Constant High Alkalinity and Phosphate

[uscggirl]

Hello everyone. I have a situation where my Alkalinity and Phosphate stay high. I’ve tried to read all the posts having anything to do with Alkalinity, but it seems most people want to keep it raised, while I’d like to get it lower. I’ve tried dosing some vinegar, and that helped for a day, but it went way up again. From 11.8 to 13.9 in under 16 hours. My Salinity and Ph stay stable at 1.025 and 7.8 respectively. I’d like to increase Ph, but want to get the Alkalinity sorted first. I am new to saltwater and spent a few years with freshwater. I’m only running a 10 gallon tank with HOB and UV filter for now while I learn and make plans for tank size and equipment. Other parameters are pretty much on target with Calcium finally rising from 348 on April 6, to 480 today. I’ve read I need to stop dosing, but I haven’t dosed anything. I do have some Phosguard in my HOB in hopes it will lower Phosphate. Not really helping though. Any ideas or suggestions are most welcome! Stock is currently 2 clowns, 3 yellow damsels, 1 blue damsel, and emerald crab If that helps. I’ve been doing a two gallon water change every other day.

 

[dvgyfresh]

If nitrate are “low” this could be causing yr phosphate to not be depleted, the alk thing is super weird only time something similar happend to me (18 dkh) was because I used instant ocean with tap water

 

[uscggirl]

Seams so weird to have high alk . With the source water being 7.7

you haven’t added or dosed anything to the tank other than water changes ?

A couple weeks ago my Calcium was very low, so I thought I’d add the Seachem Reef Fusion 1, which says it adds Calcium. I didn’t add any Reef Fusion 2 because it said in adds Alkalinity, and my Alkalinity was already high. At that point my Calcium was 369 and my Alkalinity was 20. My Phosphates were 0.08, which was better than they are now! So that’s when I added the Reef Fusion 1. I also added a half capful of Brightwell’s Coraline Accelerator. Once I added those I turned off the filter and UV sterilizer so they wouldn’t immediately get filtered out. I turned everything back on about five hours later, but unfortunately I awoke the next morning to a bacteria bloom. Other than those two additions almost three weeks ago, I haven’t dosed anything. I’m afraid I’ll really jack things up if I add anything else.

 

[uscggirl]

1200 MG is too low IMM.
1360 is min and I run 1410.
Up to 1500 is fine, it won’t hurt nothing.

I’d love to increase the Magnesium, but I’m worried about adding anything at this point. What’s the best way to increase the MG? A specific product?

 

[dvgyfresh]

A couple weeks ago my Calcium was very low, so I thought I’d add the Seachem Reef Fusion 1, which says it adds Calcium. I didn’t add any Reef Fusion 2 because it said in adds Alkalinity, and my Alkalinity was already high. At that point my Calcium was 369 and my Alkalinity was 20. My Phosphates were 0.08, which was better than they are now! So that’s when I added the Reef Fusion 1. I also added a half capful of Brightwell’s Coraline Accelerator. Once I added those I turned off the filter and UV sterilizer so they wouldn’t immediately get filtered out. I turned everything back on about five hours later, but unfortunately I awoke the next morning to a bacteria bloom. Other than those two additions almost three weeks ago, I haven’t dosed anything. I’m afraid I’ll really jack things up if I add anything else.

Coralline accel will increase alkalinity and calcium

 

[uscggirl]

If nitrate are “low” this could be causing yr phosphate to not be depleted, the alk thing is super weird only time something similar happend to me (18 dkh) was because I used instant ocean with tap water

Nitrates are definitely low and barely registering. I think my over feeding isn’t helping to fix that at all and only contributing to my problem. I’d dose nitrates, but not sure if that will mess me up in others ways.

 

[Dan_P]

That’s good to know. I’m confused though because I tested the replacement water and the Alk was 7.7. I figure if the buffer would interfere with the test, maybe it would there too? But I’m clearly not an expert, so who knows?

Aha, I think you have shown the buffer effect is not important.

 

[dvgyfresh]

Nitrates are definitely low and barely registering. I think my over feeding isn’t helping to fix that at all and only contributing to my problem. I’d dose nitrates, but not sure if that will mess me up in others ways.

I’ve had to dose neo nitro from brightwell , it’s good product only increases nitrate which will actually decrease phosphate because it seems yr ratio is off

 

[uscggirl]

So I posted yesterday’s pre and post water change numbers. Today, I tested again at 1445 with these results. Phosphate and Alkalinity had both increased during the night, and Calcium had dropped a bit.
Salinity - 1.027
Temp - 82.1
Ph - 7.7
Phosphate - 0.58
Alkalinity - 13.2
Calcium - 407
Magnesium - 1200
I then did another 30% water change, but didn’t retest knowing numbers will be lowered due to the dilution. I also cleared out leftover food in case that’s throwing things off. Added some RODI water to dilute the salinity as well. Still can’t figure what is increasing my Phosphates and Alkalinity.

