Coming Back To The Hobby

[Adalius]

Hey gang!
I've had 2 previous reef tanks. My first was a 25 gallon tall (I know, horrible choice for a start, right?!) with a HOB skimmer and HOB filter. It did ok, made it two years, but nothing glorious to look at.

My second was a 30g Biocube that I took the lid off and put an AI Nano above it. It lasted about 4 years, but again, wasn't anything to really be amazed by. I had some luck keeping some basic corals, not a lot of growth but survival, which was a solid step. I tore this tank down and sold it when we decided to buy and remodel a new house. When we did, I spent a year remodeling with no time for reefkeeping so the hobby sort of floated to the back of my mind.

I used to spend a lot of time on Captive Reefs and Reef Central, but I figured this time around I'd hang my hat here and see what this forum has to offer.

Since the old tanks, it's been about 8 years or so and I've finished the remodel, moved into the bigger house, and our dog passed away just a few weeks ago. The wife is pretty adamant we can't get another dog (since we do travel somewhat regularly) but she's allowing me to get a reef tank again in exchange for buying her a non-dog-drool covered couch.

My plan is to put in a Red Sea Peninsula 650 Deluxe to separate the living room from the dining room (it would block about 1/2 the width of the room). I'm waiting on my engineer buddy to get back to me if the floor load is ok, but it's basically directly over the main steel beam support in the basement, butting up against an exterior wall, and spanning multiple 2x10 joists as they approach the steel beam, so I'm feeling confident he will say it's okay.

While I wait I've been working out the details. Since it comes with 4 AI Hydra 26's, the lighting is covered. The unit also suggests 1850 gph for the return pump. Right now my plans include:
(1) COR-20 Return Pump
(2) Vortec MP10WQD Pumps
(1) Finnex 300W Titanium Heater
(1) Reef Octopus 200INT 8" Skimmer
(1) Neptune Apex
(1) Neptune DOS (To perform continuous small volume waterchanges)

I will be buying some other 'spare' stuff to act as back-ups in case anything major fails (spare pump, heater, etc).

I also plan on incorporating the Neptune Auto Topoff Kit into my salt mixing station with poly tubs for mixing so the DOS can pull from that. I'll be buying a cheap heater and pump to put in the mixed salt tub to keep it warm and agitated (although, is the heat really necessary if it's dosing so slowly into the main pump that it won't cause temperature swings?)

Then I plan on adding in the Neptune Flow Monitoring Kit and a Leak Detection Kit. I'm a tech guy, I like being able to keep an eye on a lot of 'things that can go wrong' remotely.

The system is fed off of well water that tests clean but I'll likely be putting a 5 or 6 stage RO/DI just to cover my butt. I'll be running the RO/DI into a large poly tank in the basement, and then another poly tank which will house the mixed salt water to feed the DOS as mentioned above. I'm figuring the DOS will need to deal with about 8' of head at most, and Terence from Neptune posted that it's good for about 12' of head so that should be fine.

I will probably be using Reef Saver dry rock since it looks cool how well it 'snaps' together without as much drilling/sawing/fabricating as some of the old rock I dealt with. Then I'll be adding either Original Grade Ocean Direct or Special Grade Arag-Alive. I do plan on having at least one sand sifting goby so I want to try to keep grain sizes that they can process. I also plan on running chaeto in the fuge with an undetermined light for that.

Lastly, since my last tenure in the hobby, I've been reading a lot and I see a whole lot has changed, like nitrates/phosphate not being as evil as they once were (no more shooting for absolute 0 always), and when I was getting out last time deep sand beds (DSBs) were the big debate, which from what I see the debate was lost and 1" or so is considered a 'safe' depth now.

My questions to you, the reefing community are:
1) Does my build look reasonable or is there anything on that list that is sketchy or a known crappy item?
2) Is there anything else I'm missing in terms of equipment?
3) Is there any other 'big' changes in the guidelines for reef keeping that I might be missing or glossing over from the last 10 years? I've been reading but forums put out about 2,000 pages of new information daily so it's hard to keep up.
4) Any other suggestions?

Any help/direction is always appreciated.

 

[Big G]

Consider adding a couple of QTs into your plan: one for corals & inverts, and one for fish. Lots of issues with the supply chain. Protect your peace of mind. QT everything.

Welcome to R2R!

 

[Adalius]

Consider adding a couple of QTs into your plan: one for corals & inverts, and one for fish. Lots of issues with the supply chain. Protect your peace of mind. QT everything.

Welcome to R2R!

