Clownfish Help

[Westside Guy]

1) for water and salinity testing I recommend you get a good refractometer to test and not a hydrometer, most of which are not very accurate.

I totally agree about your suggestion to get a good refractometer and also a bottle of 35 ppt calibration solution.

2) for your tap water, what you need to test for is Total Dissolved Solids or TDS. Unless your tap water is coming out at zero TDS, it's unlikely you will be able to use your tap water for long term success. It's good that you're testing 0 nitrates, but that's not enough. You really need to be using RO/DI water to mix your saltwater. You can either buy it at an LFS or most of us get a small unit that we install in our homes and make water at home which is cheaper in the long run.
Just trying to help.

My LFS does not charge for RO/DI water and even if his store does the OP should tell them they should absorb the charge as a customer accommodation after all he was put through. He mentioned that he lives only 2 blocks away from the LFS and considering how small his tank is it probably wouldn't make sense for him to invest money and install a system in his home right now.

This water issue, however, is not the most important issue right this second. Your more important issues are getting the ammonia down in your tank (change some water) and treating your fish if they are sick, as opposed to just having gill burn.

I totally agree, this is extremely important.

 

[Westside Guy]

While you already seem to have lots of information to absorb in the above posts, I'm just going to say this... It is normal to be overwhelmed at first. I go to my lfs and I love them -- but there are certain sales people that I avoid like the plague. I learned that through trial and error and in some cases the loss of life in my tanks. I'm sure your store is very reputable; but now you know to be cautious with the information they give you. You have done nothing wrong here -- someone you thought you could trust just gave you bad advice about setting up a tank. Read lots on this forum. Read lots elsewhere. Watch YouTube videos (BRS has a wonderful series of 52 weeks of reefing.) Suddenly, a switch will flip and everything starts to make sense. Good luck!

The manager at my LFS recommended that I watch that BRS series on my first visit to his store when I was researching my tank and equipment.

 

[MurphTech]

Thanks for the input guys.

I mentioned earlier that while I do not have a RO/DI system in my house BUT I did put in a nice 5 stage water filtration system in my home due to poor water quality from the street. While I know that will not achieve the same results as an RO system, I had a budget to work with last year and a whole home RO system was not going to fit into it. This area is probably the next Flint Michigan story that you'll never hear about. I am guessing a lot of effort is taken to prevent the same PR crisis in Flint. Newark NJ water uses a lot of the same infrastructure as other local towns use and I am right down the road from Newark. Newark Water Crisis. It's pretty plain and simple I live in some of the oldest infrastructure in the country and it is all breaking down across the board. Getting clean water for my family last year was a priority.

I tested my water last after the filtration installation and dissolved solids are pretty much a zero across the board. If not a zero than dam close to it. This is the same water that I use to make my saltwater. I'll probably ask about RO water from the LFS but I'd like to see if I can go a couple of days without walking through that door to that place again. I need to try and control the leak of cash on this aquarium too.

I will order a good refractometer and some calibration solution too. Where does everyone buy these supplies from? Are all of your purchases always from your LFS? I am an IT guy so 99% of the stuff I buy gets delivered right to the door. Amazon seem like it would be okay for somethings but I am little concerned with perishable items from them. I doubt they're moving volume there to keep inventory fresh. I cant help but feel you guys like/support different online reputable vendors. I have come across a bunch but I just haven't tried any yet.

I also have watched a few BRS videos. I will definitely sit through the 52 weeks of reefing and see how far through I can get through the weekend.

FYI fish seems to be doing pretty good after its bath yesterday. Lots of swimming around throughout the tank. The inflamation does not look like its gotten worse but also doesn't look to be any smaller either. I checked the water quality about an hour ago and it looks pretty good.
Temp - 78
PH - 8.3
Salt - 1.023
Ammonia is sitting right at 0.25ppm.
Nitrite - between 0 and 0.225
Nitrate - looked closer to 0

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

 

[Seawitch]

If your water at home is TDS zero or close to zero, then forget about it. Use your tap water. My tap water is TDS=80, and that's why I have a little RO/DI unit. There are also no good LFS near me.

