Convince me why All For Reef is worth it

[Acro Junky]

Alright title might be slightly mis leading but I need some advice.

I currently occupy the following:

Neptune DOS x3

- ESV Alk
- ESV Cal
- ESV Mag
- Kalk
- Nitrate
- Phosphate

I have seen that all for reef is very successful for reefers. I am curious about those that switched from 2/3 part to AFR.

Also those that switched from AFR back to 2/3 part.

Thinking about doing Kalk and AFR.

Curious to hear inputs.

 

[TikiGreg]

its not. I started using AFR at the recommended dosage for my 40b, 10ml a day and it spiked my mag over 1500 and killed a good amount of my snails

I just use carbo-calc now

 

[mmorrison55]

Put me in the AFR convert club.

I have big bottles of Brightwell reef code a and b as well as magnesion and they worked fine to keep my levels where I wanted them, but it was so much easier (and cheaper) switching to the AFR powder.

Once you figure out how much you need to dose to keep your alk in the range you want it and get your ca and mg dialed in the Afr just keeps all 3 in range.

I’ve got the AFR set up to automatically dose where the Brightwell, i was having to manually dose for adjustments.

 

[tripdad]

I was doing BRS three part and switched to AFR. It is working as well as anything I have tried. I have very little time for reefing so the simplicity is the big benefit for me. I dose manually so no dosers to care for either. Overall less time needed.

 

[winxp_man]

its not. I started using AFR at the recommended dosage for my 40b, 10ml a day and it spiked my mag over 1500 and killed a good amount of my snails

I just use carbo-calc now

You calculated something wrong. Many people here and everywhere use it. Including me. Have yet to have issues. I using with Aquawiz. It actually saved my butt! I was just doing weekly WC’s and didn’t check much parameter wise being for a while the WC’s where good enough. Then as I was adding more corals I saw the torches ticked off, and my three nems. I thought it was chem warfare. Nope it was low everything being I doubled my corals. I then slowly increased my ACM checking every day. Then did a check to see how much consumption was talkin place in 24h. I’m at 25-30 ml dosing a day now and if I post a pic of the tank you will be amazed.

Everything is happy as can be. But I went through BJ because of the crappy parameter swings.

 

[mmorrison55]

its not. I started using AFR at the recommended dosage for my 40b, 10ml a day and it spiked my mag over 1500 and killed a good amount of my snails

I just use carbo-calc now

@Randy Holmes-Farley

I didn’t think Afr could spike Your MG and it was not used to raise ca and mg but was relative to the alk uptake and dose, so unless( your alk jumped by a whole lot, like doubled or tripled, , I wouldn’t think your mg could “spike”.

RHF could speak better to this.

 

[exnisstech]

its not. I started using AFR at the recommended dosage for my 40b, 10ml a day and it spiked my mag over 1500 and killed a good amount of my snails

I just use carbo-calc now

What recommended dosage? Last I knew TM recommended dosing based on calcium which doesn't make sense to me or anyone else I know of that uses AFR. I dose based on alk consumption not x amount per gallon of water. No alk supplement I know of will work based on water volume. I'm not aware of an online calculator for AFR based on alk consumption. I calculate dosage using BRS calculator and select ESV alk supplement. Take the recommended amount and multiply it times 1.7 and that's the dose amount for AFR. Randy H Farley once stated ESV is 1.7 x stronger than AFR.
I can not comment on mag because I've never measured it, but I've only been in the hobby 10ish years. Maybe I'll feel the need to measure it some day.

OP I use ARF because it's an easy one and done and works. I've used kalk and ESV also. I still use ESV in one tank, AFR is my choice for my acro heavy SPS tank. Many use AFR+ kalk. Pretty much all the supplements work fine, just pick one.

AFR tank

6 years using nothing but kalk. 7200 ml a day dosed over 24 hrs.