Yea. I forgot to mention that. Everything will be going through QT in some small tanks in the basement (for ease of moving/dumping water mainly).

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

@Adalius, so sorry to hear of your doggo's passing. Welcome back to the hobby by the way. What do you plan on keeping in term of coral. You may want to upgrade the MP10's to MP40's or even 60's. Food for thought.

 

[Adalius]

@Adalius, so sorry to hear of your doggo's passing. Welcome back to the hobby by the way. What do you plan on keeping in term of coral. You may want to upgrade the MP10's to MP40's or even 60's. Food for thought.

Thanks! He was the best pupper. I plan on keeping a lot of the "beginner" stuff until I get back in the swing of things so xenia, star polyps, mushrooms, maybe some colt and fox. Wife and I both like the more "billowy" corals. I also like trumpet and hammer corals. My concern with the mp40s is too much flow, having never run them I didn't want to go big and then end up running them at 20% all the time or something. Seems like it would be a waste of money. But if you think they wont overpower the tank then I certainly can adjust my plans.

 

[Peanut]

Thanks! He was the best pupper. I plan on keeping a lot of the "beginner" stuff until I get back in the swing of things so xenia, star polyps, mushrooms, maybe some colt and fox. Wife and I both like the more "billowy" corals. I also like trumpet and hammer corals. My concern with the mp40s is too much flow, having never run them I didn't want to go big and then end up running them at 20% all the time or something. Seems like it would be a waste of money. But if you think they wont overpower the tank then I certainly can adjust my plans.

get the mp40s, its not too much flow, and you can always turn them down.

also...you don't really have a choice. the mp10 is rated for max glass thickness of 3/8"...the tank you are looking at is 3/4" which is the max thickness for the MP40

 

[Adalius]

get the mp40s, its not too much flow, and you can always turn them down.

also...you don't really have a choice. the mp10 is rated for max glass thickness of 3/8"...the tank you are looking at is 3/4" which is the max thickness for the MP40

Ah true. I forgot about that detail.

 

[Peanut]

(1) Neptune DOS (To perform continuous small volume waterchanges)

what's your plan for this?

 

[Adalius]

what's your plan for this?

Similar to some of the layouts on various forums and BRSTv. One head pulls water from the return chamber of the sump and dumps it, the other head pulls an equal amount of premixed salt water from the poly tank and dumps it into the sump by the return pump. Apex uses photoeyes to stop the cycle if the premixed is low on volume so it doesnt dump water it cant replace. So rather than doing big volume changes every week or two, it constantly does small amounts like 2 gallons over the course of the whole day.

 

[Adalius]

Similar to some of the layouts on various forums and BRSTv. One head pulls water from the return chamber of the sump and dumps it, the other head pulls an equal amount of premixed salt water from the poly tank and dumps it into the sump by the return pump. Apex uses photoeyes to stop the cycle if the premixed is low on volume so it doesnt dump water it cant replace. So rather than doing big volume changes every week or two, it constantly does small amounts like 2 gallons over the course of the whole day.

Er I didnt mean return for both ends. Basically one pulls at the sump inlet and the other dumps into the sump outlet. So it isnt pulling the new stuff right out.

 

[Peanut]

Er I didnt mean return for both ends. Basically one pulls at the sump inlet and the other dumps into the sump outlet. So it isnt pulling the new stuff right out.

what are you going to keep in the tank? mostly fish? reef?

I know this might sound crazy, but have you considered not doing water changes.

I have a 200 gal system and have not changed water in several years. I visited an 1100 gal system this weekend that has not done a water change in 2+ years.

if you're going with a reef and you really want the dos, then use it to dose.

 

[Adalius]

what are you going to keep in the tank? mostly fish? reef?

I know this might sound crazy, but have you considered not doing water changes.

I have a 200 gal system and have not changed water in several years. I visited an 1100 gal system this weekend that has not done a water change in 2+ years.

if you're going with a reef and you really want the dos, then use it to dose.

Reef tank. My understanding from all the reading I've been doing is that while no water changes is a solid goal, it's hard to do until the tank establishes itself and gets into balance. So my plan was small continuous changes until it matures and then slowly try to wean it off.

 

[Peanut]

don't get me wrong, I am in no way saying what you are planning to do wont work. It will.

I just hate water changes. I hate making water. I hate changing water. I hate buckets. lol

the bottom line is no matter if your tank is 10 days old or 10 years old, at the end of the nitrogen cycle you need nutrient export or there will be an abundance of algae. Your method will be the water change. I think you can do it from day one with the right equipment. If you're interested, do some research on bio-denitrators. I use an ethanol based denitrator on my tank. The tank I visited this weekend uses a methanol based denitrator. good stuff.