 

[uscggirl]

I’ve had to dose neo nitro from brightwell , it’s good product only increases nitrate which will actually decrease phosphate because it seems yr ratio is off

Oh yeah! It’s definitely off! I’m terrified to dose anything and get another bacteria bloom, but may try the neo nitro and see if that will balance things out. I appreciate your suggestion!

 

[Hermie]

How long do you let new saltwater "mix" before doing a water change?

 

[uscggirl]

How long do you let new saltwater "mix" before doing a water change?

It’s all premixed in a four gallon jug from Nature’s Ocean. I drop a heater in it when I know I’ll be doing a water change, and when it’s heated up enough to not shock the fish with the temp change, I just shake it up a bit in case anything has settled or separated. I have RODI water to dilute if needed, but it’s just a RODI unit that goes to my refrigerator for fresh drinking water. Tap water here is awful!!

 

[uscggirl]

How long do you let new saltwater "mix" before doing a water change?

Coralline accel will increase alkalinity and calcium

The info on the accelerator is good to know! Maybe it’s still leaching out into the water from the rocks? I’m definitely picking up some neo nitro and trying that to get things back in balance.

 

[uscggirl]

Aha, I think you have shown the buffer effect is not important.

Although I can test the Alk and Phosphates in the tank and in the replacement water, I just wasn’t sure if the buffering properties in the replacement water would impact how Alkalinity and Phosphates are utilized once the replacement water is in the tank. Something definitely makes them increase in the tank. Maybe the low magnesium, or the lack of nitrates as has been suggested. I’ll try to increase those independently and see if either has an impact.

 

[Rmckoy]

A few things I’ve caught . First
Phosphates ...
if your nitrates are zero , there is no way phosphates can lower without any nitrates to support it . The way it was explained to me , to reduce one or the other , it needs the other to reduce together in a ratio let’s use 20:1 as a number
If one ( nitrates are zero ) they can’t lower anymore to pull phosphate down .

for nitrates .
I dosed esv bionic nitrate ( calcium nitrate )
Calculated the dose to increase 1ppm per day
And dosed for 5 days .
5ppm is a good low number , ideally I wanted closer to 10

there is a diy recipe for mag . Using epsom salt ( magnesium sulphate )

 

[uscggirl]

A few things I’ve caught . First
Phosphates ...
if your nitrates are zero , there is no way phosphates can lower without any nitrates to support it . The way it was explained to me , to reduce one or the other , it needs the other to reduce together in a ratio let’s use 20:1 as a number
If one ( nitrates are zero ) they can’t lower anymore to pull phosphate down .

for nitrates .
I dosed esv bionic nitrate ( calcium nitrate )
Calculated the dose to increase 1ppm per day
And dosed for 5 days .
5ppm is a good low number , ideally I wanted closer to 10

there is a diy recipe for mag . Using epsom salt ( magnesium sulphate )

Thank you for your guidance! I’m definitely trying to up my nitrates to see where things balance out, then getting after that magnesium... I appreciate your assistance and response!

 

[Dan_P]

Although I can test the Alk and Phosphates in the tank and in the replacement water, I just wasn’t sure if the buffering properties in the replacement water would impact how Alkalinity and Phosphates are utilized once the replacement water is in the tank. Something definitely makes them increase in the tank. Maybe the low magnesium, or the lack of nitrates as has been suggested. I’ll try to increase those independently and see if either has an impact.

I have occasionally read about increasing alkalinity in systems on this forum but the explanations are weak. Phosphate is a little easier to explain: food and rocks. Feeding the aquarium adds phosphate and aragonite rocks can release PO4.

I have not seen a link between high alkalinity and a low magnesium level.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My Alkalinity was up to 20 one day, which is when I dosed vinegar. I’d prefer to figure out the source however, so I don’t just treat the problem.

Vinegar is not even a treatment for high alk, so I'd suggest stopping that effort. It does not lower alk for more than a short period, then it all comes back as the vinegar is consumed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How do you replace evaporated water? Tap water? RO/DI?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Declining nitrate will boost alkalinity. A 50 ppm decline in nitrate (by consumption) will boost alk by 2.3 dKH.

 

[uscggirl]

I have occasionally read about increasing alkalinity in systems on this forum but the explanations are weak. Phosphate is a little easier to explain: food and rocks. Feeding the aquarium adds phosphate and aragonite rocks can release PO4.

I have not seen a link between high alkalinity and a low magnesium level.

The over feeding I was doing to try and increase Nitrates is definitely looking to be a culprit for the Phosphates so that has ended and I’ve cleaned up what I can find. I’ve blown around the rocks to get at the stuff that’s made it’s way there as well. Hopefully, other than what the rocks are releasing, I can start to get Phosphate under control. May try to dose a bit of Phos E from Brightwell also, since the Phosguard from Seachem in the filter hasn’t done much to help. Thank you for your assistance and insights! Onward Into the gales I go!