Clownfish Sudden Blindness?

[ncsuben]

I have two young tanks a 90g and 15g and am following the serious reefs cycling method. Purchased two clownfish (mocha and a fancy white semi) who went through the same quarantine in a divided 10g tank: 2 - 6-hour prazi pro baths (once upon arriving and then again ~a week later), copper power (2.5 - 2.65), and metronidazole dosed q48h with whole water changes every 3 days.

Fish did great in quarantine. Main tanks read 0 ammonia, nitrates -15 ppm (not 10 and not 25 on the salifert). So both fish placed in respective tanks Sunday morning.

Both were doing great until yesterday. The fancy white semi (of course) in the 15g started swimming circles around the tank and running into things. No outward visible concerns, no rapid breathing, no cloudiness to eyes.

However, it doesn’t even seem to know where food, hands, or nets are unless they run into him.

Sunday through Monday he was just hanging out in one corner. After he displayed these issues I found salinity was a bit low - 31 ppm due to an ATO issue. I drip acclimated him to 35 ppm and checked all tank parameters which stand at:

SG: 35 ppm
Temp: 77.4 (controller set to 78)
Alk: 8.3
Nitrate: 10-15
Phos: 0.036
Ammonia: 0

Mocha clown in the 90g is fine with no issues.

Video of him this afternoon after being moved into quarantine tank with divider, PVC, no meds this morning:

I know there’s probably not much I can do but wait, but I don’t want this to happen to another fish I may put in that tank. Thoughts?

 

[ncsuben]

@Humblefish would a methylene blue bath help? I just ordered but won’t get here until Friday.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have two young tanks a 90g and 15g and am following the serious reefs cycling method. Purchased two clownfish (mocha and a fancy white semi) who went through the same quarantine in a divided 10g tank: 2 - 6-hour prazi pro baths (once upon arriving and then again ~a week later), copper power (2.5 - 2.65), and metronidazole dosed q48h with whole water changes every 3 days.

Fish did great in quarantine. Main tanks read 0 ammonia, nitrates -15 ppm (not 10 and not 25 on the salifert). So both fish placed in respective tanks Sunday morning.

Both were doing great until yesterday. The fancy white semi (of course) in the 15g started swimming circles around the tank and running into things. No outward visible concerns, no rapid breathing, no cloudiness to eyes.

However, it doesn’t even seem to know where food, hands, or nets are unless they run into him.

Sunday through Monday he was just hanging out in one corner. After he displayed these issues I found salinity was a bit low - 31 ppm due to an ATO issue. I drip acclimated him to 35 ppm and checked all tank parameters which stand at:

SG: 35 ppm
Temp: 77.4 (controller set to 78)
Alk: 8.3
Nitrate: 10-15
Phos: 0.036
Ammonia: 0

Mocha clown in the 90g is fine with no issues.

Video of him this afternoon after being moved into quarantine tank with divider, PVC, no meds this morning:

I know there’s probably not much I can do but wait, but I don’t want this to happen to another fish I may put in that tank. Thoughts?

No metheyne blue and how was fish acclimated to the tank?
Often this happens from trauma, injury or high nitrate and ammonia levels. In addition, can be genetic or retina damage but can be neurological ,but moreso, can be caused by flukes. In addition, can be impact injury from physical trauma leading to neurological symptoms and blindness changes the appearance of the pupil and often non-treatable. Some blind fish will seek food, and live a few years as long as there is no bully causing additional stress

 

[ncsuben]

I have two young tanks a 90g and 15g and am following the serious reefs cycling method. Purchased two clownfish (mocha and a fancy white semi) who went through the same quarantine in a divided 10g tank: 2 - 6-hour prazi pro baths (once upon arriving and then again ~a week later), copper power (2.5 - 2.65), and metronidazole dosed q48h with whole water changes every 3 days.

Fish did great in quarantine. Main tanks read 0 ammonia, nitrates -15 ppm (not 10 and not 25 on the salifert). So both fish placed in respective tanks Sunday morning.

Both were doing great until yesterday. The fancy white semi (of course) in the 15g started swimming circles around the tank and running into things. No outward visible concerns, no rapid breathing, no cloudiness to eyes.

However, it doesn’t even seem to know where food, hands, or nets are unless they run into him.

Sunday through Monday he was just hanging out in one corner. After he displayed these issues I found salinity was a bit low - 31 ppm due to an ATO issue. I drip acclimated him to 35 ppm and checked all tank parameters which stand at:

SG: 35 ppm
Temp: 77.4 (controller set to 78)
Alk: 8.3
Nitrate: 10-15
Phos: 0.036
Ammonia: 0

Mocha clown in the 90g is fine with no issues.

