Yellow tang aggression driving me crazy

[SlothMartin]

Hi, I have a yellow tang in a 115g display. shes my favorite fish because the clowns and cardinals just camp out in the back corner, so when people come in she is all they see, active etc.

TLDR she is trying to kill new additions. What can i do?

She was introduced with a royal gramma which died shortly after. I eventually attributed it to a preexisting condition since shes very peaceful with the other residents (you can see previous threads)

However, today i added the 2nd and final batch to the tank, at least for a long while. They included a midas blenny, 4 anthias, and a malanurus wrasse.
I planned to use an acclimation box for the wrasse, but the order from Dr Reef (which went great, thank you) included extra fish for "high mortality shippers" which i did OK. but i did not stop to think that one of those might be a 2nd male wrasse, so he had to go to the acclimation box before i can rehome him.

The other dove right into the sand, so he is safe. The blenny curled up in the high opposite corner of the tank from the tang and seems safe. the 3 female (tiny) anthias dove into the rockwork.

The large male anthias swam around and immediately the tang pins him against the glass and goes after him with the caudal spine. she was going to kill him, so i moved him to the acclimation box. it has a divider so the anthias and wrasse are not together.

I now think the tang killed the gramma, but i digress.

a little while later one of the females came out of hiding and was immediately targeted by the tang, i distracted her and the female went back to the rock work.

I am super stressed out, as im sure with everyone i feel a big responsibility for the well being of the fish i choose to keep.

I have read all of the threads and i am not sure there is more to learn but desperate to make it work. I could rehome the tang but i do love her.

things i am trying
- i changed the rockwork, but it was only on the left side since the right side is glued together. she doesnt care she doesnt go over there anyways.
- tank lights are off. room lights are off after i got done working in there
- put out nori to try to distract her before adding fish
- try to banish the guilty party to the sump for a time. cant catch her
- i put a small mirror against the glass where she usually hangs out, she didnt take notice
- i changed over to a large 12x12 mirror and she is not attacking it, but she is avoiding it and hiding in the rockwork. this is still up.
- per Revtree on a previous post, this may work itself out in 3 days. fingers crossed

so i guess my question in the meantime, how do i make life less miserable for the large anthias who clearly doesnt want to be in the acclimation box. should i move him to the sump?

one idea is after dark today, release him at a time the tang cant see his coloring, and hope for the best. but i really dont want to wake up to a dead fish.
other idea is keep him 3 days in the box or the sump and then do the same
keep trying to catch the tang and get her into the sump?

truly horrendous pic of the tank below. cant see anything with the glare, but the 2 black dots in front are the mag holders for the acclimation box, and the right side structure is where every single fish hangs out except the blenny, who you can see curled up on a snail on the left back wall
i know this makes it look like just blobs of rock but i promise there are caves and nooks and passthroughs all through it (looks a lot better with the lights on!)

 

[exnisstech]

Could try the mirror trick. Acclimation box for all new additions or could place the yellow in the box. Remove the yellow and reintroduce it later. That's all I can think of

 

[MichaelReefer]

I had a very aggressive yellow tang for a few years. He was fine with everyone in the tank but he would kill new additions...basically didnt add any more fish after a while and he eventually died...not sure why, he just fell ill and I had to clove oil him.

 

[SlothMartin]

I had a very aggressive yellow tang for a few years. He was fine with everyone in the tank but he would kill new additions...basically didnt add any more fish after a while and he eventually died...not sure why, he just fell ill and I had to clove oil him.

im sorry for your loss, i know thats not easy, even if the fish is problematic.

Do you think thats a tang thing, or a yellow tang thing, or an individual fish thing?
i dont love the idea of rehoming her, i also do not love the idea of never being able to increase my fish load on my 120g from 6 small fish for the future

 

[christinna77]

If you have a 3D printer, you could try printing a few anthias, or even fish that look similar to them, and placing them around the tank.

My friend had to do something similar when his powder brown almost killed a newly added achilles tang. He 3D printed several achilles tangs, attached them to sticks and placed them in different spots around the tank. The powder brown kept going after the fake ones instead, which gave the real achilles time to settle in and get comfortable. Genius lol. Now the achilles is actually the boss of the tank.

 

[christinna77]

And by the way, I ended up having to rehome my Biota YT. As he got larger, he became more and more aggressive. He wasn't just bullying new additions anymore, he even started going after fish that had been in the tank for a long time. He'd swim into my tilefish cave and try to slash at him there.

