Convince my sons to go bare bottom!

[NC AL]

Like the title states, convince my sons to go bare bottom on their reef tanks. My oldest son(14) has a 13.5 gallon tank and my youngest(13) has a 20 gallon. Both have been running successfully for around a year or longer. Both struggle with algae issues, but nothing terrible though. It is my belief that a bare bottom tank will help them control excess nutrients and lead to an overall nicer looking tank. I feel the established rock and chamber media at this point is sufficient to maintain any biological processes.

My kids prefer the look of the tanks with sand even though it make the maintenance harder. However my oldest has said he would consider if he could have the floor covered with coral of some sort that would not easily overtake the smaller aquarium.

Please show me some smaller bare bottom tanks to possibly inspire them and move them in that direction! Bonus points if it is a Fluval 13.5g or IM Nuvo 20g, or coral covered bottoms.

 

[bernster1]

Like the title states, convince my sons to go bare bottom on their reef tanks. My oldest son(14) has a 13.5 gallon tank and my youngest(13) has a 20 gallon. Both have been running successfully for around a year or longer. Both struggle with algae issues, but nothing terrible though. It is my belief that a bare bottom tank will help them control excess nutrients and lead to an overall nicer looking tank. I feel the established rock and chamber media at this point is sufficient to maintain any biological processes.

My kids prefer the look of the tanks with sand even though it make the maintenance harder. However my oldest has said he would consider if he could have the floor covered with coral of some sort that would not easily overtake the smaller aquarium.

Please show me some smaller bare bottom tanks to possibly inspire them and move them in that direction! Bonus points if it is a Fluval 13.5g or IM Nuvo 20g, or coral covered bottoms.

Can't be of much help sorry. I've started from a 20 gal. and I am now up to a 250 gal. I am a fan of a sand substrate as most of my fish are required to have a 2-6 inch. I will admit there is a little more of work with a substrate, but I believe the benefits are worth it.

 

[Science/G]

I love the flow down low. Beige acrylic sheet bottom.

 

[56longroof]

Unfortunately I can't help you. I run a DSB. The idea that sand causes algea is unwarranted. My sand is free of algea and detritus. It just takes a good clean up crew and alot of flow across the substrate.

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

You can still have algae issues even with bare bottom. It is about finding balance. Bare bottom can be easier to clean. Sand looks better. May just need more cleanup crew/sand sifters.

 

[JumboShrimp]

The last 20-gallon I started I committed myself to the idea of going bare bottom. I stared at it (with water and rock) for about 23 hours and 59 minutes before adding sand. (I just couldn't handle it, mentally!). Lol. ;)

 

[ReefQuestCorals]

Here's my thoughts

Sand isn't much maintenance or any at all, large crush coral sure you could see a lot of detritus build over time which would have to be siphoned out. I think you have to get to the route cause of the algae if it is an issue.

Remember all healthy tanks will have some algae as well, depending on the amount really depends on the amount of nutrients in the system and how your exporting the nutrients. My 29g nano cube has small amounts of hair algae in spots which the clean up crew handle, and on the rare occasion I remove manually.

Also want to add, it is possible to strip the tanks of nutrients if not careful. Could lead down a long road of trying to combat a different nutrient issue with how small the tanks are.

 

[backbayreef]

All my tanks are bare bottom except the recent 25gal (DSB). None of them have algae problem though. I think you should try to convince your sons to get more CUC and perhaps lower the photo period? What are N&P and feeding schedule?

Anyway, I can’t really help much since I’ve been unsuccessful to convince my girlfriend to go bare bottom for years now…She doesn’t have a tank though.

Good luck!

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

The last 20-gallon I started I committed myself to the idea of going bare bottom. I stared at it (with water and rock) for about 23 hours and 59 minutes before adding sand. (I just couldn't handle it, mentally!). Lol. ;)

I have been bare bottom for many years. Tried adding sand a few times and always caused issues a few weeks in. Hopefully I get it this time. But bare bottom is easier to keep clean. It has pros and cons just like everything. Hopefully they can figure it out lol.

 

[edsbeaker]

I’m not much help either since I’m not a fan of bare bottom. If you use a good CUC there is no other maintenance needed.

 

[NC AL]

Unfortunately I can't help you. I run a DSB. The idea that sand causes algea is unwarranted. My sand is free of algea and detritus. It just takes a good clean up crew and alot of flow across the substrate.