 

[Tankzombie]

You can also check out BRS on YouTube lots of great stuff on there especially 52weeks of reefing, also they just did an episode on water changes.

 

[Captain Quint]

Welcome to R2R

 

[Adalius]

You can also check out BRS on YouTube lots of great stuff on there especially 52weeks of reefing, also they just did an episode on water changes.

Yep thats (52 weeks) part or what is getting me back in. I also listen to their pod cast (and a few others) on my way to/from work every day.

 

[Adalius]

don't get me wrong, I am in no way saying what you are planning to do wont work. It will.

I just hate water changes. I hate making water. I hate changing water. I hate buckets. lol

the bottom line is no matter if your tank is 10 days old or 10 years old, at the end of the nitrogen cycle you need nutrient export or there will be an abundance of algae. Your method will be the water change. I think you can do it from day one with the right equipment. If you're interested, do some research on bio-denitrators. I use an ethanol based denitrator on my tank. The tank I visited this weekend uses a methanol based denitrator. good stuff.

I guess, for me personally, that sounds interesting and something I'd like to educate myself on, just not sure if I want to take the plunge on some completely new (to me) system/hardware or stick with the tried and true water changes until I get my feet under me. It also looks like it would require either more cabinet space, or more plumbing in the basement (the tank is above a finished basement, so I have to run 20' horizontally above the drop ceiling to get to the utility side with any plumbing), so I just don't think I want to go that route yet. Thanks for telling me about it though, it certainly looks like the kind of thing I could read about and geek out on.

 

[Adalius]

the bottom line is no matter if your tank is 10 days old or 10 years old, at the end of the nitrogen cycle you need nutrient export or there will be an abundance of algae. Your method will be the water change. I think you can do it from day one with the right equipment. If you're interested, do some research on bio-denitrators. I use an ethanol based denitrator on my tank. The tank I visited this weekend uses a methanol based denitrator. good stuff.

Ok. My curiosity got piqued. I checked out the big thread on ReefCentral, which I see you chimed in on towards the end, and learned a ton. Only question I have is can I start cycling this thing *while* the tank is cycling?

 

[Peanut]

Ok. My curiosity got piqued. I checked out the big thread on ReefCentral, which I see you chimed in on towards the end, and learned a ton. Only question I have is can I start cycling this thing *while* the tank is cycling?

you can, but you will need a source of no3 to keep it alive until your tank produces enough on its own. you want a steady amount otherwise you will spend a crazy amount of time adjusting dosages and cycle times until you have a good amount being produced.

I have not yet switch to that reefcentral unit yet. I was having trouble with my ethanol version which I had been running for years previously and I thought it was going to be too much trouble to fix , which is why I built the reefcentral version. I'm still running the ethanol version which I originally purchased here https://aquaripure.com/ I am sure you could build your own very easily if your up to it. I think there's even a thread on here where someone did. I would wait till the tank is fully cycled, but at that point you can just add the ethanol version and it will grow on its own with the load.

As far as switching, I'm in a similar situation to a new tank. I have a methanol version built, but I have no no3. so for now, it's just sitting there empty.

 

[Adalius]

you can, but you will need a source of no3 to keep it alive until your tank produces enough on its own. you want a steady amount otherwise you will spend a crazy amount of time adjusting dosages and cycle times until you have a good amount being produced.

I have not yet switch to that reefcentral unit yet. I was having trouble with my ethanol version which I had been running for years previously and I thought it was going to be too much trouble to fix , which is why I built the reefcentral version. I'm still running the ethanol version which I originally purchased here https://aquaripure.com/ I am sure you could build your own very easily if your up to it. I think there's even a thread on here where someone did. I would wait till the tank is fully cycled, but at that point you can just add the ethanol version and it will grow on its own with the load.

As far as switching, I'm in a similar situation to a new tank. I have a methanol version built, but I have no no3. so for now, it's just sitting there empty.

I was going to do the 'cocktail shrimp' cycle where you just toss a few in to decay, so I figured that would feed ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate once the bacteria were fully seeded/established, and then once there was a nitrate spike showing on the tests I could start the cycle of the denitrifier, in theory. So long as I continue to ensure there's enough stuff breaking down to feed the bacteria to continue to produce NO3.

My concern would be if there's enough nitrate to fully support the bacteria in the denitrifier in that case though. I would almost think I'm better off getting the tank at least mostly stocked before cycling it just so there's a guaranteed abundance of NO3?