ESV

 

[TikiGreg]

What recommended dosage? Last I knew TM recommended dosing based on calcium which doesn't make sense to me or anyone else I know of that uses AFR. I dose based on alk consumption not x amount per gallon of water. No alk supplement I know of will work based on water volume. I'm not aware of an online calculator for AFR based on alk consumption. I calculate dosage using BRS calculator and select ESV alk supplement. Take the recommended amount and multiply it times 1.7 and that's the dose amount for AFR. Randy H Farley once stated ESV is 1.7 x stronger than AFR.
I can not comment on mag because I've never measured it, but I've only been in the hobby 10ish years. Maybe I'll feel the need to measure it some day.

OP I use ARF because it's an easy one and done and works. I've used kalk and ESV also. I still use ESV in one tank, AFR is my choice for my acro heavy SPS tank. Many use AFR+ kalk. Pretty much all the supplements work fine, just pick one.

AFR tank

6 years using nothing but kalk. 7200 ml a day dosed over 24 hrs.

ESV

recommended starting dosage for my 40b was 10ml a day till you get it dialed in.i dosed for about a week hit 1500+ magnesium and paralyzed almost all my snails till they starved to death

 

[exnisstech]

recommended starting dosage for my 40b was 10ml a day till you get it dialed in.i dosed for about a week hit 1500+ magnesium and paralyzed almost all my snails till they starved to death

Where did the recommendation come from? TM states to dose based on calcium (which makes no sense to me) and they state to get alk and calcium to your target level using a 2 part supplement then start AFR. At least those were TM instructions when I started using it a few years ago. As I mentioned no supplement I'm aware of is dosed based on water volume, they are all calculated based on alk consumption.
Also hobby grade magnesium tests kits have been deemed inaccurate and recommendations from @Randy Holmes-Farley a very knowledgeable chemist I fully trust feels it is better to not even bother testing mag because of the inaccuracies of our available test kits.

RMM

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/just-say-no-to-magnesium-testing-rmm-is-born.1017528/

 

[TikiGreg]

Where did the recommendation come from? TM states to dose based on calcium (which makes no sense to me) and they state to get alk and calcium to your target level using a 2 part supplement then start AFR. At least those were TM instructions when I started using it a few years ago. As I mentioned no supplement I'm aware of is dosed based on water volume, they are all calculated based on alk consumption.
Also hobby grade magnesium tests kits have been deemed inaccurate and recommendations from @Randy Holmes-Farley a very knowledgeable chemist I fully trust feels it is better to not even bother testing mag because of the inaccuracies of our available test kits.

RMM

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/just-say-no-to-magnesium-testing-rmm-is-born.1017528/

https://www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com/?lang=en
"
Start with a daily dose of 5 ml of Tropic Marin® All-For-Reef per 100 liters (26 US-gal) of aquarium system volume. Increase the daily dosage weekly by 2.5 ml per 100 l (26 US-gal) aquarium volume until you reach constant alkalinity and calcium concentrations.

Once the dosage is established, and the system parameters are stable, measuring either calcium or alkalinity, on a regular basis will monitor your systems changes and needed dosage adjustments. The corresponding parameter only needs to be monitored periodically. We recommend using Calcium as the dosage regulator, as conventional test kits are more sensitive (or accurate) in measuring changes in the calcium concentration than changes of the alkalinity from Tropic Marin® All-For-Reef."

my 40b+sump is 50-55g so 10ml

 

[mcarroll]

Alright title might be slightly mis leading but I need some advice.

I currently occupy the following:

Neptune DOS x3

- ESV Alk
- ESV Cal
- ESV Mag
- Kalk
- Nitrate
- Phosphate

I have seen that all for reef is very successful for reefers. I am curious about those that switched from 2/3 part to AFR.

Also those that switched from AFR back to 2/3 part.

Thinking about doing Kalk and AFR.

Curious to hear inputs.

IMO it's just a better "all in one" product (than TM's BioCalcium and CarboCalc). "Better" meaning "more complete"....not necessarily better for anyone's tank per se. Also IMO you're already past using these products.

Are you looking to simplify, or why are you considering change in the first place?

