Clownfish death, could it be brook with no mucus loss?

saltwatercube · Jan 27, 2024

On Jan 16th, I bought two baby clownfish from my LFS. Both were super active, healthy, had a good appetite, and had no noticeable signs of disease or infection. I noticed that my one fish rubbed himself on the filter repeatedly but he had no white spots, signs of ick, or loss of color so I chalked it up to weird clownfish behavior. Jan 18th, I added three snails as a CUC to deal with my diatoms. All snails are still healthy.

Jan 21, I cleaned my tank and did a 25% WC and replaced with RODI water of the same temp and salinity. Everything looked great. I have parameter data for every single day of this month and every day it looked good and never fluctuated once cycled.

To make it easier, I'm going to number my fish.
Fish 1- is still in my tank
Fish 2- passed

Jan 22nd, Fish 2 suddenly sat at the bottom of the tank and was gasping for breath and losing color. He was struggling and pushing up sand (important to note there was NO white spots on his body ever. I brushed him off after he passed and there was no white spots at all). I put him in a cup and floated the cup so he could have an easier time but he passed very quickly. As this was happening I checked every parameter and even dosed prime JIC, but nothing was amiss. Fish 1 and all three snails (who are supposed to be very sensitive to parameter changes) were perfect. The only thing I could not test for was DO, but if it was a severe DO problem, wouldn't any other livestock show it? I have chaeto and a good water flow and trickle and a stable PH, so no real indicators of a loss of oxygen.

I am at a loss as to what caused Fish 2's passing. He got pale, but there was no loss of mucus coat (at least to my vision) like is typical in brook. There was no lesions on Fish 2's body and he was pale all over all of a sudden, not gradually. Every symptom was super sudden, he was fine the previous night and then it came on super sudden in the morning. He has nothing hanging off him like you see in a typical loss of mucus coat. He only rubbed on one specific spot, so I thought he was trying to host it. He ONLY rubbed this specific spot and loved to hang out there, but I thought he was just a clownfish being a clown.

Fish 1's has no symptoms and he has been in my tank for 2 weeks, so I feel like if he had something it would have presented by now. Since Fish 2 has passed, Fish 1's only change in behavior is being more reclusive. The pair were super close and always swam together, but now Fish 1 prefers to stay in his cave. It has been a week since Fish 2 passed. I only have one tank and it's a DT 24 gallon. Tank has been up since Dec 22nd.

My only other thinking is that he is super young, so it could have just been a fish that was not healthy since he is so small and young.

My question is, if it was anything, could my other fish have it? It has been a week, so I was planning on getting another clown, but now I am unsure. This fish was from a local and reputable fish store, but now I am wary of it. Can I get a fish from another store and introduce to my current fish?

Experiencing the typical frustration and sadness of losing a fish.

Attaching a picture of the Fish 2 rubbing that I caught and him when he was struggling (please note again that these are sand bits NOT white spots). Any advice or help is appreciated.

vetteguy53081 · Jan 27, 2024

W

saltwatercube said:
On Jan 16th, I bought two baby clownfish from my LFS. Both were super active, healthy, had a good appetite, and had no noticeable signs of disease or infection. I noticed that my one fish rubbed himself on the filter repeatedly but he had no white spots, signs of ick, or loss of color so I chalked it up to weird clownfish behavior. Jan 18th, I added three snails as a CUC to deal with my diatoms. All snails are still healthy.

Jan 21, I cleaned my tank and did a 25% WC and replaced with RODI water of the same temp and salinity. Everything looked great. I have parameter data for every single day of this month and every day it looked good and never fluctuated once cycled.

To make it easier, I'm going to number my fish.
Fish 1- is still in my tank
Fish 2- passed

Jan 22nd, Fish 2 suddenly sat at the bottom of the tank and was gasping for breath and losing color. He was struggling and pushing up sand (important to note there was NO white spots on his body ever. I brushed him off after he passed and there was no white spots at all). I put him in a cup and floated the cup so he could have an easier time but he passed very quickly. As this was happening I checked every parameter and even dosed prime JIC, but nothing was amiss. Fish 1 and all three snails (who are supposed to be very sensitive to parameter changes) were perfect. The only thing I could not test for was DO, but if it was a severe DO problem, wouldn't any other livestock show it? I have chaeto and a good water flow and trickle and a stable PH, so no real indicators of a loss of oxygen.

