Copperband Help!

[Cichlid Dad]

I'm glad it has worked out! My Copperband is my center piece fish and quite the character. Actually the tank boss

 

[mythesis]

This is a horribly ignorant question on my part ----

Some of the comments have mentioned moving to "more nutritious" food. I naively thought that the Frozen Mysis was nutritious....is that not the case?

If not, what should my target end state for feeding my fish?

I give a mix of pellets and Frozen Mysis currently. Copperband currently only eating Live Shrimp, but goal will be to move to something else so I don't have to go to fish store every week for Shrimp.

(I also have a red wiggler worm farm in the basement. The fish seem to love those. I assume similar to black worms in nutrition)

 

[Duane family]

This is a horribly ignorant question on my part ----

Some of the comments have mentioned moving to "more nutritious" food. I naively thought that the Frozen Mysis was nutritious....is that not the case?

If not, what should my target end state for feeding my fish?

I give a mix of pellets and Frozen Mysis currently. Copperband currently only eating Live Shrimp, but goal will be to move to something else so I don't have to go to fish store every week for Shrimp.

(I also have a red wiggler worm farm in the basement. The fish seem to love those. I assume similar to black worms in nutrition)

Its a great question, the answer depends largely on the specific species and in some circumstances ( often CBB's ) to a degree the specific fish. But lets stick to the species in question, the CBB

In an ideal situation these fish should be supported by the tanks natural growth as a food source. We talking Pod's, sponges and other small growth from your rocks. This is why as soon as you put that new rock in he's behavior changed instantly. The regular feed which you give the fish can supplement the diet in a very small way or cater to a CBB which is an over eater. This is different to many of the fish we keep where we are providing 90% of the diet externally. This would be the big reason why it is only advised to keep a CBB in a mature tank where there is lots of growth and natural prey for them to eat. Then also a factor is sustainability of the environment. It doesn't help much if the fish eat consumes more than what the environment can produce. This is a very common occurrence with the CBB and something I think you should be considering. But having said that CBB's don't need much food source per day compared to a tang for example. They are slow graceful swimmers with very very small abdomens.

With regards to the worms you refer to, I don't know anything about them specifically but I am sure this will be an extremely good source of nutrients for your CBB and they do love worms. Hopefully other fish give him a chance to get some.

With regards to the frozen mysis, yeah it offers very very little nutrients for the volume. Most of the nutrients are lost to the moisture when defrosting. Its just a little better than a empty crustacean shell in my opinion. But to fish it is a very attractive smell and taste so that's why it generally gets them eating to begin.

 

[Aquariumaddictuk]

Tuesday Evening Update:​

​

WE HAVE FEEDING!

It ate some (live) brine shrimp, picked a few off the rocks and then ate a couple from the water column. Saw it eat at least 3-5 and it's picking for more.

I have a feeder coming this week that attaches to the glass w/ holes, and will start putting food in there to pick at when it arrives.

But, hopefully, we're on our way!


Thank you all SO MUCH for helping me!

Superb news!
Wonderful fish with such character.
Once they get the feeding bug they are actually very greedy.
Mines probably a tad overweight but I'm happy with that.

 

[mythesis]

Thursday Update:​

I put in a jar of Pods & Baby Brine from Algae Barn Not sure it was necessary, but figure more pods can't hurt.

Copperband investigates, but doesn't eat, the frozen mysis shrimp covered in garlic.

It still eats the live brine shrimp quickly, though.

The "L"FS that sells live shrimp is almost an hour away, so need to figure out how to ween it off the live and back to a more sustainable food source.

90 gal with tons of live rock, hopefully the 'pods will start populating the tank themselves. I've put 3 jars in over the last month or so, so I assume there's a bunch in there somewhere.

 

[Gtinnel]

Thursday Update:​

I put in a jar of Pods & Baby Brine from Algae Barn Not sure it was necessary, but figure more pods can't hurt.

Copperband investigates, but doesn't eat, the frozen mysis shrimp covered in garlic.

It still eats the live brine shrimp quickly, though.

The "L"FS that sells live shrimp is almost an hour away, so need to figure out how to ween it off the live and back to a more sustainable food source.

90 gal with tons of live rock, hopefully the 'pods will start populating the tank themselves. I've put 3 jars in over the last month or so, so I assume there's a bunch in there somewhere.

A white worm culture was a life saver for me before my CBB would start eating frozen.

I don’t need to feed worms to the tank anymore but I still do a few times a week because all of my fish love them. Plus I put the worms in one of the frozen food feeder cups that allows the copperband to pick at them from the holes in the cup while my other fish have to wait for worms to fall out of the cup.