The crazy part is that he just got rehomed for a second time. In the tank I originally rehomed him to he was trying to kill a much larger resident foxface too... Anyway, all the fish have been happily out now that he's gone... They are sometimes really just jerks.

 

[SlothMartin]

If you have a 3D printer, you could try printing a few anthias, or even fish that look similar to them, and placing them around the tank.

lol thats a crazy idea i would have never thought of, and i do have a printer. Off to search "lyretail anthias" would be hilarious if anything popped up (i am a toddler with modeling)

edit: ok didnt find anthias obviously, but i found a trench fish which looks close enough and i am printing 3 in red/yellow silk pla. (usually only put white in tank to avoid dyes, but hopefully temporary) will report back if it works

 

[exnisstech]

Some fish are just mean I think. I have a wild yellow and a two spot bristletooth in with a sixline and an electric blue damsel and when I tried introducing a coral beauty the two spot attacked it and as soon as it was in and I removed it.
I have 4 yellows in another tanks along with 5 other tangs and they get along great. The 4 yellows hang out together.

 

[SlothMartin]

update: jenneka (the tang) is now dominating the mirror, so for posterity, i would say skip the 3" fish mirror but a 12x12 mirror plate is working for me.

the wrasse came out of the sand to hunt and she doesnt seem to care about him at all, the female anthias have ventured out a bit and seem OK. the male seems to be doing much better after a break from the assault.

the question now is, release him in the middle of the night and hope the mirror and darkness do the trick or give it 3 days and then do the same.

p.s. posted this already in central PA forum but if anyone near state college wants a beautiful male malanurus wrasse for free please hit me up. just looking for a good home

 

[Tangdora]

go bigger with the mirror If needed. I use this with good success when I’m tangs get rowdy.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstay...]&classType=VARIANT&athbdg=L1300&from=/search

 

[Subsea]

From my perspective, you dont have enough rock with hiding places.

However, I would rehome fish in a heartbeat. Replace with a smaller Tang and introduced all new fish at the same time.

For me, the easiest way to catch fish in a tank with rocks is to drain water down to a few inches remove fish and pump water back into display.

 

[SlothMartin]

From my perspective, you dont have enough rock with hiding places.

thanks for the advice. I realize the picture is garbage. angle, reflection, and refraction (which is most at play here I could get a low angle shot making this look much larger) are not helping. but this is 120lb of rock using the thirds theory, with the right structure 2/3 height of tank or more (18 inches probably) and left 2/3 of that. aside from going taller (which means in the future Acro would not fit on the right and ruin the ratio on the left) there is nearly no way to add more rock while also being able to run a scraper around the tank

I respect the advice, but if that is not enough hiding spots, then the reality is the tank is not big enough for whatever species you are referring to. 115g display at 48x24x24 roughly. and I am open to being educated on that but that's not what I have read regarding what I put in the tank

regarding the size of the yellow tang, she was 2-3 inches when I got her and maybe 3-4 now don't know how much smaller I can go. I could of course skip tangs and just have a big peaceful tank which is not something I am throwing out, but as I said, I accepted her, feel responsible for her, and I do like her. so plan A is make it work and would not consider getting rid of her unless I felt I had little other option

again not trying to push back, and thankful for advice, but I feel the picture (maybe shouldn't have posted that) is not representative of the rock structure height and especially depth, which im sure anyone who has looked at a tank from different angles can relate to

plan to try a night time tank intro with the male anthias and stay up and watch them, and if i have to net one of them again, make a new plan. cheers

 

[Subsea]

thanks for the advice. I realize the picture is garbage. angle, reflection, and refraction (which is most at play here I could get a low angle shot making this look much larger) are not helping. but this is 120lb of rock using the thirds theory, with the right structure 2/3 height of tank or more (18 inches probably) and left 2/3 of that. aside from going taller (which means in the future Acro would not fit on the right and ruin the ratio on the left) there is nearly no way to add more rock while also being able to run a scraper around the tank

I respect the advice, but if that is not enough hiding spots, then the reality is the tank is not big enough for whatever species you are referring to. 115g display at 48x24x24 roughly. and I am open to being educated on that but that's not what I have read regarding what I put in the tank

regarding the size of the yellow tang, she was 2-3 inches when I got her and maybe 3-4 now don't know how much smaller I can go. I could of course skip tangs and just have a big peaceful tank which is not something I am throwing out, but as I said, I accepted her, feel responsible for her, and I do like her. so plan A is make it work and would not consider getting rid of her unless I felt I had little other option

again not trying to push back, and thankful for advice, but I feel the picture (maybe shouldn't have posted that) is not representative of the rock structure height and especially depth, which im sure anyone who has looked at a tank from different angles can relate to

plan to try a night time tank intro with the male anthias and stay up and watch them, and if i have to net one of them again, make a new plan. cheers

Your tank / your dilemma.