Video of him this afternoon after being moved into quarantine tank with divider, PVC, no meds this morning:

I know there’s probably not much I can do but wait, but I don’t want this to happen to another fish I may put in that tank. Thoughts?

No metheyne blue and how was fish acclimated to the tank?
Often this happens from trauma, injury or high nitrate and ammonia levels. In addition, can be genetic or retina damage but can be neurological ,but moreso, can be caused by flukes. In addition, can be impact injury from physical trauma leading to neurological symptoms and blindness changes the appearance of the pupil and often non-treatable. Some blind fish will seek food, and live a few years as long as there is no bully causing additional stress

Acclimation in terms of water - floated in bag for 15 min, small aliquots of water from tank added to bag in 10 min increments to allow other parameters like nitrates, pH, etc equilibrate.

Then he was placed in the tank prior to lights coming on. Lights came on and he was fine all of Sunday, all of Monday, eating well, coming to where food was placed, etc.

Tuesday morning, before his tank lights came on noticed he was “more active.” Turns out this was him swimming in pseudo-circles and changing direction upon bumping into things.

Given he was quarantined with the other clown who is fine and put through prazi x2, metro q48h for 14 days, and copper, I don’t see how parasitism could be a thing but suppose never say never.

Hard for me to evaluate fish eyes (used to cats and dogs as I was a small animal vet for 6 years). His pupils look the same as the clown in the 90g. Would I be able to see pupillary constriction if I use my phone flashlight on a lower power? I assume I’d have to isolate him in like a sandwich bag to assess. Absolutely no obvious outward abnormalities, no rapid breathing. I do think I can see prominent blood vessels on his temples…but that may be me seeing things. He may have a displaced scale on his chin from running into things too…but no lesions.

I too am thinking blunt force trauma/injury. I will say the guy at the LFS caught him immediately and he’s always been easy to catch…vs the other who swims like mad to get away.

Thanks for the help…of course it was my wife’s favorite one…and the more expensive one

 

[Fish Fan]

Thanks for the help…of course it was my wife’s favorite one…and the more expensive one

That's always the way

I personally can't make out much from your video; bump for the R2R #fishmedics

 

[ncsuben]

Thanks for the help…of course it was my wife’s favorite one…and the more expensive one

That's always the way

I personally can't make out much from your video; bump for the R2R #fishmedics

It’s always the case that the most obvious instances occur once “record” is stopped.

That being said, the video isn’t great but is just to demonstrate he will swim full bore into the side at times before changing direction. It was really obvious in the tank when I shut off the rerun and wave maker he became disoriented because he couldn’t find his pattern and started running into everything and actually got somewhat stuck in an arch of the rock work.

Thanks for the assist! My foray into salt is a rocky one, but perseverance will win out.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I have two young tanks a 90g and 15g and am following the serious reefs cycling method. Purchased two clownfish (mocha and a fancy white semi) who went through the same quarantine in a divided 10g tank: 2 - 6-hour prazi pro baths (once upon arriving and then again ~a week later), copper power (2.5 - 2.65), and metronidazole dosed q48h with whole water changes every 3 days.

Fish did great in quarantine. Main tanks read 0 ammonia, nitrates -15 ppm (not 10 and not 25 on the salifert). So both fish placed in respective tanks Sunday morning.

Both were doing great until yesterday. The fancy white semi (of course) in the 15g started swimming circles around the tank and running into things. No outward visible concerns, no rapid breathing, no cloudiness to eyes.

However, it doesn’t even seem to know where food, hands, or nets are unless they run into him.

Sunday through Monday he was just hanging out in one corner. After he displayed these issues I found salinity was a bit low - 31 ppm due to an ATO issue. I drip acclimated him to 35 ppm and checked all tank parameters which stand at:

SG: 35 ppm
Temp: 77.4 (controller set to 78)
Alk: 8.3
Nitrate: 10-15
Phos: 0.036
Ammonia: 0

Mocha clown in the 90g is fine with no issues.

Video of him this afternoon after being moved into quarantine tank with divider, PVC, no meds this morning:

I know there’s probably not much I can do but wait, but I don’t want this to happen to another fish I may put in that tank. Thoughts?

True blindness in fish is pretty rare, it wasn’t clear to me - will this fish eat if it stumbles across some food? That’s a key diagnostic for blindness. If the fish just bumps around and doesn’t eat, that’s something other than the eyes, something more systemic.