 

[alton]

Stop the garlic and it will probably eat the mysis. I feed Spiralina Brine, Mysis, and LRS. All three of mine are big eaters.

 

[boacvh]

I started feeding mine clams in the printedreef feeder. Now he takes everything

 

[mythesis]

Stop the garlic and it will probably eat the mysis. I feed Spiralina Brine, Mysis, and LRS. All three of mine are big eaters.

Yep, next batch will be garlic free (my wife's sensitive nose will appreciate that anyway)

 

[Tamberav]

This is a horribly ignorant question on my part ----

Some of the comments have mentioned moving to "more nutritious" food. I naively thought that the Frozen Mysis was nutritious....is that not the case?

If not, what should my target end state for feeding my fish?

I give a mix of pellets and Frozen Mysis currently. Copperband currently only eating Live Shrimp, but goal will be to move to something else so I don't have to go to fish store every week for Shrimp.

(I also have a red wiggler worm farm in the basement. The fish seem to love those. I assume similar to black worms in nutrition)

Mysis is a lot of shell and is good as an offering but not as sole offering. Use it in rotation.

I would recommend LRS if you want a "go to" frozen.

White worm culture is heaven to fish. Fresh clams from the supermarket are also great.

 

[mythesis]

Mysis is a lot of shell and is good as an offering but not as sole offering. Use it in rotation.

I would recommend LRS if you want a "go to" frozen.

White worm culture is heaven to fish. Fresh clams from the supermarket are also great.

Sorry, horribly new:

Is http://www.larrysreefservices.com/fish-frenzy.html what you mean by LRS?

 

[Tamberav]

Sorry, horribly new:

Is http://www.larrysreefservices.com/fish-frenzy.html what you mean by LRS?

yes!! You can always chop it while frozen to make the pieces smaller if needed.

 

[Treefer32]

I kept a CBB for two years succesfully. It ate out of my hands everyday! It died when I had two extremely agressive fish that got too big and basically bullied the CBB out of the way of food. CBBs generally give up eating pretty quickly if there's too agressive fish. I removed the agressive fish, but not in time to save the CBB. :( One of the few fish I actually mourned. He was like a puppy. Came up to me everyday and would munch partially thawed frozen food from my fingers. I miss him.

That said, a couple ideas, I don't know if you can save it or not. These fish are extremely sensitive to almost anything! Lol, hense expert care required.

1. Yes, Any rocks with aiptasia and/or tiny worms Please add!! I got a CBB because my tank was covered in Aiptasia. I was to the point of tearing down my 340 gallon tank. The CBB devoured every aiptasia in my tank. I can't begin to tell you how many tens of thousands of aiptasia I had. My CBB devoured them all in probably 6 months. To this day, I have no aiptasia thanks to my awesome CBB. You don't realize how much these fish eat, until tens of thousands of aiptasia were gone in 6 months! (I'm not lieing on the number....) I had aiptasia covering my sand bed. I couldn't see my sand bed anymore. Over 100 pounds of rock in my tank were covered in aiptasia big and small. I had aiptasia starting to grow on the glass there wasn't room for them to spread anywhere else.

2. I can see what the fish is doing in your video. A lot of people miss this. But, He's chasing his reflection. I see his reflection in the video and he's going back and forth because he sees another of himself. Either reduce the reflective nature of the side glass or let him settle in for a couple days. This is most likely very normal acclimation behavior. He wants to get to the other fish and he's smartly swimming to the "edge" of the obstacle (the glass) to try to get to the other fish (which is the corner). Only he can't find a way around it. See if after a few days he gives up. I have wrasses and tangs that do this everyday, check to see if their reflection is still there, but they usually get distracted by something else then come back later.

3. CBBs are very very timid eaters! To the point they're almost scared of food in the water column. A few things to try (I didn't do this, and if you want decorative clams I wouldn't do this), but try putting food on a clam shell, or feed raw clam directly on a clam shell on a rock somewhere. Put it in the same spot, same time everyday, remove within half hour (or sooner) and see if he eventually finds it. You could do this with Matchstick food as well. I used Match stick and just smooshed in on the glass in the same place everyday. He came and pecked at it constantly. The idea is establish a routine of at least once a day putting out a "dog dish" in the same spot.

4. Lastly, try just holding frozen food near him with your fingers. (Mysis is the easiest, but others that fit in his beak might work). Hold it in the water near him, the same place, the same times every day. You never know he might surprise you and start eating out of your hand. After a few times of this, if he eats, he will find your fingers very safe to eat from. Mine bit my fingers a couple times trying to get food off them. Lol. He should eventually search for pods as well throughout the day, but that takes time. Supplemental feedings to get him feeling safe and comfortable with routine is key initially.