And this may sound beginner-ish, but I mean no disrespect. It's a good idea to label your buckets with indelible ink and have more than one. Mine all say FOR AQ USE ONLY in big letters with a skull and crossbones. I do this because my stuff has a way of walking into my husband's home auto shop where he does I-don't-know-what-with-it if I'm not super careful.

One says MEDS
One says SW
One says FW

Any nets or other equipment you use when you're medicating your fish in the bucket need to be sterilized between uses too. Just use water and plain household bleach with no additives. Some people would use certain instruments or nets only for use with meds. Otherwise it's easy to keep reinfecting the tank or the bucket etc. Some people have several tanks.

As long as the ammonia is elevated, I'd change some water every day then add more bacteria from the bottle.

We're rooting for you. Where else are you going to find a bunch of people all over the world sitting on the edges of their seats waiting for updates from "the guy in NJ with a sick fish"?

 

[Oldsalt]

A couple of things. I don't think these have been addressed yet.

1) for water and salinity testing I recommend you get a good refractometer to test and not a hydrometer, most of which are not very accurate.

2) for your tap water, what you need to test for is Total Dissolved Solids or TDS. Unless your tap water is coming out at zero TDS, it's unlikely you will be able to use your tap water for long term success. It's good that you're testing 0 nitrates, but that's not enough. You really need to be using RO/DI water to mix your saltwater. You can either buy it at an LFS or most of us get a small unit that we install in our homes and make water at home which is cheaper in the long run. This water issue, however, is not the most important issue right this second. Your more important issues are getting the ammonia down in your tank (change some water) and treating your fish if they are sick, as opposed to just having gill burn.

Just trying to help.

Was just about to mention RODI because nobody had yet. If you're mixing your own saltwater, you need a Reverse Osmosis and Deionised (what RO-DI stands for) kit to clean your tap water properly as there are many dissolved salts and solids in it. They're on ebay and affordable. I get Indian Ocean (I'm in Western Australia) water delivered regularly so I don't need to mix, but I have a 4 stage RODI unit for topping off evaporated water. That's another thing I see new comers doing - adding saltwater to the tank when it evaporates. Only the fresh evaporates, leaving your water more salt dense. The RODI kits are easy to use and don't require a plumber to install. They come with tap adapters as needed for use inside or outside the home.

 

[Peace River]

Thanks for the input guys.
...
I will order a good refractometer and some calibration solution too. Where does everyone buy these supplies from? Are all of your purchases always from your LFS? I am an IT guy so 99% of the stuff I buy gets delivered right to the door. Amazon seem like it would be okay for somethings but I am little concerned with perishable items from them. I doubt they're moving volume there to keep inventory fresh. I cant help but feel you guys like/support different online reputable vendors. I have come across a bunch but I just haven't tried any yet.

I also have watched a few BRS videos. I will definitely sit through the 52 weeks of reefing and see how far through I can get through the weekend.
...
Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

You can check out the vendor section of the forum as well as online sellers for supplies and hardware. One place to look for your refractometer, pricing an RO/DI unit, and much more is Bulk Reef Supply (BRS) at www.bulkreefsupply.com. This is were I got my RO/DI system and many other aquarium items. Good luck!

 

[Sassifrass7]

I live in Northen NJ. Not too far from NYC. The LFS has a 4.6 Google rating with 650 reviews. There are other options and I will explore them.

I also don't want to jump to any crazy conclusions on them either. 650 Google reviews must mean they must be doing some right and it is a business. At the end of the day they really are there to make money, support jobs and get the bills paid. I am sure the owners are not trying to run a charity and the fact of the matter is if a customer is looking to spend $500+ you better be ready to sell that person something. However, was very open with them that I wanted to be sure that I was doing things correctly and having the knowledge to take on this hobby for the family.

If the water quality has nothing to do with it and I just bought a "lemon" fish that has some kind of bacterial infection well then that's par for the course with my luck and I get a crazy crash course in this hobby.

I think I need all the facts I can get which I should hopefully have in an hour. At that point it will be easier to make decisions as well as add or take away confidence in the local fish store.

The second fish seems to be doing really well but I also don't know if one fish can be more sensitive than the other within the genus(?).

