Blue Star Leopard Wrasse Fatalities. Please Help!

[daveloro]

Hello There. my name is Dave.

I know this is long so ill TL:DR right away.

-multiple leopard wrasses tried
-first one lived fine for a while but died when we medicated tank
-second one died in 48 hours
-third one died in 24 hours
-i believe acclimation, travel, etc was done properly each time.

full story:

I was hoping to get some help from some veterans. im not a newbie but i wouldn't call myself a pro by any means. I have about 7 years experience. allow me to explain my issue and tell me what I'm doing wrong! My wife and I really want a female blue star leopard wrasse. tank is well established, plenty of pods. We have attempted 3 times with varying success. i will explain what happened each time.

attempt 1: medium size. best attempt. came from a LFS with not the best reputation (we had a fish from here once riddled with flukes). Drip Acclimated by floating bag in sump to temp match and provide darkness. equipment is quiet. used an IV line to drip about 2-3 drips per second for 45 mins. then moved to an isolation / acclimation box in the DT. Provided a small container of sand. Leopard wrasse immediately dove into the sand. came out the next day, ate frozen mysis very well. kept here for 4 days. no aggression from tank mates, we released her into the DT. she did so well, picking rocks, socialized with other fish, no issues. ran like clockwork. came out as lights ramped up and went to bed in the sand as lights ***** down every night Consistently. with this one we know the mistake we made. due to the fish with flukes (bought at the same time as her) dying, we decided to prophylactically treat the DT with praziquantel (not prazi pro) powder precisely dosed. we did the proper two treatments 5 days apart. huge water changes after each treatment. plus we do AWC of 5 gallons per day during that time afterwards. all fish, coral, inverts lived except one. the blue star. she started acting neurologic (spinning in circles, barrel rolls etc) then degraded to on her side and died a short time later. later learned they're extremely sensitive to medications. decided we would try again about a month later.

Attempt 2: larger size. acquired from a more reputable(seemingly?) LFS. this one drip acclimated the same way, given the same acclimation box and sand dish. this one went into the sand dish overnight, came out in the morning seemed fine, but wouldn't go back in the sand that night. starting acting funny at lights out, stressed, we were worried. we read they NEED sand. decided because no tank mates showed any aggression and she ate well we would release her to find the sand. which she did immediately. she buried for 48 hours. then after that we came down in the morning and she was out of the sand, on the surface of the sand on her side breathing heavily. she didn't make it. she died a couple hours later. tried again a few weeks later!

Attempt 3: larger size. This one had been there at the LFS (same seemingly reputable one) for 2.5 weeks. this one was even worse! we dripped her the same way (less time this time and faster drip rate as suggested by LFS), same acclimation box, same sand dish, this time provided a pvc fitting in case she didn't accept the sand dish. this one wouldn't go in the sand at all despite even being on top of the sand dish frequently. she was dead the next morning.

our parameters:
ammonia = 0 ppm
Nitrite = 0 ppm
Nitrate = 14.8 ppm
Phosphate = 0.04 ppm
Alkalinity = 7.9 DKH
PH = 8.15
ORP = 300 ish
Salt = 34 ppt

Tank details:
110g Display Tank
40g Sump
Total water volume 132g including displacement

we run carbon & rowaphos reactors

we run UV Sterilizer (coralife 18w @ 130 gph)

neptune controller with flow mons, fluid level mons etc.

chaeto & dragons breath in fuge.

large oversized skimmer. set wet.

no algae or cyano issues.

can answer any other questions.



We just want to know what we've done wrong. all 3 fish were happy and healthy looking in the LFS. we asked them to feed before bringing home and they all ate, seemed fine. Seems something weve done was what killed them but we have no idea what it could be.

all other inhabitants are fine.

as for the second LFS we got attempt 2 and 3 from we havent had good luck with them (hence the seemingly) we have had more deaths from there than success. meanwhile when we buy from other LFS the mortality rate (apart from our medication death of attempt 1) is near zero.

2 clowns, fairy wrasee, flasher wrasse, foxface, mandarin, flame angel, 4 chalk bass, midas and black combtooth blennies. all snails and hermits fine, cleaner shrimp fine...

dont know how to move forward. We want this fish! its my wifes favourite fish and she was so awesome (the first one) Please help!

Thanks for reading.

-Dave

 

[TylerHaworth]

I don't have any experience with Leopards, but drip acclimating has widely been abandoned as a practice as it takes way too long and stresses fish more than necessary.

 

[daveloro]

I don't have any experience with Leopards, but drip acclimating has widely been abandoned as a practice as it takes way too long and stresses fish more than necessary.

Ive not heard this before, what is the alternative? What process do you use Tyler?