Not being familiar with your rock formula;
I had more rock in 75G display and it had a Yellow Tang & a Hippo Tang. After three years Hippo got mean and I traded hm for a very small Hippo that made a perfect tank mate

 

[KrisReef]

I am a firm believer that in some cases we may find success if we have a sit down discussion, hand to fish with any offenders who decide they need to be the boss of a tank. I net out aggressive fish, put them in the sump or a box for a short while (time depends on the crimes of aggression committed). When I take them out using a wetted bare hand, they remain in my palm, out of the water while I explain to the fish that it needs to be nice, I will make certain everyone in the tank gets enough to eat, all fish have to share space, and no fighting if you want to remain in the tank. For new introductions I usually just request that they live and eat what is offered, as I release the fish I confirm that the tank is now their home, and I am not going to eat them. Hand release by lowering your hand, and letting the fish swim away into its future.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi, I have a yellow tang in a 115g display. shes my favorite fish because the clowns and cardinals just camp out in the back corner, so when people come in she is all they see, active etc.

TLDR she is trying to kill new additions. What can i do?

She was introduced with a royal gramma which died shortly after. I eventually attributed it to a preexisting condition since shes very peaceful with the other residents (you can see previous threads)

However, today i added the 2nd and final batch to the tank, at least for a long while. They included a midas blenny, 4 anthias, and a malanurus wrasse.
I planned to use an acclimation box for the wrasse, but the order from Dr Reef (which went great, thank you) included extra fish for "high mortality shippers" which i did OK. but i did not stop to think that one of those might be a 2nd male wrasse, so he had to go to the acclimation box before i can rehome him.

The other dove right into the sand, so he is safe. The blenny curled up in the high opposite corner of the tank from the tang and seems safe. the 3 female (tiny) anthias dove into the rockwork.

The large male anthias swam around and immediately the tang pins him against the glass and goes after him with the caudal spine. she was going to kill him, so i moved him to the acclimation box. it has a divider so the anthias and wrasse are not together.

I now think the tang killed the gramma, but i digress.

a little while later one of the females came out of hiding and was immediately targeted by the tang, i distracted her and the female went back to the rock work.

I am super stressed out, as im sure with everyone i feel a big responsibility for the well being of the fish i choose to keep.

I have read all of the threads and i am not sure there is more to learn but desperate to make it work. I could rehome the tang but i do love her.

things i am trying
- i changed the rockwork, but it was only on the left side since the right side is glued together. she doesnt care she doesnt go over there anyways.
- tank lights are off. room lights are off after i got done working in there
- put out nori to try to distract her before adding fish
- try to banish the guilty party to the sump for a time. cant catch her
- i put a small mirror against the glass where she usually hangs out, she didnt take notice
- i changed over to a large 12x12 mirror and she is not attacking it, but she is avoiding it and hiding in the rockwork. this is still up.
- per Revtree on a previous post, this may work itself out in 3 days. fingers crossed

so i guess my question in the meantime, how do i make life less miserable for the large anthias who clearly doesnt want to be in the acclimation box. should i move him to the sump?

one idea is after dark today, release him at a time the tang cant see his coloring, and hope for the best. but i really dont want to wake up to a dead fish.
other idea is keep him 3 days in the box or the sump and then do the same
keep trying to catch the tang and get her into the sump?

truly horrendous pic of the tank below. cant see anything with the glare, but the 2 black dots in front are the mag holders for the acclimation box, and the right side structure is where every single fish hangs out except the blenny, who you can see curled up on a snail on the left back wall
i know this makes it look like just blobs of rock but i promise there are caves and nooks and passthroughs all through it (looks a lot better with the lights on!)

