Considering saltwater... on a budget

[Magnapinna]

Hi all,

I recently lost my ~10yo axolotl and am left with a 40 breeder I plan to overhaul. Not totally decided yet, but saltwater really interests me. I have successfully kept freshwater for the past decade but have no experience with marine. I understand it is much more difficult and expensive, so I may be too ambitious here --- please do tell me if I should just avoid saltwater. I have some limitations but would love to make it work if possible.

Most importantly, I'm on a budget. It's flexible, and since I already have the tank and stand, that frees up money for other expenses. I have college to pay for though, so I want to save as much money as I can. Not a huge deal to me as even if I go freshwater, I'll still be doing some big spending on all-new equipment. I don't mind DIY projects or secondhand purchases where possible.

I also don't really want to install a sump right now. While I'm not opposed to the idea, it seems like a complicated and expensive undertaking. The tank had a "do not drill" sticker at the time of purchase, and my understanding is HOB overflows are A. costly and B. risky. My cabinet has plenty of room for a sump, and I would like to install one eventually, but not right away (unless it's absolutely necessary). I've read 40bs can do okay sumpless and I feel skipping it for now would allow me to spend more on other things, particularly an RO/DI unit.

I would love some input on whether what I want to do here is feasible, if possible. I don't mind the aesthetic drawbacks of a sumpless tank, nor some extra maintenance --- my freshwater tanks are demanding and I'm used to regular cleaning.

If doable, what should my filtration look like? I plan on an HOB skimmer, ideally dry, but if it does back up my floors have seen worse. I expect ~50lbs live rock. I can invest in a canister or a couple HOB power filters depending on which is better. Beyond that, I'm clueless and need some guidance.

Thanks!
Dan

 

[Spare time]

I can definitely help. Can you give me a budget range? Ideal and max?

 

[Spare time]

PS a sump with an overflow box and a baffle kit is really really easy to do and is wonderful to have.

 

[Magnapinna]

PS a sump with an overflow box and a baffle kit is really really easy to do and is wonderful to have.

Maybe (probably) I'm missing something, but it seems like an enormous amount of additional hardware and setup. The overflow box alone is $200 and the more crap I have to assemble, the more likely I am to do something wrong and flood my house. I also hear they're really loud --- I would honestly much prefer daily maintenance over constant noise. I am really apprehensive about the flood risk as well because that seems like a pretty common issue with HOB overflows, and I've seen a number of posts here recommending against them.

The cost is the big thing though. As of this moment, I just can't justify an extra several hundred dollars on equipment that's more convenience than necessity, especially when that equipment has a high chance of failure. I want to be able to afford my filtration first and foremost because I figure a sump can be added later. For the cost of just the overflow (maybe even less) I could get an RO/DI unit, which I would much rather have until I can comfortably afford a sump. If I really can't get away without one I'm just going to have to stick with fresh.

 

[Treehrtsme]

You can get an all in one kit for a 40b for about 150.

 

[CoastalTownLayabout]

If you’re happy to start out with run of the mill soft corals and a few fish you don’t need to spend a lot of money. Something like the XP Aqua Sumpless ATO, some decent live rock, a wave maker and an AI Blade will get you in the game and learning the ropes.

 

[19Mateo83]

For starters you could try a fish only with live rock system (FOWLR). It would be as simple as possible to use good old over the back filters (same ones used for freshwater) for your mechanical filtration and the sand and live rock for the chemical filtration. You could use freshwater lighting until you decide if want corals, then you would have to upgrade. The must haves are a refractometer, good NON API test kits for phosphates and Nitrates, access to rodi/distilled water (can buy a cheap rodi unit?) and maybe seachem ammonia badge to get you through the cycle. And of course salt…OH!… and patients.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Hi all,

I recently lost my ~10yo axolotl and am left with a 40 breeder I plan to overhaul. Not totally decided yet, but saltwater really interests me. I have successfully kept freshwater for the past decade but have no experience with marine. I understand it is much more difficult and expensive, so I may be too ambitious here --- please do tell me if I should just avoid saltwater. I have some limitations but would love to make it work if possible.

Most importantly, I'm on a budget. It's flexible, and since I already have the tank and stand, that frees up money for other expenses. I have college to pay for though, so I want to save as much money as I can. Not a huge deal to me as even if I go freshwater, I'll still be doing some big spending on all-new equipment. I don't mind DIY projects or secondhand purchases where possible.

I also don't really want to install a sump right now. While I'm not opposed to the idea, it seems like a complicated and expensive undertaking. The tank had a "do not drill" sticker at the time of purchase, and my understanding is HOB overflows are A. costly and B. risky. My cabinet has plenty of room for a sump, and I would like to install one eventually, but not right away (unless it's absolutely necessary). I've read 40bs can do okay sumpless and I feel skipping it for now would allow me to spend more on other things, particularly an RO/DI unit.