So you live near Absolutely Fish, right? They are supposed to be one of the best stores around! And I'm sure they would baby sit your fish if you asked them.
Give them a call! What fish store did you buy your stuff from? I'm curious since I also live in NJ. We used to use Tropiquarium in Ocean, NJ. But they finally closed because the boss needed to retire. Very very sad. I miss going there so much. Any way, give Absolutely Fish a call. They have a website too.

 

[Oldsalt]

You

So you live near Absolutely Fish, right? They are supposed to be one of the best stores around! And I'm sure they would baby sit your fish if you asked them.
Give them a call! What fish store did you buy your stuff from? I'm curious since I also live in NJ. We used to use Tropiquarium in Ocean, NJ. But they finally closed because the boss needed to retire. Very very sad. I miss going there so much. Any way, give Absolutely Fish a call. They have a website too.

You guys are making me homesick! I was born and raised in Queens NY. I joined the USNavy and got hitched to an Australian lady in 1982. When I finished my tours, we immigrated to Perth Western Australia where her family are.
I'm curious about something - can you possibly drive out to Long Island and get your own water? Is the LI sound clean enough? I used to go to my grandparents house in the Hamptons and swim out to the sandbar to pull clams up into my bucket. We ate them raw with beer chasers on the beach. I'm talking about the 60's to mid 70's. Those were the days!! Right now I'm thinking about a few slices of NY pizza.... OMG.my mouth is watering....

 

[MurphTech]

So you live near Absolutely Fish, right? They are supposed to be one of the best stores around! And I'm sure they would baby sit your fish if you asked them.
Give them a call! What fish store did you buy your stuff from? I'm curious since I also live in NJ. We used to use Tropiquarium in Ocean, NJ. But they finally closed because the boss needed to retire. Very very sad. I miss going there so much. Any way, give Absolutely Fish a call. They have a website too.

I figured at some point someone would bring up my LFS in question. I didn't want to publicly mention them because I don't really think the store purposefully tried to put me in this situation and I am not really ready to say they are a bad fish store. In fact I said it in a previous post that with amount of reviews and ratings on Google, they must be doing something right. And to someone else's credit in the thread, every place store will have some employees that you will want to avoid. The guy who sold me everything did go over cycling the tank, but he felt that I would be fine with the live sand, and the live rock and some water changes.

I also don't think this is ammonia burn. I noticed something within 36 hours going on with the fish and the ammonia levels never really got that high. Nor is the other fish in the tank having any complications. After the mediation bath the patient seems to be doing well. If this really is a bacterial infection then that's just my bad luck. The bacteria could have came from anywhere; the bag, the air, the acclimation bucket, something else, who knows.

I also think this builds experience for me and teaches me something which is the most important thing with every hobby. It's about learning and enjoying the entire experience you get out of it. The successes and failures alike. Of course losing life of an animal and the humanity of the way these animals are treated is very important but I also don't think I have been cruel in anyway and I am trying to be cautious in my experiences. If I thought the fish not going to make it and if it was looking worse and not eating, then I would probable seek help from them to hold the fish. Each step here has taught me a little more and I have learned a lot in the last 7 days. I am sure that if I were to get another tank or upgrade, I won't ever cycle a tank this way again. But that also would not have anything to with what I am directly dealing with here.

I am still not sure whether I want to do another bath though. The area is still not looking normal but it doesn't appear to have progressed either. Perhaps this will just be a scar the fish has for the remainder of its life. I'll try to pull out the DSLR later to get as best a clear picture that I can get and upload it here for some input from the wise and experienced who have helped me so far.

 

[MurphTech]

You

You guys are making me homesick! I was born and raised in Queens NY. I joined the USNavy and got hitched to an Australian lady in 1982. When I finished my tours, we immigrated to Perth Western Australia where her family are.
I'm curious about something - can you possibly drive out to Long Island and get your own water? Is the LI sound clean enough? I used to go to my grandparents house in the Hamptons and swim out to the sandbar to pull clams up into my bucket. We ate them raw with beer chasers on the beach. I'm talking about the 60's to mid 70's. Those were the days!! Right now I'm thinking about a few slices of NY pizza.... OMG.my mouth is watering....

