Clownfish mystery?

[moose11]

Hello all,

I am not new to SW and I have a successful tank running with several fish. I recently started a new nano lagoon because my significant other wanted a midnight clown very badly. I got the tank, used live rock and media from my other tank to seed, and waited for parameters to even out. Once it appeared the cycle was complete I added her midnight clown.

Since adding him I have been testing parameters daily
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate ~5
Ph 8
Dkh9
I don’t test mag or cal since I done have corals

The one think I noticed this evening is the water was a 1.028, which I’m not sure how it happened other than someone added water when they weren’t supposed to, as when I began the tank it was 1.025 and I’ve been topping off with RODI (and haven’t checked since)

It is unknown how long it has been at 1.028 however the fish has only been in the tank ~4 days, so not long. I’ve read salinity can be lowered relatively quickly so I’ve brought the salinity down to 1.025.

Problem is the fish swims in one spot, won’t really eat that I can see when feeding (nori, calanus, live baby brine, mysis, spirulina frozen brine, reef frenzy etc) soaked in selcon, brightwell aminomega or garlic guard. I also culture pods and have maintained a constant supply in the tank to try and entice him with the movement.

He also appears to be breathing heavy. I will try to attach videos for reference. I don’t see any outward sign of disease but it’s hard to tell due to his nearly all black/dark coloring. Along with those symptoms he’s also displaying long white stringy poop. I’ve read this could either be internal parasites or mucus/lack of eating and am not sure which to believe.

If internal and he won’t eat, how do I administer meds? Is it possible to treat in DT? He is the sole occupant minus clean up crew which consists of several nassarius snails and blue hermits, as well as bristle worms and a few small polyps of palythoas that hitch hiked in on the rock I used from my other tank.

Is the breathing caused by flukes? Stress from hyper salinity? Is my flow too strong, causing stress? (The return pump is fairly large for this tank but turned down to the lowest setting) which was by design to try and mitigate use of powerheads for aeration)

The LFS has sold me many fish, and I’ve never had a parasite/disease so I didn’t feel the need to QT as I am confident with the fish he sends me typically. This fish was in his tank for over a month and a half looking healthy and happy which also helped to reduce my concern as to the need for QT which was foregone due to the aforementioned confidence with the supplier as well of lack of space to appropriately do it along with time constraints with work being a busy season.

Thanks in advance everyone!!

 

[moose11]

I also failed to mention initially that when he swims in the one spot, he often goes tail up and head down and swims nearly vertically. He will right himself and then slowly his tail fin will go up and he’ll be vertical again, just to right himself again and so on so forth. He swims around time to time and seems to have no trouble swimming when he chooses to (infrequently) but when he sits in his spot it seems he’s having a difficult time.

 

[moose11]

It appears the videos won’t work so here is the YouTube links

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

bump
#fishmedics

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry - I just woke up.

We see this a lot in clownfish - not eating, rapid breathing and stringy feces. The breathing is from either systemic disease causing anemia, poor water quality, or gill disease. The not eating is related to the stringy feces: it can be mucus from an internal protozoan, or mucus from no food going through the GI tract.

If the fish hasn't fed for you since being acquired, I think the issue came from the LFS. I would contact them to see what they think.

There is not often a good treatment for this syndrome though. Nobody is sure of the cause - it could be viral or coccidia, neither of which are treatable.

In case it is gill flukes and/or internal protozoans, people have dose API General Cure in a treatment tank. I can't think of any effective treatment that can be used in the DT though.

 

[moose11]

Sorry - I just woke up.

We see this a lot in clownfish - not eating, rapid breathing and stringy feces. The breathing is from either systemic disease causing anemia, poor water quality, or gill disease. The not eating is related to the stringy feces: it can be mucus from an internal protozoan, or mucus from no food going through the GI tract.

If the fish hasn't fed for you since being acquired, I think the issue came from the LFS. I would contact them to see what they think.

There is not often a good treatment for this syndrome though. Nobody is sure of the cause - it could be viral or coccidia, neither of which are treatable.

In case it is gill flukes and/or internal protozoans, people have dose API General Cure in a treatment tank. I can't think of any effective treatment that can be used in the DT though.

I will try general cure. If it is viral or coccidia, and the general cure does not work, is the fish basically just waiting to die? Or is there a chance that he fights his way out of it similar to a viral infection in humans like the flu etc. or Would it be better off being put out of its misery peacefully? Thanks for the information Jay!

 

[moose11]

I will try general cure. If it is viral or coccidia, and the general cure does not work, is the fish basically just waiting to die? Or is there a chance that he fights his way out of it similar to a viral infection in humans like the flu etc. or Would it be better off being put out of its misery peacefully? Thanks for the information Jay!

Additionally, is there a chance of this being spread? Or is it localized to the fish? He spent some time in the other DT after an issue with sand being stirred up while I waited for the filter floss to do its work and remove the particles from the water, and am now worried about the other fish.

 

[moose11]

The result of a FW dip showed a slight improvement briefly and now back to the same behavior. The dip also revealed flukes.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Additionally, is there a chance of this being spread? Or is it localized to the fish? He spent some time in the other DT after an issue with sand being stirred up while I waited for the filter floss to do its work and remove the particles from the water, and am now worried about the other fish.

It doesn’t seem to be highly contagious, but I would think that other clownfish would be at the greatest risk.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The result of a FW dip showed a slight improvement briefly and now back to the same behavior. The dip also revealed flukes.

I don’t see what you are referring to as flukes here……

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I will try general cure. If it is viral or coccidia, and the general cure does not work, is the fish basically just waiting to die? Or is there a chance that he fights his way out of it similar to a viral infection in humans like the flu etc. or Would it be better off being put out of its misery peacefully? Thanks for the information Jay!