 

[TylerHaworth]

Temp float and into the tank they go.

All of my fish come from Biota Group or Dr Reef, they both have the same acclimation procedure of getting it in as soon as possible. They do however ship at 1.023-1.025.

If you are getting fish from a source that has them in low salinity you should have a separate quarantine/observation tank set up with a similar salinity then increase it over time that way. Less time in a bag/bucket the better.

 

[daveloro]

Temp float and into the tank they go.

All of my fish come from Biota Group or Dr Reef, they both have the same acclimation procedure of getting it in as soon as possible. They do however ship at 1.023-1.025.

If you are getting fish from a source that has them in low salinity you should have a separate quarantine/observation tank set up with a similar salinity then increase it over time that way. Less time in a bag/bucket the better.

We do have a hospital tank... the salinity of the LFS is reef level. 35-36 ppt. our tank is 34. also worth noting, all three leopard wrasses were only in a bag travelling for 45 mins. Then immediately into the sump floating for temp and the drip.

what about the isolation box. is this a wise practice or do you know if these fish do better with a straight to loose in the tank so it can find the sand bed right away...

 

[TylerHaworth]

I don’t use acclimation boxes either.

 

[christinna77]

A few questions:

1. Did you actually measure the salinity of the bag water yourself or was that just based on what the LFS told you they keep it at?
2. Did you see wrasses 2 and 3 eating at the store?

I don't think prazi killed the first wrasse. They can sometimes be sensitive to it, yes, but unless you overdosed it (dosing for 85% of the tank's total volume is recommended unless you know the exact water volume) or didn't add extra aeration, I don't believe it was the cause of death. Or it might've been weak already...

These wrasses are poor shippers and get stressed very easily. I know you got them from your LFS, but they could've already been compromised from their supplier, especially since you mentioned you haven't had good experiences with that store before.

I also wonder if there could be an aggressor in the tank that's stressing the newly added wrasses when you're not watching...

Next time, I'd make sure to see the wrasse feeding at the store and that it's been there for at least 2 weeks already. I'd also use an observation tank so it can settle in on its own and make sure it's completely stress free and eating consistently before adding it to the main tank.

 

[daveloro]

A few questions:

1. Did you actually measure the salinity of the bag water yourself or was that just based on what the LFS told you they keep it at?
2. Did you see wrasses 2 and 3 eating at the store?

I don't think prazi killed the first wrasse. They can sometimes be sensitive to it, yes, but unless you overdosed it (dosing for 85% of the tank's total volume is recommended unless you know the exact water volume) or didn't add extra aeration, I don't believe it was the cause of death. Or it might've been weak already...

These wrasses are poor shippers and get stressed very easily. I know you got them from your LFS, but they could've already been compromised from their supplier, especially since you mentioned you haven't had good experiences with that store before.

I also wonder if there could be an aggressor in the tank that's stressing the newly added wrasses when you're not watching...

Next time, I'd make sure to see the wrasse feeding at the store and that it's been there for at least 2 weeks already. I'd also use an observation tank so it can settle in on its own and make sure it's completely stress free and eating consistently before adding it to the main tank.

Hey. Yes the second and third wrasses were eating. And we measured bag salinity using calibrated Hanna checker.

First fish was at lfs 1 for 3 weeks. Second was at lfs 2 for 2 weeks. Third fish was at lfs 2 for almost three weeks.

All fish except the third ate in the isolation box.

No aggression through the box whatsoever was observed from any tank mates.

Prazi dose was 100 percent strength. We know the exact water volume of system after calculating all displacement and water levels. 132.7 gallons. Aeration was skimmer running without cup on overflowing, uv hose pulled above water level causing tons of bubbles and return pump spouts pointed up at the water surface creating turbulence.

Thanks so much for the follow up questions looking forward to hearing your suggestions.

 

[christinna77]

Hey. Yes the second and third wrasses were eating. And we measured bag salinity using calibrated Hanna checker.

First fish was at lfs 1 for 3 weeks. Second was at lfs 2 for 2 weeks. Third fish was at lfs 2 for almost three weeks.

All fish except the third ate in the isolation box.

No aggression through the box whatsoever was observed from any tank mates.

Prazi dose was 100 percent strength. We know the exact water volume of system after calculating all displacement and water levels. 132.7 gallons. Aeration was skimmer running without cup on overflowing, uv hose pulled above water level causing tons of bubbles and return pump spouts pointed up at the water surface creating turbulence.

Thanks so much for the follow up questions looking forward to hearing your suggestions.

Thanks for answering the questions! I really don't know what went wrong. The only other thing I can think of is cyanide poisoning where the fish suddenly declines within a few weeks.

