Cooking fish food to control bacterial pathogens, long term specimen health effects?

[ss88]

What are the long term effects of feeding cooked foods to marine fish?
Bacterial pathogens are common on certain types of uncooked seafood. Those can potentially have a negative impact if given a foothold in an environment.
Its fairly easy to control introduction of parasitic pathogens with freezing to FDA standards, bacterial pathogens however are harder to eliminate. At this point, cooking is the only viable option I have read about for those types of seafood that commonly play host to bacterial pathogens.

 

[56longroof]

@Paul B

 

[ss88]

@Jay Hemdal, perhaps you might have some insight having worked in the public aquarium sector.
@Nutramar Foods
@ReefFrenzy

 

[nereefpat]

Bacterial pathogens are common on certain types of uncooked seafood. Those can potentially have a negative impact if given a foothold in an environment.

I'm curious about this statement.

Sure, there will be some bacteria on seafood. Have your seen your fish get sick from this? I haven't.

 

[exnisstech]

Are all those pathogens harmful to our fish or benificial? I know they are harmful to humans which is why we cook but I haven't heard of any cooked food in the ocean. Just saying because I don't think keeping everything sanitary and sterile is a good thing but I'm just a dumb hick.

 

[Dburr1014]

What was that thread PaulB just did?
Gut bac. It's all good.

 

[ss88]

Vibrio bacteria for one, common in shellfish.
Back to original question.

What are the long term effects of feeding cooked foods to marine fish?

Not asking if these bad bacteria have a positive or negative impact on fish health.

@nereefpat personally I never seen any negative effect that I can directly attribute to frozen fish food on 'aquarium fish'. SPS, not sure.

 

[Paul B]

It's actually those living pathogens you are killing that are keeping the fish healthy and immune.
You should see the filthy, mud covered earthworms I just fed my tank. Mud and all.

 

[exnisstech]

Not asking if these bad bacteria have a positive or negative impact on fish health

Sound like you are from the thread title sorry for misunderstanding.

long term specimen health effects?​

 

[nereefpat]

Not asking if these bad bacteria have a positive or negative impact on fish health.

What are you asking?

 

[Doctorgori]

whatever the case I routinely avoid those mixed seafood bags with cooked mussels… I thought cooked foods have the wrong muscle fibers or are missing essential fats erh uh sumthin like that

fish hate cooked meat and fire anyway

 

[ss88]

Let me clarify.

I would suspect base on some subjective observations.

Some bacteria found in uncooked seafoods (shellfish for example) may contain bacteria pathogens that may have a negative health effect on some species we commonly keep in reef tanks. I'm not asking if these potential bacteria pathogens have any negative or positive health effects to marine fish directly. Simply, asking.

What are the long term effects of feeding cooked foods to marine fish?

 

[Kzang]

I'm curious about this statement.

Sure, there will be some bacteria on seafood. Have your seen your fish get sick from this? I haven't.

I got food posioning, and I was looking it up. Apparently, Vibrio, which is a bad pathogenic bacteria for coral, is common from oysters/clams/etc.

 

[Doctorgori]

Let me clarify.

I would suspect base on some subjective observations.

Some bacteria found in uncooked seafoods (shellfish for example) may contain bacteria pathogens that may have a negative health effect on some species we commonly keep in reef tanks. I'm not asking if these potential bacteria pathogens have any negative or positive health effects to marine fish directly. Simply, asking.

related, sort of …

you can absolutely make fish sick with spoiled foods …what is odd is how they can feast on dead rotten stuff underwater but let your frozen shrimp sit out and get warm, all bets are off …
I’m all questions here…no answers

 

[Jay Hemdal]

related, sort of …

you can absolutely make fish sick with spoiled foods …what is odd is how they can feast on dead rotten stuff underwater but let your frozen shrimp sit out and get warm, all bets are off …
I’m all questions here…no answers

I've run into some cases here where people would thaw out their frozen foods, three days worth at a time (ugh!). I'm not sure what was driving that, but I suspect it was due to difficulty in cutting frozen portions. The next worse thing is water thawing.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

What are the long term effects of feeding cooked foods to marine fish?
Bacterial pathogens are common on certain types of uncooked seafood. Those can potentially have a negative impact if given a foothold in an environment.
Its fairly easy to control introduction of parasitic pathogens with freezing to FDA standards, bacterial pathogens however are harder to eliminate. At this point, cooking is the only viable option I have read about for those types of seafood that commonly play host to bacterial pathogens.