Mirror trick is often an alternative and not solution. Isolation in the sump or separate tank is warranted and for at least 3-4 weeks

 

[SlothMartin]

thanks everyone, and thanks subsea i hope i didnt come off as dismissive. i let the anthias free after dusk and am monitoring every 20 min or so if i see any further aggression ill move someone to the sump. wish me the best. so far so good, everyone sleeping

 

[fish_collector]

Lose the yellow tang and replace it with a foxface, same colors and they share similar purposes. You’ll rehome a yellow tang quickly.

 

[Subsea]

thanks everyone, and thanks subsea i hope i didnt come off as dismissive. i let the anthias free after dusk and am monitoring every 20 min or so if i see any further aggression ill move someone to the sump. wish me the best. so far so good, everyone sleeping

“there is nearly no way to add more rock while also being able to run a scraper around the tank“

After reading some of your threads, I gather this is your first tank. Welcome to the addiction, I have been at it for 55 years. AND I have NEVER cleaned the back glass on a reef tank. I don’t clean the side glass either. You can imagine how much more room you have if you eliminate that requirement. Three differrent people on this thread said fish need sufficient hiding places.

In your Dino/Diatom thread, you wished you had started the tank with live rock to avoid the uglies. You can still add diver collected live rock.

 

[slingfox]

Hi, I have a yellow tang in a 115g display. shes my favorite fish because the clowns and cardinals just camp out in the back corner, so when people come in she is all they see, active etc.

TLDR she is trying to kill new additions. What can i do?

She was introduced with a royal gramma which died shortly after. I eventually attributed it to a preexisting condition since shes very peaceful with the other residents (you can see previous threads)

However, today i added the 2nd and final batch to the tank, at least for a long while. They included a midas blenny, 4 anthias, and a malanurus wrasse.
I planned to use an acclimation box for the wrasse, but the order from Dr Reef (which went great, thank you) included extra fish for "high mortality shippers" which i did OK. but i did not stop to think that one of those might be a 2nd male wrasse, so he had to go to the acclimation box before i can rehome him.

The other dove right into the sand, so he is safe. The blenny curled up in the high opposite corner of the tank from the tang and seems safe. the 3 female (tiny) anthias dove into the rockwork.

The large male anthias swam around and immediately the tang pins him against the glass and goes after him with the caudal spine. she was going to kill him, so i moved him to the acclimation box. it has a divider so the anthias and wrasse are not together.

I now think the tang killed the gramma, but i digress.

a little while later one of the females came out of hiding and was immediately targeted by the tang, i distracted her and the female went back to the rock work.

I am super stressed out, as im sure with everyone i feel a big responsibility for the well being of the fish i choose to keep.

I have read all of the threads and i am not sure there is more to learn but desperate to make it work. I could rehome the tang but i do love her.

things i am trying
- i changed the rockwork, but it was only on the left side since the right side is glued together. she doesnt care she doesnt go over there anyways.
- tank lights are off. room lights are off after i got done working in there
- put out nori to try to distract her before adding fish
- try to banish the guilty party to the sump for a time. cant catch her
- i put a small mirror against the glass where she usually hangs out, she didnt take notice
- i changed over to a large 12x12 mirror and she is not attacking it, but she is avoiding it and hiding in the rockwork. this is still up.
- per Revtree on a previous post, this may work itself out in 3 days. fingers crossed

so i guess my question in the meantime, how do i make life less miserable for the large anthias who clearly doesnt want to be in the acclimation box. should i move him to the sump?

one idea is after dark today, release him at a time the tang cant see his coloring, and hope for the best. but i really dont want to wake up to a dead fish.
other idea is keep him 3 days in the box or the sump and then do the same
keep trying to catch the tang and get her into the sump?

truly horrendous pic of the tank below. cant see anything with the glare, but the 2 black dots in front are the mag holders for the acclimation box, and the right side structure is where every single fish hangs out except the blenny, who you can see curled up on a snail on the left back wall
i know this makes it look like just blobs of rock but i promise there are caves and nooks and passthroughs all through it (looks a lot better with the lights on!)

If you need to catch fish in a larger tank you can buy egg crate from Amazon and piece them together to make tank dividers. I also use tin snips to trim the egg crate so that it fits perfectly. Once a dish is isolated to a smaller section, remove the rockwork and catch the fish.

 

[slingfox]

I agree with the posts above that it does not look like you have enough caves and hiding spots. Adding more rocks makes a huge difference in reducing fish aggression. That said, some fish are bullies and will boss other fish around even if there is plenty of shelter and food available.