I don't think sand causes algae. Its all about nutrient import compared to export. In my opinion, a bare bottom tank allows for detritus to stay in the water column better, which allows for better nutrient export through the filter system. That's all. I am a believer in big clean up crew guy, but some of that is just nutrient recycling.

You can still have algae issues even with bare bottom. It is about finding balance. Bare bottom can be easier to clean. Sand looks better. May just need more cleanup crew/sand sifters.

I completely agree with you with the first part. The aesthetics of sand to me is not that much better to me.

I have been bare bottom for many years. Tried adding sand a few times and always caused issues a few weeks in. Hopefully I get it this time. But bare bottom is easier to keep clean. It has pros and cons just like everything. Hopefully they can figure it out lol.

Absolutely, and for teenaged kids ease of maintenance is a huge plus!

 

[NC AL]

I love the flow down low. Beige acrylic sheet bottom.
View attachment 4126382

I will look into this. They may go for this. Did you seal in or just lay it in?

 

[Science/G]

I will look into this. They may go for this. Did you seal in or just lay it in?

Silicone to the bottom

 

[NC AL]

I know going bare bottom in their tanks will not be a quick fix-all. I have a 5 gallon and a 65 gallon tank. Both originally started with substrate. Once converting them to bare bottom the cleanliness and ease of maintenance increased drastically!

Both my son's tanks are dealing with excessive algae. Nothing tank crashing, but enough to take some of the enjoyment out of it for them. They have to every week brush rock/syphon, vacuum sand, etc. They do weekly 10-15% water changes using ro/di water. After a few days it just doesn't look as good. One of the best ways to eliminate excessive algae is with herbivorous fish. However in smaller tanks, there really aren't any good long term viable fish.

My oldest son has the evo 13.5. For over a year his tank was pristine. After about 16 months with honestly NO CHANGE in feeding, lighting, flow, stocking, anything...he started developing hair algae. Now it is excessive and really detracting from the look of his tank. The only thing I can think of is that phosphates have built up to the point they are feeding the algae. We test regularly, but these readings are only what is left over after the algae consumes what it does. He has done such an excellent job maintaining a thriving little reef tank, I hate that he is not proud of how it looks.

My youngest has a IM NUVO 20 after upgrading from a not so successful attempt in his evo. He absolutely loves the hobby, so anything I can do (he has to do ALL maintenance) to make it more enjoyable I want to pursue.

 

[backbayreef]

Can you provide water params and pictures? It’s hard to visualize and make recommendations. I’ve beaten these before without any issues. Except my first SPS tank, all subsequent tanks started with some/all live rocks. In fact, I started a 25gal last month with LR and sand - no algae/no ugly stage.

If all else failed, I would check the source water. When was the last time you (they) replaced the RODI membranes/filter cartridges? Hope they’re not using tap water to replenish?

I usually just test these 3 things: alk, nitrate, phosphate. In my case, phosphate is a little high so I just dosed PhosphateRx to knock it down. I run my nano close to 0.03.

Edit: equally for nitrate, under 30ppm.

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

I know going bare bottom in their tanks will not be a quick fix-all. I have a 5 gallon and a 65 gallon tank. Both originally started with substrate. Once converting them to bare bottom the cleanliness and ease of maintenance increased drastically!

Both my son's tanks are dealing with excessive algae. Nothing tank crashing, but enough to take some of the enjoyment out of it for them. They have to every week brush rock/syphon, vacuum sand, etc. They do weekly 10-15% water changes using ro/di water. After a few days it just doesn't look as good. One of the best ways to eliminate excessive algae is with herbivorous fish. However in smaller tanks, there really aren't any good long term viable fish.

My oldest son has the evo 13.5. For over a year his tank was pristine. After about 16 months with honestly NO CHANGE in feeding, lighting, flow, stocking, anything...he started developing hair algae. Now it is excessive and really detracting from the look of his tank. The only thing I can think of is that phosphates have built up to the point they are feeding the algae. We test regularly, but these readings are only what is left over after the algae consumes what it does. He has done such an excellent job maintaining a thriving little reef tank, I hate that he is not proud of how it looks.

My youngest has a IM NUVO 20 after upgrading from a not so successful attempt in his evo. He absolutely loves the hobby, so anything I can do (he has to do ALL maintenance) to make it more enjoyable I want to pursue.

I noticed the 10 to 15 percent water changes but said using RO/DI. I assume you make fresh salt with this and not just putting in straight RO/DI to top off for water change.