Depends on the temperature reached, for how long, and then, what type of food. I'd be worried about proteins and vitamins becoming denatured in the process. When we make gelation food, we need to boil water to make the gelatin portion - but we always let it cool to 140 degrees F., before folding in the other ingredients.

Most/all pathogenic bacteria are ubiquitous in aquariums, so the fish seafood won't be adding anything novel to the tank (even Mycobacteria is found in most tanks). I would be concerned about feeding fresh shellfish that is not cleared for human consumption, just as extra caution.

The only "cooked" food I've ever used is flakes/pellets, etc. and those have vitamins added back in.

 

[Doctorgori]

Depends on the temperature reached, for how long, and then, what type of food. I'd be worried about proteins and vitamins becoming denatured in the process. When we make gelation food, we need to boil water to make the gelatin portion - but we always let it cool to 140 degrees F., before folding in the other ingredients.

Most/all pathogenic bacteria are ubiquitous in aquariums, so the fish seafood won't be adding anything novel to the tank (even Mycobacteria is found in most tanks). I would be concerned about feeding fresh shellfish that is not cleared for human consumption, just as extra caution.

The only "cooked" food I've ever used is flakes/pellets, etc. and those have vitamins added back in.

While we are at it, what is the best way to thaw “small crustaceans” like krill, mysids, Brine shrimp or whatever…
Also how can one keep the innards inside the exoskeleton when adding to water?
Half the time I look upon the milky contents added to my tank with frustration wondering if my fish are just eating shrimp shell essentially
FWIW sometimes if I just thaw in fridge, no rinse
(added: mods if this deviation should be its own thread in the Nutrition Forum, plz remove)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

While we are at it, what is the best way to thaw “small crustaceans” like krill, mysids, Brine shrimp or whatever…
Also how can one keep the innards inside the exoskeleton when adding to water?
Half the time I look upon the milky contents added to my tank with frustration wondering if my fish are just eating shrimp shell essentially
FWIW sometimes if I just thaw in fridge, no rinse
(added: mods if this deviation should be its own thread in the Nutrition Forum, plz remove)

I "water thaw" by putting the food in a plastic bag and setting that in some water at room temperature. Then, if the food is really milky, and the tank I'm feeding is small, I'll give it a LIGHT rinse.

 

[ss88]

@Jay Hemdal thank you for the information.

I would be concerned about feeding fresh shellfish that is not cleared for human consumption, just as extra caution.

Indeed, that is my concern. While this is totally a subjective observation. I have seen stn and rtn events in sps corals occur in some of my various reef tanks after offering raw frozen supermarket clams. Initially I suspected water chemistry or other issues, eventually after a few instances of stn and no issues with ICP analysis. I began to suspect a potential correlation between contaminated foods and stn/rtn. Thus, three months ago I discontinued using frozen shellfish and treated the main system with a round of antibiotics, the stn/rtn events stopped. Now three months later coral growth based on alkalinity demands are faster then ever before and no stn events have reappeared.

At this point, the only frozen foods I am offering in systems containing sps corals are sushi grade frozen fish. Its my understanding that the risk of potentially negative bacteria from these food types is much lower. The FDA if I am not mistaken basically recommends only tuna and farmed salmon to be consumed raw and those still require very careful handling techniques.

Raw shellfish not cleared for human consumption, thats the whole segment of aquarium fish food products. Frozen (mysis, clams, shrimp, brine)... I have never seen an issue feeding these preparations to marine fish, it just seems like some organisms (sps) reef aquarist keep are more sensitive to pathogenic bacteria.

Could these shellfish products be cooked then blended into a gelation vitamin diet?

Again, a totally subjective observation. Reef aquariums have many factors, no two are alike and none are likely as stable as off shore reefs. Thus my concern about the new introduction of negative pathogenic bacteria could be totally misguided. I just sure hate seeing large sps colonies melt for no known reason.

 

[blecki]

Aren't you technically 'water thawing' the frozen food if you just dump the cube in still frozen? What is the danger here of thawing the cube for a couple minutes in tank water so it breaks apart?