I am at a loss as to what caused Fish 2's passing. He got pale, but there was no loss of mucus coat (at least to my vision) like is typical in brook. There was no lesions on Fish 2's body and he was pale all over all of a sudden, not gradually. Every symptom was super sudden, he was fine the previous night and then it came on super sudden in the morning. He has nothing hanging off him like you see in a typical loss of mucus coat. He only rubbed on one specific spot, so I thought he was trying to host it. He ONLY rubbed this specific spot and loved to hang out there, but I thought he was just a clownfish being a clown.

Fish 1's has no symptoms and he has been in my tank for 2 weeks, so I feel like if he had something it would have presented by now. Since Fish 2 has passed, Fish 1's only change in behavior is being more reclusive. The pair were super close and always swam together, but now Fish 1 prefers to stay in his cave. It has been a week since Fish 2 passed. I only have one tank and it's a DT 24 gallon. Tank has been up since Dec 22nd.

My only other thinking is that he is super young, so it could have just been a fish that was not healthy since he is so small and young.

My question is, if it was anything, could my other fish have it? It has been a week, so I was planning on getting another clown, but now I am unsure. This fish was from a local and reputable fish store, but now I am wary of it. Can I get a fish from another store and introduce to my current fish?

Experiencing the typical frustration and sadness of losing a fish.

Attaching a picture of the Fish 2 rubbing that I caught and him when he was struggling (please note again that these are sand bits NOT white spots). Any advice or help is appreciated.

ill be hard to tell as a dead carcass will often lose color. Some clues IF brooklynella would be loss of color, elevated breathing, loss of appetite, wobbly swimming pattern, lethargic behavior , and even hiding

saltwatercube · Jan 27, 2024

vetteguy53081 said:
W

ill be hard to tell as a dead carcass will often lose color. Some clues IF brooklynella would be loss of color, elevated breathing, loss of appetite, wobbly swimming pattern, lethargic behavior , and even hiding

Sorry I totally should have specified, he was still alive in this picture. After I took it, I put him in a measuring cup for easier breathing and he passed pretty quickly after. He was totally normal at night and had a good appetite and swim pattern, out and about swimming tons. The loss of color and elevated breathing happened the next morning and were all sudden not gradual. I had him for a week with not a single symptom, which is why I'm so confused. Did not present like any diseases I had researched and was prepared to treat.

vetteguy53081 · Jan 27, 2024

saltwatercube said:
Sorry I totally should have specified, he was still alive in this picture. After I took it, I put him in a measuring cup for easier breathing and he passed pretty quickly after. He was totally normal at night and had a good appetite and swim pattern, out and about swimming tons. The loss of color and elevated breathing happened the next morning and were all sudden not gradual. I had him for a week with not a single symptom, which is why I'm so confused. Did not present like any diseases I had researched and was prepared to treat.

Aggression would be another possibility

Jay Hemdal · Jan 28, 2024

saltwatercube said:
Sorry I totally should have specified, he was still alive in this picture. After I took it, I put him in a measuring cup for easier breathing and he passed pretty quickly after. He was totally normal at night and had a good appetite and swim pattern, out and about swimming tons. The loss of color and elevated breathing happened the next morning and were all sudden not gradual. I had him for a week with not a single symptom, which is why I'm so confused. Did not present like any diseases I had researched and was prepared to treat.

I agree that with the invertebrates doing well in the tank, it is most likely a fish disease.

Sudden rapid breathing followed by death is a hallmark of velvet, Amyloodinium. to treat that, you would need a quarantine tank and coppersafe, plus a test kit/meter.

However, there are other issues that clownfish can get - internal protozoans called hexamita is one. They are also prone to coccidia infections, and that cannot be treated.

Did you see any stringy feces in the fish?

Jay

saltwatercube · Jan 31, 2024

Jay Hemdal said:
I agree that with the invertebrates doing well in the tank, it is most likely a fish disease.

Sudden rapid breathing followed by death is a hallmark of velvet, Amyloodinium. to treat that, you would need a quarantine tank and coppersafe, plus a test kit/meter.

However, there are other issues that clownfish can get - internal protozoans called hexamita is one. They are also prone to coccidia infections, and that cannot be treated.

Did you see any stringy feces in the fish?

Jay

I never saw any stringy feces. I don't think it was velvet because even in death he never had any velvet specs on him and I had him for a week before this happened. Additionally, my other fish would have shown a symptom because the two fish were constantly together and even slept side by side.

