Copper treatment in a DT, Documented
- Thread starter Nasabeau
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LeftyReefer
2500 Club Member
As I mentioned, the Safety Stop is a formalin dip. It comes in packets. if you can't find any locally , you can order some.
I just ordered some from premium aquatics and they shipped it pretty quickly. I like to keep some on hand just in case.
OP
OP
Nasabeau
Active Member
These photos can be found on my build thread, right now I can't get them but if you still want them here I can do that later tonight. I am using the fake rocks colored purple (caribsea life rock) with the exception of one live rock I picked up at my LFS. right now my tank looks off because of the yellow color of the antibiotic and its a tad cloudy from the copper. I am using a marineland magniflow 360 canister filter and reef octopus classic 90 HOB skimmer. based on the setup it would be pretty difficult to get all of them in a single picture.
OP
OP
Nasabeau
Active Member
I'm sorry, I completely missed that in your comment. sorry my brain is a little frazzled, I've got an exam coming up and to compound it just lost 2/3 of my fish almost overnight. I know my local stores don't have it (one store does nothing with salt water or fish medication of any kind, another doesn't do medications of any kind [like, they don't even carry water conditioner], and the other two have VERY knowledgeable reefers, one actually has a masters in aquarium science, both of whom I spoke directly too. if they'd had any kind of formalin product that wasn't ick-x, they would have known [both of them when I said I had brook immediately knew I was looking for formalin]. both referred me to online and gave a couple brand names neither of which I could find.) I will look into finding some safety stop, thank you so much
RVA REEF
Active Member
I would recommend getting real liverock that has been cured in the ocean, starting with dry rock is not easy and takes a long time to mature/work. I would also ditch the cannister filter and get a protein skimmer. You have some hardy fish in there that normally dont get sick unless something is seriously wrong with your tank. You see these problems a lot with tanks that were started with dry rock. Ive set up and run lots of tank that dont get sick fish with quality real liverock and filtration.
LeftyReefer
2500 Club Member
They DO have a protein skimmer (an HOB90).... and lots of people start with dry rock and have successful tanks.
OP said his tank is very new, so probably didn't QT any fish.... so they probably came in with something. I don't think you can blame this on dry rock.
OP
OP
Nasabeau
Active Member
My water parameters are fine, the tank is cycled, showing no ammonia or nitrite, nitrates are around 10, pH 8.0 calcium 420 and alk 10, salinity is 1.025, I have a skimmer as mentioned previously, and I have neither the space nor the money for a sump, so I can't ditch the canister. the only thing wrong with my tank is I didn't QT and managed to introduce brook or ich or both (not sure at this point if ich was ever actually in there or if it was brook that just looked like ich on the tang).
OP
OP
Nasabeau
Active Member
you hit the nail on the head. I was stupid and reckless and didn't QT anything, and this showed up literally 3 days after introducing the tang, and showed up on the tang first. this isn't a matter of water quality its a matter of me being a dumb*ss
OP
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Nasabeau
Active Member
update: 25% water change done. dose 3/4 of antibiotic in. I have both ruby reef rally pro and blue life safety stop in the mail. the remaining fish are actually looking like they're doing okay right now. I have ordered cuprisorb and after the last dose of antibiotic tomorrow I will wait 24 hours and add carbon and cuprisorb to the filter and begin posting levels
OP
OP
Nasabeau
Active Member
That's an idea I will keep in mind. I overnight air shipped it though, it should be here early this morning. if it's not, I will try this. both fish are looking better today.
OP
OP
Nasabeau
Active Member
Update: Last dose of antibiotic in, I plan to take it out tomorrow using carbon. reading the rally pro bottle, it seems it will also be taken out by the carbon so I am thinking of waiting to add it till after taking out the antibiotic tomorrow. the fish seem to be doing well, eating better today and not flashing, although this has shown up on my coral beauty, interested for thoughts. My mind goes immediately to HLLE, but I am also biased there.
OP
OP
Nasabeau
Active Member
Update: sorry, it's been a couple days. I have rally pro in the tank, the antibiotic is out of the tank after a 33% water change and running carbon for 24 hours, and my cuprisorb came in yesterday, I added that to my filter. plan to check that in a few days to see if it needs to be replaced, since others have said it can be kind of slow. safety stop is in the mail, and I once that comes in I plan to remove the damsel and dip him, then put him in QT. The angelfish died in the night after the first dose of Rally Pro, so it's just the damsel now...