Australia is too hot for me and I am sure the bread/bagels/pizza and a lot of the other creature comforts that exist in this area would be dearly missed. I basically refuse to get pizza and bagels from anywhere that is not in Northen NJ/NYC. Also forget about amount of sleep I would lose staying awake at night wondering if some of those spiders I see on the web are watching me at night. However, it sounds like a wonderful journey life has taken you on.

As far as a trip to Long Island sounds goes, I don't know when the last time you were in this area but with the traffic and tolls forget about it. It's probably a least a 5 hour round trip and $50 in tolls to got the 60 or 70 miles depending how far you want to go and that if you stay out of the rush hour windows. Time and toll prices only go up from there. Buying a RO/DI system sounds cheaper than one trip for me at least. But I do go to the Jersey shore often and while the Jersey shore has its probablems with offshore dumping and trash, it definly has gotten better in the past 10 - 15 years. I remember as a kid in the 90's going down the shore with my parents and thinking the ocean looked brown/green. Now it's starting to look blue to me.

 

[ScottR]

Someone mentioned ordering from Bulk Reef Supply. Can’t ever go wrong there. Also, they have lots of great instructional videos on YouTube I highly recommend.

 

[MurphTech]

Alright, I took out the DSLR and tried my best to get the best pictures I could. It's not easy to get a clean focused image of small moving target like that and I am no professional. I am sure the dirty inside of the glass didn't help either. I think I see there a some nice friends that I can purchase in a bit to take care of just that.

So these two are probably the two best photos worth sharing. It kind of looks like the gill flap is missing a chunk. If its missing a chunk I doubt that's coming back. How could that have happened? I feel like the patient was more of the aggressive one. Maybe they aren't getting a long when my back is turned?

My gut tells me to leave it alone and not to bother medicating the fish again. It eats, swims around the tank, and makes waste. What else can I ask for from a fish?

Does the community agree? I shouldn't bother medicating the fish again, right?

 

[Baseball#27]

I actually had a pair of clownfish just like yours, and the female had the same issue with the extruding gill flap. From my research, I figured out that it's actually genetic and sometimes when the breeders breed these clown fish, that is a genetic deformity. It doesn't affect the fish in its ability to breath or anything because their gills still work the same as one that would have "normal" gills. The blood flow is still opposite of the water going out of the fish (though its mouth because marine fish gain solutes and in response try to get rid of it by drinking water), thus, oxygen being converted is still being maximized. The ones I had had zero issues during their life with me. I did eventually sell them just to make some money cause I needed it at the time, but they were some awesome fish. My first pair actually. So in my opinion, there's really nothing to worry about, it's just a defect in genetics from overbreeding, that won't affect the fishes health at all. So yes, your fish is perfectly fine and there's no need to medicate.

 

[MurphTech]

I actually had a pair of clownfish just like yours, and the female had the same issue with the extruding gill flap. From my research, I figured out that it's actually genetic and sometimes when the breeders breed these clown fish, that is a genetic deformity. It doesn't affect the fish in its ability to breath or anything because their gills still work the same as one that would have "normal" gills. The blood flow is still opposite of the water going out of the fish (though its mouth because marine fish gain solutes and in response try to get rid of it by drinking water), thus, oxygen being converted is still being maximized. The ones I had had zero issues during their life with me. I did eventually sell them just to make some money cause I needed it at the time, but they were some awesome fish. My first pair actually. So in my opinion, there's really nothing to worry about, it's just a defect in genetics from overbreeding, that won't affect the fishes health at all. So yes, your fish is perfectly fine and there's no need to medicate.

Wow, that's pretty crazy. So just for clarity and to further understand my case and yours, that extruding gill flap wasn't there when I purchased the fish. I would have noticed something like that in the store before I picked her out. My understanding is that the larger fish changes sex to be female if they are both male once paired in the tank. Could it have turned into a female fish that quickly in the 24/36 hours and this genetic mutation came out?

 

[Baseball#27]

It definitely could have been the case. Clownfish do have genetic deformities due to over breeding by breeders and some females (when changed to female from male) genetically develop this extruding gill. Furthermore, this isn't something to worry about because it won't affect the fishes ability to breathe and or discomfort the fish. So yea, your clown should be fine!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Very commonly seen in tank raised species