Very weird, hoping it was just an isolated incident.

saltwatercube · Jan 31, 2024

vetteguy53081 said:
Aggression would be another possibility

I thought that too, but neither fish ever displayed any aggressive behavior. They were constantly together and shared a hide and I never saw any evidence of fin nipping or aggression between the two.

saltwatercube · Jan 31, 2024

Update: I got a second clownfish over the weekend. It was from the same store from the same clutch so I knew that if there was any lingering bacteria or disease that was not presenting itself, they would both have it from being in the store together. Both fish get along well and swim together often, but also have their own preferred areas to hang out in. My fish that died would hang out next to the overflow grate and always struggled to swim a little in retrospect, but the new one is a great swimmer.

The new fish has only been in my tank for three days now, but he behaves a little oddly. His color is great, his appetite is great, and he has no visible signs or symptoms of disease. He is gorgeous and has great fin growth and looks super healthy. The only thing he does that concerns me is when he hangs out in the back corner.

He likes to go to the back corner of the tank under the filter grate and swim parallel to the wall (not touching it) but swim over and over again in the same spot for hours. He's not touching it or itching himself, just swimming parallel. It's bizarre. He's a good swimmer and has no issues with buoyancy, but he seems to get in a trance doing it. Then, he will randomly stop and swim around like normal. I think the flow is strong there and maybe he like swimming against it? I have tried shutting the filter off and he'll either swim away or keep on doing the same thing. I also lowered the flow thinking it was too strong, but he still persists. I don't have a powerhead, just an output of water in my cube that circles around the tank into the overflow grate (see my setup above) My other fish uses all the caves in the rock but this one LOVES the back corner and the parallel swimming is freaking me out. Is this cause for concern? Or just a weird fish?

Here he is, doing his little dance in the back corner.

Jay Hemdal · Jan 31, 2024

saltwatercube said:
Update: I got a second clownfish over the weekend. It was from the same store from the same clutch so I knew that if there was any lingering bacteria or disease that was not presenting itself, they would both have it from being in the store together. Both fish get along well and swim together often, but also have their own preferred areas to hang out in. My fish that died would hang out next to the overflow grate and always struggled to swim a little in retrospect, but the new one is a great swimmer.

The new fish has only been in my tank for three days now, but he behaves a little oddly. His color is great, his appetite is great, and he has no visible signs or symptoms of disease. He is gorgeous and has great fin growth and looks super healthy. The only thing he does that concerns me is when he hangs out in the back corner.

He likes to go to the back corner of the tank under the filter grate and swim parallel to the wall (not touching it) but swim over and over again in the same spot for hours. He's not touching it or itching himself, just swimming parallel. It's bizarre. He's a good swimmer and has no issues with buoyancy, but he seems to get in a trance doing it. Then, he will randomly stop and swim around like normal. I think the flow is strong there and maybe he like swimming against it? I have tried shutting the filter off and he'll either swim away or keep on doing the same thing. I also lowered the flow thinking it was too strong, but he still persists. I don't have a powerhead, just an output of water in my cube that circles around the tank into the overflow grate (see my setup above) My other fish uses all the caves in the rock but this one LOVES the back corner and the parallel swimming is freaking me out. Is this cause for concern? Or just a weird fish?

Here he is, doing his little dance in the back corner.

It may not be anything to worry about. In the absence of a just anemone, some clowns will just hunker down and “pretend” that there is an anemone in a specific spot.

That said, since you other clown died from an undiagnosed disease, you need to observe the remaining two fish for any subtle symptoms that might develop.

vetteguy53081 · Jan 31, 2024

saltwatercube said:
Update: I got a second clownfish over the weekend. It was from the same store from the same clutch so I knew that if there was any lingering bacteria or disease that was not presenting itself, they would both have it from being in the store together. Both fish get along well and swim together often, but also have their own preferred areas to hang out in. My fish that died would hang out next to the overflow grate and always struggled to swim a little in retrospect, but the new one is a great swimmer.

The new fish has only been in my tank for three days now, but he behaves a little oddly. His color is great, his appetite is great, and he has no visible signs or symptoms of disease. He is gorgeous and has great fin growth and looks super healthy. The only thing he does that concerns me is when he hangs out in the back corner.