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
While I have kept reef tanks after copper in a display tank several times throughout the years, the problem with copper in a display tank is how much copper levels swing. If you don't have a hanna copper checker, I'd suggest this as it's the best way to try. If at any point in 30 days, the level drops below 2.5PPM (for chelated copper such as coppersafe, copper power, etc) or .5 PPM (for ionic copper such as cupramine, cuprion, etc), I'd start it all over again. With all the rock, sand, and everything else that comes with a display tank, it can and will swing WILDLY until fully "saturated". After that, it will still swing, you'll need daily testing and adjusting.
Good luck.
Good luck.
OP
OP
Nasabeau
Active Member
well, thank you for the information, hopefully it can do someone else some good. TL;DR of this thread so far was I started dosing cupramine, then it turned out we had gotten the diagnosis wrong, and I was dealing with brook not ich. shortly after this discovery, despite trying to get the right stuff on time, I lost 5 out of 6 fish. I'm currently keeping my YTBD alive with ruby reef rally pro waiting on formalin to get him into a formalin dip and then to a QT.
After the damsel is treated and QT'ed I plan to do a 99% water change in the DT and continue to run cuprisorb and carbon for the fallow period, then change out the filter entirely to one with a UV sterilizer. I had planned to do the fallow for 6 weeks with a water temp of 86 (30C) (since there are no fish or inverts in the tank, I can really run it wherever as long as the bacteria will do fine. given mine cultured well at 35C I should be fine. not saying this is universal, just that I tested what temps my bacteria cultured at and they seem to be fine well above 30, so it should be fine in my tank).
Since I also have a QT and a dedicated fresh water tank, I had been thinking of testing the fallow with freshwater black mollies. I know I'm going to get some opinions on the ethics of that, but to be honest, given I will have the medications on hand to treat whatever shows up, and I have a permanent home to take care of them even after they've served their purpose, I don't see an issue. I'm probably already going overkill on the fallow period, since at 86 degrees it should be fine in two weeks. idk, if anyone has thoughts feel free to chime in. There is a good possibility there is something I'm missing here
OP
OP
Nasabeau
Active Member
update, so, been a hot minute, I went out of town and just got back this evening. just finished running all my tests and everything is looking good. supposedly my formalin dip is here although I cannot find it, so that is a call to USPS in the morning (took almost two weeks to get here and now its supposedly delivered but I cannot find it anywhere). salinity remained stable in both tanks, and running cuprisorb over my time out of town has brought the reading down to 0.08. given that's outside it's advertised range (and when I test water without reagent, my reading is coming up 0.05-0.09), I'm going to continue to run cuprisorb and check levels for a while, but its looking like the copper is back out of the tank. the damsel and all my inverts are still doing fine in their respective tanks, soon to be one tank.
Edit: Side note here, just throwing it out there, I see all over the place people concerned about power outages when they go out of town, I have my tank's power strip hooked up to an uninterruptable power supply. its basically a battery that kicks in when the power goes out. in the grand scheme of things they're pretty affordable (I am just using the one my computer is on because it's way overkill for my computer) and it will keep your tank running smoothly even in a power outage.
Edit: Side note here, just throwing it out there, I see all over the place people concerned about power outages when they go out of town, I have my tank's power strip hooked up to an uninterruptable power supply. its basically a battery that kicks in when the power goes out. in the grand scheme of things they're pretty affordable (I am just using the one my computer is on because it's way overkill for my computer) and it will keep your tank running smoothly even in a power outage.
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Nasabeau
Active Member
update: the formalin dip is here, will dip the remaining fish this afternoon and move him to QT, which is pH, temperature, and salinity matched to the DT. the copper seems to still read below levels the hannah checker can detect. not a full treatment for 30 days, but I still intend to culture the rocks and the bio-balls in my filter to compare to pre-copper cultures. will let you guys know changes in colony count and biodiversity in the next few days.
OP
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Nasabeau
Active Member
after about an hour of trying to catch the damsel, I have decided he seems healthy enough to wait, so I have placed a homemade trap in the tank and baited it with his favourite frozen food. will keep an eye on it. when he goes in I'll dip him.
OP
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Nasabeau
Active Member
Update: the damsel is caught, dipped and in QT. my tank is officially fallow, and right now my plan is to crank the temp to 85, and leave it fallow till February 3rd (6 week fallow). I also plan to watch copper levels and if they remain below the level my tester is accurate to for the next week I will change out for fresh cuprisorb and carbon and add my snails back to the DT. If anything odd arises I will post an update, but right now it's a waiting game and I don't plan to update as frequently
OP
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Nasabeau
Active Member
update, surprisingly, my copper meter actually zeroed out, and stayed zeroed for a week. plan on reintroducing the snails soon, since they have not been doing well in the QT. I think it's too new and there isn't any algae to eat. I tried adding algae pellets to no avail. also, for those wondering, I did experience a small loss, about a quarter reduction in colony forming units but the diversity seems unchanged.
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