Copperband Butterfly... Illness or Injury?

Jedi1199 · Oct 19, 2023

The day before yesterday I noticed this black patch over the eye of my CBB. It looks like an injury, but thought I would seek some advice from some of the experts here...

vetteguy53081 · Oct 19, 2023

Jedi1199 said:
The day before yesterday I noticed this black patch over the eye of my CBB. It looks like an injury, but thought I would seek some advice from some of the experts here...

This looks very much like an injury and should heal on its own however keep an eye on it for signs of infection ( redness, raw) which will require treatment in separate tank with seachem kanaplex or Maracyn 2)

Cichlid Dad · Oct 19, 2023

I love my Copperband, hope he heals fast.

Jedi1199 · Oct 20, 2023

Something is going on with this guy.. He didn't eat when I fed the tank a few hours ago. He has been a greedy eater since I got him... Now he is swimming in erratic loop the loops, If I had not been in the room, he would be dead on the floor right now.. he jumped out twice in about 5 minutes.

Jedi1199 · Oct 20, 2023

I have a really bad feeling about this... Since I have to way to cover the tank, and no way to isolate him so he can't jump out I fear if whatever is wrong doesn't kill him a night on the floor will... Sigh

Jedi1199 · Oct 20, 2023

I am sad to say that my beautiful CBB has passed.

Other than the mark, I can find no other reason why a fish that appeared happy and healthy this morning would turn so suddenly. He was eating when I fed the tank at about noon, then not eating when I fed dinner around 8. All day long he was swimming and breathing like normal. Then after the 8 pm feeding, he started with the erratic swimming I mentioned. He hopped out of the water twice but fortunately landed on the glass bracing panel in the center of the tank. About an hour ago (1 am or so, I could see he was breathing super fast and pretty much laying on his side. I hope whatever did this doesn't spread to the rest of my tank... ugghhhh

@vetteguy53081 Do you have any ideas? I do have a short, poor quality video showing his erratic swimming if that would help.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Boreas_SA · Oct 20, 2023

How long did you have him before he died?

Paul B · Oct 20, 2023

Jedi1199 said:
Do you have any ideas?

Yes, copperbands are very susceptible to that, although I never saw it on the head before. I necropsied a few that died from that and it was always internal bleeding. I am not sure why they get this so often but it is always fatal and there was nothing you could do for it.

I think it happens during capture and when it's on the side of the fish it looks like a fib punctures some soft tissue and it bleeds internally.
You can see a similar mark on this one that I had many years ago. (But this was something else that went away with no help from me)

Jedi1199 · Oct 20, 2023

Boreas_SA said:
How long did you have him before he died?

I got him 2 weeks ago... October 4th.

Jedi1199 · Oct 20, 2023

Paul B said:
Yes, copperbands are very susceptible to that, although I never saw it on the head before. I necropsied a few that died from that and it was always internal bleeding. I am not sure why they get this so often but it is always fatal and there was nothing you could do for it.

I think it happens during capture and when it's on the side of the fish it looks like a fib punctures some soft tissue and it bleeds internally.
You can see a similar mark on this one that I had many years ago.

Thank you for the information. Is there any way to prevent, or at least find the cause of these injuries? My LFS had another smaller one in the tank a couple days ago. I would really like to get a replacement for the one I lost, but not if I am going to have the same thing happen again. If the injury was preventable, I would like to know at least what to watch out for so I can attempt to prevent it from happening again.

BTW... I see you have a Red Saddleback also.. Mean little buggars but so darn cool!!!

Jay Hemdal · Oct 20, 2023

Jedi1199 said:
I got him 2 weeks ago... October 4th.

Oh - sorry to hear.

This was likely internal Uronema. That is a protozoan commonly seen in certainly newly acquired fish, including copperbands. These protozoans cause massive internal tissue damage and is just not treatable. Sometimes, the lesions erupt to the surface, but not always. It is most often confused with an injury of some sort.

You could see the lesion most clearly under white portions of fish because the skin is more translucent there.

Can I use your picture in a post I have on “internal bruising”? It will help other people with their diagnoses…

Jay

vetteguy53081 · Oct 20, 2023

Jedi1199 said:
I am sad to say that my beautiful CBB has passed.

Other than the mark, I can find no other reason why a fish that appeared happy and healthy this morning would turn so suddenly. He was eating when I fed the tank at about noon, then not eating when I fed dinner around 8. All day long he was swimming and breathing like normal. Then after the 8 pm feeding, he started with the erratic swimming I mentioned. He hopped out of the water twice but fortunately landed on the glass bracing panel in the center of the tank. About an hour ago (1 am or so, I could see he was breathing super fast and pretty much laying on his side. I hope whatever did this doesn't spread to the rest of my tank... ugghhhh

@vetteguy53081 Do you have any ideas? I do have a short, poor quality video showing his erratic swimming if that would help.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Sorry to hear. I believe as jay stated may have been early uronema or damage from netting
Was this noticeable at time of purchase?
If not- then was a development leading to disease or injury

Jedi1199 · Oct 20, 2023

Jay Hemdal said:
Oh - sorry to hear.

This was likely internal Uronema. That is a protozoan commonly seen in certainly newly acquired fish, including copperbands. These protozoans cause massive internal tissue damage and is just not treatable. Sometimes, the lesions erupt to the surface, but not always. It is most often confused with an injury of some sort.

You could see the lesion most clearly under white portions of fish because the skin is more translucent there.

Can I use your picture in a post I have on “internal bruising”? It will help other people with their diagnoses…

Jay

Yes you are welcome to use any of my photos.

Jay Hemdal · Oct 20, 2023

Jedi1199 said:
Yes you are welcome to use any of my photos.

Thanks, I’m going to update a thread on clownfish bruising, as this lesion is identical.

Again, sorry for your loss.

Jay

Paul B · Oct 20, 2023

Jedi1199 said:
Thank you for the information. Is there any way to prevent, or at least find the cause of these injuries?

I doubt it and it is normally on new fish.

MnFish1 · Oct 20, 2023

Jedi1199 said:
I got him 2 weeks ago... October 4th.

He could have had an injury, parasite, etc that just slowly got worse. I'm assuming your other parameters are doing ok - because often fish will jump repeatedly when there is something irritating in the water. In any case - sorry about your fish - they are very interesting.

PS - to avoid further issues - I would strongly consider a cover, since even fish that one wouldn't expect to do so can easily jump out. Did you QT the fish?

MnFish1 · Oct 20, 2023

PS once a fish has the trauma of jumping onto the floor once, let alone twice, if there was an injury, it could have been made much worse. Again, sorry not to have better/simpler news

Jedi1199 · Oct 20, 2023

vetteguy53081 said:
Sorry to hear. I believe as jay stated may have been early uronema or damage from netting
Was this noticeable at time of purchase?
If not- then was a development leading to disease or injury

No it was not noticeable at the time of purchase. As I said, he looked fine until the morning of the 16th.