I would love some input on whether what I want to do here is feasible, if possible. I don't mind the aesthetic drawbacks of a sumpless tank, nor some extra maintenance --- my freshwater tanks are demanding and I'm used to regular cleaning.

If doable, what should my filtration look like? I plan on an HOB skimmer, ideally dry, but if it does back up my floors have seen worse. I expect ~50lbs live rock. I can invest in a canister or a couple HOB power filters depending on which is better. Beyond that, I'm clueless and need some guidance.

Thanks!
Dan

Here's an honest reply.

You have college coming up, and you're already on a budget.

Test kits alone are going to cost you around $200 before you even get your hands wet.

Wait until later, when you have money and time to invest in what is for most folks a very expensive hobby that takes up a lot of time.

You have other priorities right now.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

First of all, Welcome to R2R!
It is possible to create a sump-less, even filterless marine tank. Just with the proper flow and Real from the ocean live rock and water changes. It might be a challenge for your first salt water tank, but you will learn what it takes, really fast. You can add a HOB protein skimmer and a AquaClear filter to make your life easier, but you can do it.
For inspiration you can check out:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXemjF1MZJhjshBeFdlU4ug

 

[AydenLincoln]

Here's an honest reply.

You have college coming up, and you're already on a budget.

Test kits alone are going to cost you around $200 before you even get your hands wet.

Wait until later, when you have money and time to invest in what is for most folks a very expensive hobby that takes up a lot of time.

You have other priorities right now.

Agreed! This hobby is expensive and I can tell you right now you will not be able to get everything you need new for under several hundred dollars! You can look into used setups but saltwater is not something that isn’t cheap and you rarely find good deals as people try and make their money back which doesn’t happen often. Realistically the minimum costs for setting up and getting fish in the tank no matter the size are over $300-$500 if you buy everything new and while used is cheaper it is still a very expensive hobby. While yes you can do this hobby cheaper. It’s still going to be expensive. To give you an idea. My 75 fowlr is what I consider a budget build compared to my other tanks which is not done. I spent $300 on a stand that was on sale, $115 on a 75 Aqueon tank on sale, $75 on a filter, $35 on a heater, $30 on powerheads, $60 on sand, over $300 on rock, and around $100 on two fish. In all aspects my setup is a simple saltwater setup and on the cheaper side for something new since it’s all HOB equipment. This is not including salt, a possible RODI unit, ATO, and other essentials like a refractometer either. You can always buy the saltwater too but you do have to continually buy it and for 40 gallons of buckets that’s a pain in the butt.

 

[Baka Mop]

From what I learned doing budget builds on most of my setups is to not skimp out on the essentials. I would look around the forum's marketplace for deals on lights, powerheads, and ro/di units. I recommend an ai blade grow/glow for lighting and an ai nero 3 or 5 for your powerhead. DEFINITELY get an ro/di unit. A 4 stage unit would be good, and you can upgrade it in the future.

Spend a little extra for a quality titanium heater for your size tank also. If you still have your old HOB filter, go ahead and use it. Any HOB filter should do fine. You don't need a skimmer or a sump for that size.

I would probably go for 30-40lbs of dry rock to start, and buy more later on if you feel that you need more. 30-40lbs of sand. I prefer live sand cause I don't have to rinse it and it gives my cycle a head start.

Also, GET AN ATO! Not having to top off the water every day is well worth the $70 for a decent optical ATO. Just use of one of those plastic seachem 5 gallon jugs you see in your LFS as your reservoir.

Another good piece of automation I discovered is using a smart power strip. You can then turn off individual equipments and add a timer or schedule to them. On my nano, I have everything connected to a smart power strip that I control through Alexa on my Echo speaker and I just say "Alexa, turn off the pumps" and all my pumps and wavemakers turn off to make feeding easier. It sure beats bending down and unplugging stuff to feed the fish or do water changes.

 

[CoastalTownLayabout]

My cheapest set up was at uni / college. 3ft tank, live rock, 2 x twin flouro fixtures - daylight / actinic and a pump feeding a DIY Carlson surge device. Grew softies and LPS well.

 

[Roatan Reef]

$4,000 later, I have a great 40B!!

I thought I could do it for $1500 to $2500...good Luck!

Maybe try a FOWLR Tank.

 

[Roatan Reef]

And also...your Budget will be a thing of comedy gold jerry...once you get full invested.

 

[Baka Mop]

$4,000 later, I have a great 40B!!

