Persistent Ich in Copper

[litsoh]

I’ve been treating one of my butterflies for ich for 19 days so far in 2.25-2.5 ppm of coppersafe but I’m still seeing ich spots show up. It’s definitely not as bad as a couple of weeks ago where it was practically covered in spots but there are still a number of them present on the fish. It’s definitely not lymphocystis either as the spots change areas every few days. If by the time I get to day 30 I’m still seeing spots should I try to get my copper levels to the higher levels of 2.40-2.50 and try again or what other things could I try to do?

Copper levels are being measured by a hanna checker and water changes are done with water already mixed to 2.25-2.5ppm. There’s also no rock in the tank that would absorb any of the copper as well so I’m certain my levels haven’t fluctuated.

Additionally, if by day 30 though some miracle I haven’t seen any ich spots for a few days would I be able to say that the treatment is done, or is it best to wait a couple of weeks from the time I last saw ich on the fish to deem it safe to go into my DT?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’ve been treating one of my butterflies for ich for 19 days so far in 2.25-2.5 ppm of coppersafe but I’m still seeing ich spots show up. It’s definitely not as bad as a couple of weeks ago where it was practically covered in spots but there are still a number of them present on the fish. It’s definitely not lymphocystis either as the spots change areas every few days. If by the time I get to day 30 I’m still seeing spots should I try to get my copper levels to the higher levels of 2.40-2.50 and try again or what other things could I try to do?

Copper levels are being measured by a hanna checker and water changes are done with water already mixed to 2.25-2.5ppm. There’s also no rock in the tank that would absorb any of the copper as well so I’m certain my levels haven’t fluctuated.

Additionally, if by day 30 though some miracle I haven’t seen any ich spots for a few days would I be able to say that the treatment is done, or is it best to wait a couple of weeks from the time I last saw ich on the fish to deem it safe to go into my DT?

Can you post pics of spots as it may be allyoodinum or other disease

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’ve been treating one of my butterflies for ich for 19 days so far in 2.25-2.5 ppm of coppersafe but I’m still seeing ich spots show up. It’s definitely not as bad as a couple of weeks ago where it was practically covered in spots but there are still a number of them present on the fish. It’s definitely not lymphocystis either as the spots change areas every few days. If by the time I get to day 30 I’m still seeing spots should I try to get my copper levels to the higher levels of 2.40-2.50 and try again or what other things could I try to do?

Copper levels are being measured by a hanna checker and water changes are done with water already mixed to 2.25-2.5ppm. There’s also no rock in the tank that would absorb any of the copper as well so I’m certain my levels haven’t fluctuated.

Additionally, if by day 30 though some miracle I haven’t seen any ich spots for a few days would I be able to say that the treatment is done, or is it best to wait a couple of weeks from the time I last saw ich on the fish to deem it safe to go into my DT?

Coppersafe is mild, but it does take time to stop active infections. The tank has a large number of tomonts in it that are not killed by copper, so that takes time.

If the fish still has spots, a video and clear pics will help us ensure that it s ich that you seeing.

You should keep the copper levels up for at least two weeks after the last ich spot was seen.

 

[litsoh]

Here’s some pics of when it was at its worst. Earlier today it was looking much clearer, and I could pretty much count the number of spots. I haven’t observed any symptoms of velvet such as a loss of appetite, swimming into the flow, or light sensitivity.

 

[litsoh]

Sorry, the other photos are having problems being uploaded throught the app

 

[litsoh]

For what it’s worth I also treated with Rally Pro around the time that those photos were taken since I was worried it might have actually been velvet in an attempt to provide some relief.

 

[litsoh]

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal

Here’s a photo I managed to snap just now. I can maybe count ~20-25 spots on him, mainly on the tailfin

 

[vetteguy53081]

Here’s some pics of when it was at its worst. Earlier today it was looking much clearer, and I could pretty much count the number of spots. I haven’t observed any symptoms of velvet such as a loss of appetite, swimming into the flow, or light sensitivity.

I see both ich and black ich and question water quality which causes skin irritations. Especially in copper, I do not trust ammonia badges especially after two weeks and encourage monitoring ammonia with a reliable kit. Ruby rally slow to work even with velvet
You want to do a good water change and start coppersafe or copper power at 2.25ppm for a Full 30 days and monitor level with a hanna brand copper test kit

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal

Here’s a photo I managed to snap just now. I can maybe count ~20-25 spots on him, mainly on the tailfin

Yes, that’s ich. The water looks cloudy, is that just an artifact of the photo?