He likes to go to the back corner of the tank under the filter grate and swim parallel to the wall (not touching it) but swim over and over again in the same spot for hours. He's not touching it or itching himself, just swimming parallel. It's bizarre. He's a good swimmer and has no issues with buoyancy, but he seems to get in a trance doing it. Then, he will randomly stop and swim around like normal. I think the flow is strong there and maybe he like swimming against it? I have tried shutting the filter off and he'll either swim away or keep on doing the same thing. I also lowered the flow thinking it was too strong, but he still persists. I don't have a powerhead, just an output of water in my cube that circles around the tank into the overflow grate (see my setup above) My other fish uses all the caves in the rock but this one LOVES the back corner and the parallel swimming is freaking me out. Is this cause for concern? Or just a weird fish?

Here he is, doing his little dance in the back corner.

I have 2 of 9 clowns that spend their time in the corner for the last two years but always come out to eat and not being intimidated.

vetteguy53081 · Jan 31, 2024

saltwatercube said:
Update: I got a second clownfish over the weekend. It was from the same store from the same clutch so I knew that if there was any lingering bacteria or disease that was not presenting itself, they would both have it from being in the store together. Both fish get along well and swim together often, but also have their own preferred areas to hang out in. My fish that died would hang out next to the overflow grate and always struggled to swim a little in retrospect, but the new one is a great swimmer.

The new fish has only been in my tank for three days now, but he behaves a little oddly. His color is great, his appetite is great, and he has no visible signs or symptoms of disease. He is gorgeous and has great fin growth and looks super healthy. The only thing he does that concerns me is when he hangs out in the back corner.

He likes to go to the back corner of the tank under the filter grate and swim parallel to the wall (not touching it) but swim over and over again in the same spot for hours. He's not touching it or itching himself, just swimming parallel. It's bizarre. He's a good swimmer and has no issues with buoyancy, but he seems to get in a trance doing it. Then, he will randomly stop and swim around like normal. I think the flow is strong there and maybe he like swimming against it? I have tried shutting the filter off and he'll either swim away or keep on doing the same thing. I also lowered the flow thinking it was too strong, but he still persists. I don't have a powerhead, just an output of water in my cube that circles around the tank into the overflow grate (see my setup above) My other fish uses all the caves in the rock but this one LOVES the back corner and the parallel swimming is freaking me out. Is this cause for concern? Or just a weird fish?

Here he is, doing his little dance in the back corner.

Can you post a short video of fish? Looks a tad thin and not sure if discolored

saltwatercube · Feb 1, 2024

vetteguy53081 said:
I have 2 of 9 clowns that spend their time in the corner for the last two years but always come out to eat and not being intimidated.

I am much less worried than I was. He swims around like normal and has other places that he likes and only behaves like this in the back corner. He is definitely thin for sure, I have been feeding pellets and mysis but he came thin, has been fattening up a little. He has a huge appetite, is never intimidated, and has no problems swimming. He has weird coloring, almost mocha. Here are a few pictures, I can take a video when I am home later.

(I kept my bully box in the tank so he swam in it, that's the weird plastic you're seeing).

He also came with that tiny notch on his tale, I assume it's from agresion in the fish store. But it has healed noticeably, in the 5 days that I have had him.

saltwatercube · Feb 1, 2024

Jay Hemdal said:
It may not be anything to worry about. In the absence of a just anemone, some clowns will just hunker down and “pretend” that there is an anemone in a specific spot.

That said, since you other clown died from an undiagnosed disease, you need to observe the remaining two fish for any subtle symptoms that might develop.

Since posting this, he has been there a lot less. My other fish are also attracted to the same spot (I think they like that it is open but also hidden) so I assume it might have the perfect flow or temperature or something to draw them there. All three of my fish occasionally go there and swim against the flow. I am watching closely for subtle symptoms, but he eats well and swims perfect. He is not shy and seems perfectly fine, just does a weird dance from time to time.

saltwatercube · Feb 1, 2024

vetteguy53081 said:
Can you post a short video of fish? Looks a tad thin and not sure if discolored

He happened to be doing the "dance here", but you can see he snaps out of it and tries to eat the white spec immediately.

vetteguy53081 · Feb 1, 2024

saltwatercube said:
I am much less worried than I was. He swims around like normal and has other places that he likes and only behaves like this in the back corner. He is definitely thin for sure, I have been feeding pellets and mysis but he came thin, has been fattening up a little. He has a huge appetite, is never intimidated, and has no problems swimming. He has weird coloring, almost mocha. Here are a few pictures, I can take a video when I am home later.

(I kept my bully box in the tank so he swam in it, that's the weird plastic you're seeing).

He also came with that tiny notch on his tale, I assume it's from agresion in the fish store. But it has healed noticeably, in the 5 days that I have had him.