I thought I could do it for $1500 to $2500...good Luck!

Maybe try a FOWLR Tank.

I just spent 5k including shipping & installation on a new RSR 525 G2 with the skimmer, rollermat, pump, and heater. And that was with a 10% off sale on everything. While it was coming, I also bought 2 Radion XR15s, the rail mount, 2 MP40s, dry rocks, sand, and some other small accessories. I don't even want to look at my bank account right now... If I can't see it, it can't hurt me.

 

[klc]

Here's the deal, you CAN maintain a simple saltwater tank with NO sump and no other filtration AT ALL. You will need 30 lbs of REAL live rock, a pump of some kind to move water around, a heater and a light source. You can keep just about any type of soft coral you desire with this. Keep it simple.

 

[Widdlyscudds]

I successfully keep lps, sps, and sofites with a HOB filter (aquaclear 50), and a HOB protein skimmer, the type of filtration you decide to go with, ie a sump or a HOB has nothing to do with what type of corals you can keep, your water parameters lighting and flow dictate that. That being said if I could I would 100% have a sump they just make life easier.

 

[Nano_Man]

Here's the deal, you CAN maintain a simple saltwater tank with NO sump and no other filtration AT ALL. You will need 30 lbs of REAL live rock, a pump of some kind to move water around, a heater and a light source. You can keep just about any type of soft coral you desire with this. Keep it simple.

Yep I have done this and it works. Live rock power heads pointing to rock . If a Nono tank you don’t need a skimmer but if larger tanks use a skimmer. I think years ago it was called Berlin method could be wrong with the name but something rings a bell lol

 

[Dan_P]

Hi all,

I recently lost my ~10yo axolotl and am left with a 40 breeder I plan to overhaul. Not totally decided yet, but saltwater really interests me. I have successfully kept freshwater for the past decade but have no experience with marine. I understand it is much more difficult and expensive, so I may be too ambitious here --- please do tell me if I should just avoid saltwater. I have some limitations but would love to make it work if possible.

Most importantly, I'm on a budget. It's flexible, and since I already have the tank and stand, that frees up money for other expenses. I have college to pay for though, so I want to save as much money as I can. Not a huge deal to me as even if I go freshwater, I'll still be doing some big spending on all-new equipment. I don't mind DIY projects or secondhand purchases where possible.

I also don't really want to install a sump right now. While I'm not opposed to the idea, it seems like a complicated and expensive undertaking. The tank had a "do not drill" sticker at the time of purchase, and my understanding is HOB overflows are A. costly and B. risky. My cabinet has plenty of room for a sump, and I would like to install one eventually, but not right away (unless it's absolutely necessary). I've read 40bs can do okay sumpless and I feel skipping it for now would allow me to spend more on other things, particularly an RO/DI unit.

I would love some input on whether what I want to do here is feasible, if possible. I don't mind the aesthetic drawbacks of a sumpless tank, nor some extra maintenance --- my freshwater tanks are demanding and I'm used to regular cleaning.

If doable, what should my filtration look like? I plan on an HOB skimmer, ideally dry, but if it does back up my floors have seen worse. I expect ~50lbs live rock. I can invest in a canister or a couple HOB power filters depending on which is better. Beyond that, I'm clueless and need some guidance.

Thanks!
Dan

Overstocking and automation should be avoided to do a budget saltwater aquarium. Avoiding automation cost should be obvious.

Today’s saltwater aquarium standard is to overstock the system and then struggle to purify the water by buying water purification equipment and miracle additives. There is no magic here. An aquarium can deal with all waste accumulation except maybe PO4 and the compounds that color the water yellow when it is not overstocked.

 

[C4ctus99]

To start out fish only with live rock (fowlr):

wave maker
HOB filter
Cover w/ light (or a cover and find someone with a used t5 fixture for a good price)
Heater
Live rock (or dry)
Sand
Salifert or Red Sea test kits (ammonia and nitrate)
RO/DI
Refractometer (a good one, I went cheap and it works, but if I was doing it over I’d get a good one to start)
Bottled back (microbactr 7 or 9, dr time, or I have used seachem stability)(only if you are skipping the cycle and putting fish in after the first week)

Later on, a skimmer would be useful and I made a hob refugium too.

Good food is essential for healthy fish, I’m still learning how to get them to eat it though

And stay away from fresh water stuff if possible

I think all told, I did all that with my original 20g long for under $500, but closer to $300… if I remember correctly. I made a mistake buying the API test kits first, go with Red Sea or Salifert for budget and to start you only need amonia and nitrate, I’ve never read nitrites on my tank (ever ) but other people have, but Jay says insalt water nitrites are not toxic unless crazy high.

edit: abov price included tank