 

[litsoh]

Yes sorry, the glass itself hasn’t been scraped/wiped but I’ve been doing water changes every couple of days. He’s been looking a lot better these past few days though, the last few days I’ve only been able to count 3-5 spots on him so you were right about coppersafe taking a little while to show results.

 

[litsoh]

So the ich has come back with a vengeance. After a few days of no spots it broke out again so I’m at a loss on what to do now. It’s not been well over 30 days in copper at 2.40-2.50, verified by my hanna checker. What could I try next, or do I just keep it in there at the full dose? @Jay Hemdal

 

[SOGavity]

So the ich has come back with a vengeance. After a few days of no spots it broke out again so I’m at a loss on what to do now. It’s not been well over 30 days in copper at 2.40-2.50, verified by my hanna checker. What could I try next, or do I just keep it in there at the full dose? @Jay Hemdal

You can try the tank transfer method. And maybe purchase a HOB UV sterilizer. Also adding some extra garlic powder to their food to help their immune system.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So the ich has come back with a vengeance. After a few days of no spots it broke out again so I’m at a loss on what to do now. It’s not been well over 30 days in copper at 2.40-2.50, verified by my hanna checker. What could I try next, or do I just keep it in there at the full dose? @Jay Hemdal

I’ve never seen ich return like that under a high dose of copper. I’m wondering if it’s something else? A clear video and pics would help here.

If it is ich, the alternative treatments would be chloroquine or hyposalinity, but really, neither of those work as well as copper. Hyposalinity takes time to get started, so ich can get worse during that time. Chloroquine is hard to source and expensive.

 

[litsoh]

So the ich has come back with a vengeance. After a few days of no spots it broke out again so I’m at a loss on what to do now. It’s not been well over 30 days in copper at 2.40-2.50, verified by my hanna checker. What could I try next, or do I just keep it in there at the full dose? @Jay Hemdal

I’ve never seen ich return like that under a high dose of copper. I’m wondering if it’s something else? A clear video and pics would help here.

If it is ich, the alternative treatments would be chloroquine or hyposalinity, but really, neither of those work as well as copper. Hyposalinity takes time to get started, so ich can get worse during that time. Chloroquine is hard to source and expensive.

I was having some trouble getting a video uploaded but I hope these photos are clear enough

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I was having some trouble getting a video uploaded but I hope these photos are clear enough

I can see a few raised spots . These could be mucus plugs. Are the fish still in full copper?

 

[litsoh]

I was having some trouble getting a video uploaded but I hope these photos are clear enough

I can see a few raised spots . These could be mucus plugs. Are the fish still in full copper?

Yes still been in full copper. At that photo I read 2.48 ppm

 

[BoaConservationist]

Lymphocystis or another Epistylis / external protozoan, I am curious is it eating normally? give me some more insight, hows it swimming, is it eating regularly, aggressively, etc, when you shine a UV on the affected areas what do you see, and also, a pen light?

 

[litsoh]

Yes eating normally, ever since the start of treatment it’s practically been a pig. I feed TDO pellets, brine, and mysis and it’s had no problem eating them all. I’ve also only seen it swimming normally apart from the start of treatment when it would flash against the PVC pipe in the tank. But it is otherwise behaving normally. Not cryptic at all either, it practically begs for food when I walk close for the morning feeding. If I do shine my phone flashlight into the PVC while it’s in there it doesn’t really freak out

 

[fish_collector]

I wouldn't consider that ich to have "come back with a vengeance", there's maybe 10 spots on him that I can see. It's odd that you had a resurgence during a copper treatment though. At any time did the copper level go below 2.25 or so? Even for a few minutes like during a water change before adding copper back in? If so, you must restart the clock. You can try hyposalinity but you'll need an accurate method of verifying salinty as it's just enough salt to not kill the fish, a Tropic Marin glass hydrometer is a good choice.

Another option is the tank transfer method (TTM). It focuses on keeping the fish a step or two ahead of the ich free swimmers. If you put your fish into a new sterile tank every 72 hours, you will effectively get the fish into a tank with zero ich after several transfers as the ich on the fish fall off naturally. It would be worth considering if you have been unable to eliminate ich with copper. There is a hybrid version of TTM that involves an H2O2 or formalin bath between tank transfers, you can read more in depth about it on humble.fish

It is not lymphocystis.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Lymphocystis or another Epistylis / external protozoan, I am curious is it eating normally? give me some more insight, hows it swimming, is it eating regularly, aggressively, etc, when you shine a UV on the affected areas what do you see, and also, a pen light?

It isn't either of those two issues. Epistylis is a freshwater protozoan and Lymphocystis is a viral disease that is rarely seen on this species, and when it is, it produces different sized sharp edged lumps on the edges of the fins.