Trying some or all of those things, may not be enough to save him. He may just have given up on eating. It's hard to know for sure. Try things, but there's no guarantees!

 

[Tamberav]

Sorry, horribly new:

Is http://www.larrysreefservices.com/fish-frenzy.html what you mean by LRS?

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/masstick-fish-food-easy-reefs.html
another nice food, can mix it with a drop of two of selcon or fish vitamin instead of water and squish it to the glass or rocks. They make "pre-made" ones but I didn't find those as enticing to fish.

 

[Treefer32]

I should add that I did start with LRS Reef frenzy food. That was what the LFS suggested and it worked great. I later switched to my own food that I made myself and Mysis. He pretty much ate almost anything meaty out of my hand. As I observed my cbb throughout the day, I noticed him hunting in the rocks and every now and then he'd move so fast I wasn't sure I saw him lunge or not. And then his beak was munching on something. These things know how to hunt pods. So, if you've got a good population, he should have no issues hunting them.

One of the best recommendations I saw researching buying a CBB was to make sure that it is hunting at the LFS. If has stopped to stare at the sky for any reason and is not obsessively inspecting the rocks don't buy it. For these things to survive they need a lot of rock and a lot of rock covered in pods. If they're not hunting at the LFS, they're probably not going to survive. Now transport, QT, acclimation, could still disrupt that behavior. So, they're tough to stabilize.

 

[mythesis]

Friday Update:​

He still eats live brine shrimp readily.

But unfortunately hasn't touched frozen Mysis or Red Wiggler Worms at all (stopped adding garlic the last few times, no difference)

Heading to another LFS tonight to pick up some of the LRS food to try that. I hope he takes it, because the Brine shrimp is an hour away and I'm not up for making that trip every week.


But otherwise he still hangs out against that one wall. I took the paper off the outside and didn't seem to affect him. He swims around the tank frequently, but seems to like that wall the best. I assume it's just acclimation and will get better over time.


I assume the pods/baby brine are in the tank somewhere. Will keep adding pods for a while for general purposes, so I hope the CB appreciates it!

 

[code4]

Baby brine does not live long without the proper set up in a tank. I hatch it daily for some baby mandarins I have. MY CB likes to eat in the same spot mostly. The pouch feeder was the most successful for feeding. It took a long time to figure out what he would and wouldn't eat. As I mentioned earlier he liked the frozen cubes that came in a package with a CB on the front best. I would slice a cube up and put some in the pouch and walk away. I also keep a small baggy in the freezer with some pre sliced for convenience.

I wish you both luck.

 

[Treefer32]

Friday Update:​

He still eats live brine shrimp readily.

But unfortunately hasn't touched frozen Mysis or Red Wiggler Worms at all (stopped adding garlic the last few times, no difference)

Heading to another LFS tonight to pick up some of the LRS food to try that. I hope he takes it, because the Brine shrimp is an hour away and I'm not up for making that trip every week.


But otherwise he still hangs out against that one wall. I took the paper off the outside and didn't seem to affect him. He swims around the tank frequently, but seems to like that wall the best. I assume it's just acclimation and will get better over time.


I assume the pods/baby brine are in the tank somewhere. Will keep adding pods for a while for general purposes, so I hope the CB appreciates it!

CBBs also hunt at dusk / night time. (That's when pods come out as well). He may be eating and you just have no idea. ;) Hoping for the best.

 

[jtf74]

I've had my cbb six years. Never seen him eat pods. Eats mostly frozen mysis but I found that fresh seafood mix from traders joes with scallops,shrimp, calamari helped him bulk up better. Mine has become much less picky over time. Would probably eat fried chicken if I offered it. If your is eating I'd keep it where it is and feed often and a lot. Try any fresh seafood you can find. Mine also loved Black worms initially and I fed those for a few months until it gained weight. Awesome fish when they eat and very aggressive eater once established. Also mine swims back and forth in front of the glass most of the time, its normal.

 

[mythesis]

Oh man,

I've had my cbb six years. Never seen him eat pods. Eats mostly frozen mysis but I found that fresh seafood mix from traders joes with scallops,shrimp, calamari helped him bulk up better. Mine has become much less picky over time. Would probably eat fried chicken if I offered it. If your is eating I'd keep it where it is and feed often and a lot. Try any fresh seafood you can find. Mine also loved Black worms initially and I fed those for a few months until it gained weight. Awesome fish when they eat and very aggressive eater once established. Also mine swims back and forth in front of the glass most of the time, its normal.

Oh man, Trader Joe's is so much more convenient.

How long do you keep the mix in the (fridge/freezer?). I'll try that for sure if it doesn't do the LRS food (which it ignored tonight)