 

[Acro Junky]

IMO it's just a better "all in one" product (than TM's BioCalcium and CarboCalc). "Better" meaning "more complete"....not necessarily better for anyone's tank per se. Also IMO you're already past using these products.

Are you looking to simplify, or why are you considering change in the first place?

It’s more about wanting to simply the amount of dosers I need.

I currently occupy three Neptune dos heads.

I think it would be easier to go from 3 to 1 plus I have seen dozens of amazing reefs using it.

 

[exnisstech]

https://www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com/?lang=en
"
Start with a daily dose of 5 ml of Tropic Marin® All-For-Reef per 100 liters (26 US-gal) of aquarium system volume. Increase the daily dosage weekly by 2.5 ml per 100 l (26 US-gal) aquarium volume until you reach constant alkalinity and calcium concentrations.

Once the dosage is established, and the system parameters are stable, measuring either calcium or alkalinity, on a regular basis will monitor your systems changes and needed dosage adjustments. The corresponding parameter only needs to be monitored periodically. We recommend using Calcium as the dosage regulator, as conventional test kits are more sensitive (or accurate) in measuring changes in the calcium concentration than changes of the alkalinity from Tropic Marin® All-For-Reef."

my 40b+sump is 50-55g so 10ml

Those instructions just don't make sense and do not work for most. Alk supplement has to be dosed based on consumption IME. I'm far from a expert but I've read enough information written by experts in chemistry and in reef keeping I haven't read of anyone recommending to dose AFR or any other alk & calcium supplement based on calcium to levels. I love AFR but I don't agree with the instructions. I'm glad I read a lot about the product and it's use before I switched. Otherwise l likely would have been disappointed and stopped using it.

I think if people follow Randy's advice AFR is great. But there are other methods that work and having choices is always good.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Alright title might be slightly mis leading but I need some advice.

I currently occupy the following:

Neptune DOS x3

- ESV Alk
- ESV Cal
- ESV Mag
- Kalk
- Nitrate
- Phosphate

I have seen that all for reef is very successful for reefers. I am curious about those that switched from 2/3 part to AFR.

Also those that switched from AFR back to 2/3 part.

Thinking about doing Kalk and AFR.

Curious to hear inputs.

It’s main, and perhaps only advantage over other methods is simplicity/convenience.

One also only need to measure alk to use it, as long as it’s not a no water change system.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

its not. I started using AFR at the recommended dosage for my 40b, 10ml a day and it spiked my mag over 1500 and killed a good amount of my snails

I just use carbo-calc now

Highly skeptical of that claim. Don’t see how it could possibly happen. Alk and calcium would skyrocket years before magnesium rose 200+ ppm.

 

[Acro Junky]

It’s main, and perhaps only advantage over other methods is simplicity/convenience.

One also only need to measure alk to use it, as long as it’s not a no water change system.

Thank you, that’s what I am thinking. I can always have ESV supplements in my back pocket for corrective dosing. But using it as a supplement to my kalk

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

recommended starting dosage for my 40b was 10ml a day till you get it dialed in.i dosed for about a week hit 1500+ magnesium and paralyzed almost all my snails till they starved to death

Not the correct cause and effect. Don’t know what, if anything, raised your magnesium, but it was not a weeks use of AFR.

Test error is very likely.

 

[Bartanto]

It’s guess it’s worth it for me based on sake of ease. Not lazy, just running around with my hair on fire - and I think it works great (but it’s the only thing I know). 144ml/day, 150 gal system, 2.5 yrs old.

 

[Acro Junky]

It’s guess it’s worth it for me based on sake of ease. Not lazy, just running around with my hair on fire - and I think it works great (but it’s the only thing I know). 144ml/day, 150 gal system, 2.5 yrs old.

BEAUTIFUL TANK!

Thank you for the input

 

[areefer01]

Not the correct cause and effect. Don’t know what, if anything, raised your magnesium, but it was not a weeks use of AFR.

Test error is very likely.

It is the internet, we rarely admit user error.