What is you invert and fish stock list for both tanks. Include all inverts and how many. As removing the sand may correct the issue, but it may not actually address why. Also list corals and what, how often and amount you feed.

 

[NC AL]

Can you provide water params and pictures? It’s hard to visualize and make recommendations. I’ve beaten these before without any issues. Except my first SPS tank, all subsequent tanks started with some/all live rocks. In fact, I started a 25gal last month with LR and sand - no algae/no ugly stage.

Alkalinity for both tanks are around 9 - 9.5, Nitrates between 2 - 10. Phosphates are a little more tricky but run from untraceable to 0.05. I know the issues, just looking towards bare-bottom as additional help.

I noticed the 10 to 15 percent water changes but said using RO/DI. I assume you make fresh salt with this and not just putting in straight RO/DI to top off for water change.

What is you invert and fish stock list for both tanks. Include all inverts and how many. As removing the sand may correct the issue, but it may not actually address why. Also list corals and what, how often and amount you feed.

RO/DI filters/membranes were changed a few months ago. I usually get around 9-10 months before I need to switch.

The tanks were fed once a day, but we have switched to a 4 day a week schedule about two weeks ago.

Evo 13.5 - pair of small clowns, 5-8 hermits, lots of dwarf ceriths, 2-3 ceriths, 1-2 trochus, a coule nasarius snails, and a pin cushion urchin. Thriving Frogspawn (5-6 fleshy heads), thriving alveopora, bubble gum montipora is doing well. A few small Zoa colonies doing really well. He is killing it in the coral department!

IM Nuvo 20 - pair of small clowns, 10-12 hermits, 2-3 nasarius snails, 2 trochus snails, pitho crab, 4-6 cerith snails. A month ago a small lawnmower blenny was added. If it makes it through the first 2-3 months he will be a big asset. He has zoas, pipe organs and a few mushrooms that all show evidence of needing more light. I don't want to increase the lighting until we get a better grip on the nuisance algae.

Something to be aware of; all water source, food, lighting guidance are the same for my 2 tanks which have zero nuisance algae. My 5 gallon desktop gets a 1 gallon a week WC, so 20%. My 65 is far more stocked with fish and only gets about a weekly 4 gallon WC, 6-7%. My tanks are bare bottom. My 65 does have a lawnmower blenny and foxface which get a ton of credit for the work they do.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Maybe it's just me, but I prefer the look of sand beds over bare bottoms. Not to mention, you can't have sand-sifting livestock in your tank when you do bare bottom.

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

The nassarious snails seem a little light with

Alkalinity for both tanks are around 9 - 9.5, Nitrates between 2 - 10. Phosphates are a little more tricky but run from untraceable to 0.05. I know the issues, just looking towards bare-bottom as additional help.


RO/DI filters/membranes were changed a few months ago. I usually get around 9-10 months before I need to switch.

The tanks were fed once a day, but we have switched to a 4 day a week schedule about two weeks ago.

Evo 13.5 - pair of small clowns, 5-8 hermits, lots of dwarf ceriths, 2-3 ceriths, 1-2 trochus, a coule nasarius snails, and a pin cushion urchin. Thriving Frogspawn (5-6 fleshy heads), thriving alveopora, bubble gum montipora is doing well. A few small Zoa colonies doing really well. He is killing it in the coral department!

IM Nuvo 20 - pair of small clowns, 10-12 hermits, 2-3 nasarius snails, 2 trochus snails, pitho crab, 4-6 cerith snails. A month ago a small lawnmower blenny was added. If it makes it through the first 2-3 months he will be a big asset. He has zoas, pipe organs and a few mushrooms that all show evidence of needing more light. I don't want to increase the lighting until we get a better grip on the nuisance algae.

Something to be aware of; all water source, food, lighting guidance are the same for my 2 tanks which have zero nuisance algae. My 5 gallon desktop gets a 1 gallon a week WC, so 20%. My 65 is far more stocked with fish and only gets about a weekly 4 gallon WC, 6-7%. My tanks are bare bottom. My 65 does have a lawnmower blenny and foxface which get a ton of credit for the work they do.

no other sand bed sifters. And with heavy feeding some nutrients may have settled. Others will be able to chime in with this info now. Thank you for providing as every little bit helps. You probably will get asked again in a page or 2 so copy and paste lol.

 

[NC AL]

Evo 13.5 pics