I do believe an observation tank would help it settle in, let you observe it more closely and rule out any issues in the display tank that you may not have accounted for.

 

[BryanM]

My quick google says they are fairly hard to keep fish, hard to keep alive, etc.

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello There. my name is Dave.

I know this is long so ill TL:DR right away.

-multiple leopard wrasses tried
-first one lived fine for a while but died when we medicated tank
-second one died in 48 hours
-third one died in 24 hours
-i believe acclimation, travel, etc was done properly each time.

full story:

I was hoping to get some help from some veterans. im not a newbie but i wouldn't call myself a pro by any means. I have about 7 years experience. allow me to explain my issue and tell me what I'm doing wrong! My wife and I really want a female blue star leopard wrasse. tank is well established, plenty of pods. We have attempted 3 times with varying success. i will explain what happened each time.

attempt 1: medium size. best attempt. came from a LFS with not the best reputation (we had a fish from here once riddled with flukes). Drip Acclimated by floating bag in sump to temp match and provide darkness. equipment is quiet. used an IV line to drip about 2-3 drips per second for 45 mins. then moved to an isolation / acclimation box in the DT. Provided a small container of sand. Leopard wrasse immediately dove into the sand. came out the next day, ate frozen mysis very well. kept here for 4 days. no aggression from tank mates, we released her into the DT. she did so well, picking rocks, socialized with other fish, no issues. ran like clockwork. came out as lights ramped up and went to bed in the sand as lights ***** down every night Consistently. with this one we know the mistake we made. due to the fish with flukes (bought at the same time as her) dying, we decided to prophylactically treat the DT with praziquantel (not prazi pro) powder precisely dosed. we did the proper two treatments 5 days apart. huge water changes after each treatment. plus we do AWC of 5 gallons per day during that time afterwards. all fish, coral, inverts lived except one. the blue star. she started acting neurologic (spinning in circles, barrel rolls etc) then degraded to on her side and died a short time later. later learned they're extremely sensitive to medications. decided we would try again about a month later.

Attempt 2: larger size. acquired from a more reputable(seemingly?) LFS. this one drip acclimated the same way, given the same acclimation box and sand dish. this one went into the sand dish overnight, came out in the morning seemed fine, but wouldn't go back in the sand that night. starting acting funny at lights out, stressed, we were worried. we read they NEED sand. decided because no tank mates showed any aggression and she ate well we would release her to find the sand. which she did immediately. she buried for 48 hours. then after that we came down in the morning and she was out of the sand, on the surface of the sand on her side breathing heavily. she didn't make it. she died a couple hours later. tried again a few weeks later!

Attempt 3: larger size. This one had been there at the LFS (same seemingly reputable one) for 2.5 weeks. this one was even worse! we dripped her the same way (less time this time and faster drip rate as suggested by LFS), same acclimation box, same sand dish, this time provided a pvc fitting in case she didn't accept the sand dish. this one wouldn't go in the sand at all despite even being on top of the sand dish frequently. she was dead the next morning.

our parameters:
ammonia = 0 ppm
Nitrite = 0 ppm
Nitrate = 14.8 ppm
Phosphate = 0.04 ppm
Alkalinity = 7.9 DKH
PH = 8.15
ORP = 300 ish
Salt = 34 ppt

Tank details:
110g Display Tank
40g Sump
Total water volume 132g including displacement

we run carbon & rowaphos reactors

we run UV Sterilizer (coralife 18w @ 130 gph)

neptune controller with flow mons, fluid level mons etc.

chaeto & dragons breath in fuge.

large oversized skimmer. set wet.

no algae or cyano issues.

can answer any other questions.



We just want to know what we've done wrong. all 3 fish were happy and healthy looking in the LFS. we asked them to feed before bringing home and they all ate, seemed fine. Seems something weve done was what killed them but we have no idea what it could be.

all other inhabitants are fine.

as for the second LFS we got attempt 2 and 3 from we havent had good luck with them (hence the seemingly) we have had more deaths from there than success. meanwhile when we buy from other LFS the mortality rate (apart from our medication death of attempt 1) is near zero.

2 clowns, fairy wrasee, flasher wrasse, foxface, mandarin, flame angel, 4 chalk bass, midas and black combtooth blennies. all snails and hermits fine, cleaner shrimp fine...

dont know how to move forward. We want this fish! its my wifes favourite fish and she was so awesome (the first one) Please help!

Thanks for reading.

-Dave

There has been several non eating or skinny ones being shipped and while classified difficult are manageable
Acclimation I don’t believe was the cause of behaviors but how did you acclimate and for how long?
Pics will offer clues using bright white lights