Some fish recover without treatment, just supportive care.

 

[moose11]

I don’t see what you are referring to as flukes here……

The round white things at the bottom of the glass I believed to be flukes, they looked similar to what was in the humblefish video after a FW dip.

They came off the fish during the dip, are they maybe something else?

I will keep an eye on the other clowns in the other system, they’ve been healthy and eating well for quite a while now, maybe I’ll do some preventative maintenance and medicate their food for a short time to be extra cautious.

What surprises me the most is the new clown was healthy in the store for over a month and once he came home began to develope these symptoms.

He has been moved to a QT tank today with GC for the time being, I’ve also ordered metro since we can’t get it locally.

I am hoping it may be a fluke somewhere with water quality or parameters that I wasn’t aware of versus illness due to the sudden onset of symptoms after a relatively long stay at the LFS.

Regardless I’ll be investing the time from here on out to quarantine fish appropriately.

Thanks again for the time and the insight Jay.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The round white things at the bottom of the glass I believed to be flukes, they looked similar to what was in the humblefish video after a FW dip.

They came off the fish during the dip, are they maybe something else?

I will keep an eye on the other clowns in the other system, they’ve been healthy and eating well for quite a while now, maybe I’ll do some preventative maintenance and medicate their food for a short time to be extra cautious.

What surprises me the most is the new clown was healthy in the store for over a month and once he came home began to develope these symptoms.

He has been moved to a QT tank today with GC for the time being, I’ve also ordered metro since we can’t get it locally.

I am hoping it may be a fluke somewhere with water quality or parameters that I wasn’t aware of versus illness due to the sudden onset of symptoms after a relatively long stay at the LFS.

Regardless I’ll be investing the time from here on out to quarantine fish appropriately.

Thanks again for the time and the insight Jay.

Those aren’t Neobenedenia flukes. The other types of flukes are all too small to identify without a microscope. I’d say these are just balls of mucus. I suppose if the picture is magnified more than I think it is, they could be flukes …

Don’t forget, GC has metro in it, so don’t dose metro on top of GC.

 

[moose11]

Those aren’t Neobenedenia flukes. The other types of flukes are all too small to identify without a microscope. I’d say these are just balls of mucus. I suppose if the picture is magnified more than I think it is, they could be flukes …

Don’t forget, GC has metro in it, so don’t dose metro on top of GC.

Oh okay! My apologies, I just saw little white things and was hopeful that the treatment was maybe helping. I think

Thanks again for all of the information! And yes I will keep the metro separate from the GC. I plan to do two rounds of the GC as described on the box in the quarantine and then maybe try feeding metro.

I do have one last question. If this fish does make it, I obviously want to reintroduce the fish to disease or illness ridden system and continue the lifecycle of whatever it was that made him sick in the first place. Do you have any ideas/opinions/thoughts on a fallow period for the system so that I don’t get this fish or other fish sick again? It’s difficult because I don’t really know what exactly it is that made him sick in the first place.

I really do appreciate you taking your time to give me some tips. Thank you again!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Oh okay! My apologies, I just saw little white things and was hopeful that the treatment was maybe helping. I think

Thanks again for all of the information! And yes I will keep the metro separate from the GC. I plan to do two rounds of the GC as described on the box in the quarantine and then maybe try feeding metro.

I do have one last question. If this fish does make it, I obviously want to reintroduce the fish to disease or illness ridden system and continue the lifecycle of whatever it was that made him sick in the first place. Do you have any ideas/opinions/thoughts on a fallow period for the system so that I don’t get this fish or other fish sick again? It’s difficult because I don’t really know what exactly it is that made him sick in the first place.

I really do appreciate you taking your time to give me some tips. Thank you again!

Fallow periods of 60 days seems to work for the three main fish parasites: ich, flukes or velvet.

 

[moose11]

Fallow periods of 60 days seems to work for the three main fish parasites: ich, flukes or velvet.

Well after almost the first 48 hours and the 1st dose of GC the condition appears to be improving slightly. He’s no longer swimming vertically or nearly upside down. Still heavy breathing and white stringy poop. Second dose of GC is going in soon. Any tips on how to get him to actually eat so I can get the meds into him to get rid of the possible internal worms/parasites? I’ve tried garlic but to no avail.

I’ve also got eretrhomycin on hand. Does his tail look like fin rot to you? He’s been the only fish in his system for nearly a week and a half now and that is new. Water was tested again and parameters were all the same as what was originally listed. I’m not sure if maybe I’m missing something water quality wise that’s causing the condition. Also the QT was set up with freshly mixed salt water with the same salt as he is used to, and all params matched.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Well after almost the first 48 hours and the 1st dose of GC the condition appears to be improving slightly. He’s no longer swimming vertically or nearly upside down. Still heavy breathing and white stringy poop. Second dose of GC is going in soon. Any tips on how to get him to actually eat so I can get the meds into him to get rid of the possible internal worms/parasites? I’ve tried garlic but to no avail.

I’ve also got eretrhomycin on hand. Does his tail look like fin rot to you? He’s been the only fish in his system for nearly a week and a half now and that is new. Water was tested again and parameters were all the same as what was originally listed. I’m not sure if maybe I’m missing something water quality wise that’s causing the condition. Also the QT was set up with freshly mixed salt water with the same salt as he is used to, and all params matched.

The GC has metronidazole in it and marine fish drink water, do it is getting dosed that way. Dont try dosing the food unless you have a gram scale to measure out the dose (we have an article in the fish disease section to tell you how ratio fo that).
The tail fin doesn’t look too bad, but erythromycin is mostly for gram positive bacteria and most external bacteria on marine fish are gram negative. Neoplex would be a better choice.