, especially marine species.

3) Swelling from unreleased eggs. Only mature female fish can develop this condition. The swelling is in the posterior of the abdomen and is usually symmetrical side to side. Onset is more gradual, over a few days to weeks. In some instances, the fish’s vent is swollen (like a prolapse).

4) Edema. Fluid buildup in soft tissues, Often caused by a salinity drop (a salinity rise can actually cause a fish to become thinner as it desiccates). More serious causes include liver or kidney failure. The swelling is generalized in all soft tissues, and can develop over days to weeks. The fish’s abdomen will be swollen, but so will other tissues; eyes may protrude, the scales may rise (called dropsy in freshwater fish) and the vent may show a prolapse. If the issue stems from an osmotic imbalance, correcting that issue may provide some relief. However, if the root cause is organ failure, there is no long-term treatment.

5) Ascites. fluid buildup in the belly. This condition forms as a result of liver or kidney disease. In this case, there is free fluid that builds up in the peritoneal region of the abdomen. The swelling is symmetrical and the scales do not become raised. There is no treatment for this condition.

6) Tumors and abscesses. These tend to be asymmetrical, more evident on one side of the body than the other. They also tend to develop slowly over time, as the tumor or bacterial abscess grows. Tumors have no real treatment, but some people have had success in lancing abscesses (shallow ones only).

7) Rarely, internal parasites (often nematode worms) will cause abdominal swelling in certain species. Most internal parasites cause the opposite though - the fish becomes thinner, despite feeding well.

I can rule them out down to 2,4 and 5. She havent eat since i got her and yes i acclimated her carefully but i guess when i pour in the copepod directly at her place the copepod water that was lower salinity though i mixed it with the tank water.

 

[mushy coral]

"Swim bladder" disease is actually pretty rare. Most cases that I see are from fish being "needled" to decompress them when caught in deep water. This species is usually collected in shallower water, so I don't think that is it. What can happen is that an infection inside the fish produces gas (in the stomach for example) and that causes the fish to become more buoyant. There is no easy treatment for that - antibiotics in the water don't reach the infection, the fish isn't eating, so you can't put antibiotics in the food. That just leaves injectable drugs.

Here is a list of causes for abdominal swelling in fishes:

Causes of Abdominal Swelling in Fishes

This symptom presents as unusual swelling in the belly of a fish. As with many other disease symptoms, this itself is not an indication of any specific problem, but rather of a group of issues with different causes and outcomes. If some refinement of the general symptom is made, the cause can often be narrowed down.

1) Overfeeding. Some fish will gorge on food, causing a temporary distended abdomen. If the food being fed is flake or freeze dried food, the added air in the diet can cause to struggle to stay down in the water column. This can be seen where the fish bobs, swimming head-down trying to maintain their position in the water column. The way to rule this issue out is to not feed the fish for 24 to 36 hours. If the swelling reduces over that time, this was probably the cause. This is most commonly seen with swelling in the anterior portion of the abdomen, as that is where the fish’s stomach is. The swelling is bilaterally symmetrical and of sudden onset. If the fish is fasted for 24 hours and the symptoms resolves, that diagnoses it as overfeeding as opposed to the next issue.

2) Intestinal blockage. Related to above, in this case, there is a blockage somewhere in the fish’s digestive tract. This can be caused by the fish ingesting some food item that is too large, or by the fish swallowing some indigestible item such as sand or gravel. The swelling can range from mid-abdomen to the posterior, depending on where the blockage occurred. Often the swelling is bilaterally symmetrical, but can sometimes be more visible on one side than the other. Often called “constipation”, there are many “home remedies”. The two most common are; Epsom salts in the water and feeding the fish peas. Both of these are old freshwater remedies developed for fancy goldfish and do not apply to all fish, especially marine species.

3) Swelling from unreleased eggs. Only mature female fish can develop this condition. The swelling is in the posterior of the abdomen and is usually symmetrical side to side. Onset is more gradual, over a few days to weeks. In some instances, the fish’s vent is swollen (like a prolapse).

4) Edema. Fluid buildup in soft tissues, Often caused by a salinity drop (a salinity rise can actually cause a fish to become thinner as it desiccates). More serious causes include liver or kidney failure. The swelling is generalized in all soft tissues, and can develop over days to weeks. The fish’s abdomen will be swollen, but so will other tissues; eyes may protrude, the scales may rise (called dropsy in freshwater fish) and the vent may show a prolapse. If the issue stems from an osmotic imbalance, correcting that issue may provide some relief. However, if the root cause is organ failure, there is no long-term treatment.

5) Ascites. fluid buildup in the belly. This condition forms as a result of liver or kidney disease. In this case, there is free fluid that builds up in the peritoneal region of the abdomen. The swelling is symmetrical and the scales do not become raised. There is no treatment for this condition.

6) Tumors and abscesses. These tend to be asymmetrical, more evident on one side of the body than the other. They also tend to develop slowly over time, as the tumor or bacterial abscess grows. Tumors have no real treatment, but some people have had success in lancing abscesses (shallow ones only).

7) Rarely, internal parasites (often nematode worms) will cause abdominal swelling in certain species. Most internal parasites cause the opposite though - the fish becomes thinner, despite feeding well.

These are some pics when i got her home. Can you help identify specificly what she possibly having right now? Her belly still plump and no eating so far

 

[Jay Hemdal]

These are some pics when i got her home. Can you help identify specificly what she possibly having right now? Her belly still plump and no eating so far

Sorry - that's the problem with abdominal swelling - it's a distinctive symptom, but the causes are difficult to track down, and also difficult to resolve.

The not eating indicates a systemic issue. I agree that 2,4 or 5 are the most likely causes here.

 

[mushy coral]

Sorry - that's the problem with abdominal swelling - it's a distinctive symptom, but the causes are difficult to track down, and also difficult to resolve.

The not eating indicates a systemic issue. I agree that 2,4 or 5 are the most likely causes here.

So is there anything I can do? Release her this morning and shes down to the sand. She did get chased by the big male pintail but hid in the sand again. Have to wait till tomorrow again to take photo or video of her again.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So is there anything I can do? Release her this morning and shes down to the sand. She did get chased by the big male pintail but hid in the sand again. Have to wait till tomorrow again to take photo or video of her again.

No - there is no effective treatment, but some fish recover on their own.

Fingers crossed that it improves overnight.

 

[mushy coral]

This is shes today her belly seem normal now maybe she pooped out what was stucked. Not eating yet but finger crossed!

 

[mushy coral]

Ok so i tried feed her live brineshrimp and she actually EAT. Not much because of the chasing from male pintale and melanurus but I will try feed her frozen food also. Really happy that shes fine now. Oh and if the chasing become more intense at point that I must intervene, whats best that i can do? Put the bully or the victim in the box or anything else to reduce aggression? Thanks!