 

[ncsuben]

True blindness in fish is pretty rare, it wasn’t clear to me - will this fish eat if it stumbles across some food? That’s a key diagnostic for blindness. If the fish just bumps around and doesn’t eat, that’s something other than the eyes, something more systemic.

Thanks Jay...trying to sort that out now. He changes his swimming patterns once food is in the water as if he can smell it. However, I isolated him in a plastic bag and used flake, he ran into the flake but didn't try to eat it...though I know being in the bag could stress him to where he isn't going to eat either.

I can hand catch him no problem because he can't see it coming. Still no outward visible symptoms.

What systemic conditions/issues are possible following a 14 day quarantine with copper, metro, prazi-pro x2? I know no quarantine protocol is a guarantee, but feel like this is fairly robust against the commonly encountered issues...and to have no other outward symptoms even breathing rapidly has me stumped.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks Jay...trying to sort that out now. He changes his swimming patterns once food is in the water as if he can smell it. However, I isolated him in a plastic bag and used flake, he ran into the flake but didn't try to eat it...though I know being in the bag could stress him to where he isn't going to eat either.

I can hand catch him no problem because he can't see it coming. Still no outward visible symptoms.

What systemic conditions/issues are possible following a 14 day quarantine with copper, metro, prazi-pro x2? I know no quarantine protocol is a guarantee, but feel like this is fairly robust against the commonly encountered issues...and to have no other outward symptoms even breathing rapidly has me stumped.

Blindness is typically caused by some nerve damage; injury, or some internal infections. It can also be caused by nutritional deficiency - vitamin A or B2. However, to see that, you almost need to feed the fish a specially made deficient diet for a long period.

Here is a link to an article I wrote on basic eye health in fishes:

https://reefs.com/magazine/aquarium-fish-the-eyes-have-it-a-review-of-eye-health-in-aquarium-fishes/

 

[ncsuben]

Thanks Jay...trying to sort that out now. He changes his swimming patterns once food is in the water as if he can smell it. However, I isolated him in a plastic bag and used flake, he ran into the flake but didn't try to eat it...though I know being in the bag could stress him to where he isn't going to eat either.

I can hand catch him no problem because he can't see it coming. Still no outward visible symptoms.

What systemic conditions/issues are possible following a 14 day quarantine with copper, metro, prazi-pro x2? I know no quarantine protocol is a guarantee, but feel like this is fairly robust against the commonly encountered issues...and to have no other outward symptoms even breathing rapidly has me stumped.

Blindness is typically caused by some nerve damage; injury, or some internal infections. It can also be caused by nutritional deficiency - vitamin A or B2. However, to see that, you almost need to feed the fish a specially made deficient diet for a long period.

Here is a link to an article I wrote on basic eye health in fishes:

https://reefs.com/magazine/aquarium-fish-the-eyes-have-it-a-review-of-eye-health-in-aquarium-fishes/

Great and thorough article Jay. I was a small animal vet and now help develop continuing education materials for human healthcare…funnily enough primarily in ophthalmology!

As for our clown friend, I do tend to agree that he isn’t exhibiting the typical blind behaviors (not acting like it’s night, still can’t find food, etc), but where the diagnostic algorithm breaks down for him is the lack of any other symptoms beyond an apparent loss of vision. Cornea and lens clear as far as I can tell, no lethargy or moribund behavior, no signs of respiratory distress, no skin lesions or apparent scale issues, etc. I just checked on him now and no new symptoms. As anyone would, I wish I could do something proactive to see if it would help, but lacking any obvious signs of bacterial/fungal/parasitic, I don’t have a good starting point.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Great and thorough article Jay. I was a small animal vet and now help develop continuing education materials for human healthcare…funnily enough primarily in ophthalmology!

As for our clown friend, I do tend to agree that he isn’t exhibiting the typical blind behaviors (not acting like it’s night, still can’t find food, etc), but where the diagnostic algorithm breaks down for him is the lack of any other symptoms beyond an apparent loss of vision. Cornea and lens clear as far as I can tell, no lethargy or moribund behavior, no signs of respiratory distress, no skin lesions or apparent scale issues, etc. I just checked on him now and no new symptoms. As anyone would, I wish I could do something proactive to see if it would help, but lacking any obvious signs of bacterial/fungal/parasitic, I don’t have a good starting point.

Yes, it does sound like that the fish is truly blind. I know people who have taught their blind fish to feed from forceps. If that doesn’t work, I’d give the fish two weeks in case it spontaneously recovers (unlikely) and then consider euthanasia:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-euthanasia.979258/