Coral Behavior: Too Low / Too High Lighting

[g6gang]

So I am trying to understand if I have a new LED light set to high or too low. My coral reactions over the past two months have confused me. Here is the background:

Previous Light: Orbit Marine set at 10hr full intensity program. Mounted right on top of tank. Overall all coral showed growth in the 9 months and overall looked 'happy'.

Switched to Reef Radiance 165P+ (full spectrum, must stronger light) Custom schedule 10 hr light period, max blue 35%, max white 25%. Light seemed as bright in center but definately not as uniform coverage as the Orbit Marine. I had my light lovers 'SPS' Frags in the center hot spot and everything else as it was before.

New light has been running about two months. And here is what happened:
- Lost all of my SPS frags except Green slimer
- All chalice frags (on sand and in shadowy areas) are STNing bad.
- Zoas in same area as Chalice frags decided to extend there polyps so they have long necks (I though a sign of too low light)
- Elegance coral (on sand in middle of tank) - Looks great like it did before but better coloration
- Frog/Torch - look ok but not as extended as before (not retracted, but just not as extended)
- Riccordeas - right next to Zoa above - look the best they have been with full extension and polpys
- Acans - in center 'hot spot - mid tank - look mostly unchanged, but possibly not retracted
- GSP - un phased
- Xenia, Finger Leather - unphased
- Yellow Palys - look healthier and fuller
- Green Palys - retracted - too much light I think - recently moved to lower light area


Thoughts on what happened? Should I ramp up/down? Move around? What are general reactions for each type of coral on if it is getting too low or too much light.

 

[g6gang]

Or does this type of question belong in a different forum?

 

[Big B]

I will throw my ideas out there for you but take it for what its worth. I am just getting back into the game from a 4 year hiatus and I have been doing a ton of research on leds so ya, its not worth much.
First off your tank looks good. I know the Orbits aren't very popular for anything other then a Fowler tank so my guess is you shocked your corals pretty bad by switching to a stronger light. Your intensities don't sound to high to me but I know leds can be harsh. I would probably try lowering them another 5% or so and cut back your lighting schedule a couple hours. After two month Im not sure if it will do anything for you but its worth the shot.

You might also check tank parameters as well, lighting is just one piece of the puzzle and if you have my luck, there could be something else going on that is a coincidence with your lighting change. Again Im a newbie here so take it for what its worth, good luck.

 

[g6gang]

I will throw my ideas out there for you but take it for what its worth. I am just getting back into the game from a 4 year hiatus and I have been doing a ton of research on leds so ya, its not worth much.
First off your tank looks good. I know the Orbits aren't very popular for anything other then a Fowler tank so my guess is you shocked your corals pretty bad by switching to a stronger light. Your intensities don't sound to high to me but I know leds can be harsh. I would probably try lowering them another 5% or so and cut back your lighting schedule a couple hours. After two month Im not sure if it will do anything for you but its worth the shot.

You might also check tank parameters as well, lighting is just one piece of the puzzle and if you have my luck, there could be something else going on that is a coincidence with your lighting change. Again Im a newbie here so take it for what its worth, good luck.

Thanks for jumping in. What I forgot to mention was that the SPS was too my surprise growing with the Orbit Marine. I thought they were all going to RTN. My chalice was also growing nice.

Params are on point. But one thing that happened recently was temp dropped to 73 for a few hrs because of ice storm. That was about 2 weeks ago. But some of this was happening prior..so maybe temp drop just put it over the edge with no recovery.

 

[JSeward]

I would say your lights aren't bright enough. The zoanthids are reaching. I always dim my lights to get that stalk extension. I can only keep the hardiest of SPS alive with my Zoa's, like the slimer you mentioned, because of the low light. LPS, GPS, Riccordeas, and soft stuff does fine in low light and you're seeing that. The Euphyllias that aren't looking great could just be responding to change. Not good or bad, just getting used to things. Something else to note is that you have a huge variety of corals in your tank. Not all of them are going to prefer the same type of water chemistry, flow, and light. It'll be difficult to have everything doing great in the same tank.

The temperature drop shouldn't have been a problem. 73F really isn't that cold. I've had temps dip into the low 60's when a heater went offline for a couple days with corals only showing mild signs of irritation. Long term wouldn't be good, but they can handle brief periods of less than ideal temps. Of course, some corals are more sensitive to change than others.

Also, I'm not sure what your parameters actually are. I can't find "on point" on the chart in my test kit. If you want to see your Acan's and Euphyllia at their best, maintain your alkalinity in 10-10.5 dKh range if you aren't already. Another tip to get everything looking good is to get an auto top off if you don't have one. Getting my salinity rock solid had a huge impact on overall tank health, with the Euphyllia showing the biggest improvement.

 

[g6gang]

I would say your lights aren't bright enough. The zoanthids are reaching. I always dim my lights to get that stalk extension. I can only keep the hardiest of SPS alive with my Zoa's, like the slimer you mentioned, because of the low light. LPS, GPS, Riccordeas, and soft stuff does fine in low light and you're seeing that. The Euphyllias that aren't looking great could just be responding to change. Not good or bad, just getting used to things. Something else to note is that you have a huge variety of corals in your tank. Not all of them are going to prefer the same type of water chemistry, flow, and light. It'll be difficult to have everything doing great in the same tank.

The temperature drop shouldn't have been a problem. 73F really isn't that cold. I've had temps dip into the low 60's when a heater went offline for a couple days with corals only showing mild signs of irritation. Long term wouldn't be good, but they can handle brief periods of less than ideal temps. Of course, some corals are more sensitive to change than others.

Also, I'm not sure what your parameters actually are. I can't find "on point" on the chart in my test kit. If you want to see your Acan's and Euphyllia at their best, maintain your alkalinity in 10-10.5 dKh range if you aren't already. Another tip to get everything looking good is to get an auto top off if you don't have one. Getting my salinity rock solid had a huge impact on overall tank health, with the Euphyllia showing the biggest improvement.

Thanks JSeward for the reply. Great points. Yeah I was too lazy to dig up my last params. here they are (it is from last week, so I am due for another reading):

Sg: 1.025 (Milwaukee Meter)
Nitrate: 0 (API)
Calc: 500 (API)
PH: 8.2 (API)
Mag: 1200 (red Sea)
dKH: 9 (Red Sea)
Phosphate .06 (Hanna Ultra Low converted)

I would like to get my dKH higher and have been using Red Sea Pro for my water changes (about due for another one).

I was mostly not interested in SPS, but a supplier sent me the wrong frag pack so I threw them in the tank as an experiment and to my surprise they actually grew under my previous Orbit marine low wat LEDSs. I was shocked, so I though they would do even better under the new lights, but the all basically RTNed around the two week mark . Maybe a coincidence - but reminded me that this is why I should stick to LPS and softies.

Other info:
Runing GFO in BRS reactor 24x7 (changed Jan 17)
Running GAC in BRW reactor 24x7 (changed Jan 17)
40 G sump - Reef Octopus (forget which model but is oversized)
Reguium - just cleaned out and left with three small balls of Chaeto

 

[JSeward]

Those parameters are fine. They could use a little tweaking, but all within a normal range that's not going to kill anything. They are probably exactly the same now as they were last week. You don't have anything that would rapidly deplete the water column of the elements that you're testing for. I think your problem is that you just don't have your lights outputting enough light. You can leave it as is unless you want to keep SPS in the future. Soft stuff and LPS really don't need that much light. If you want to bump up the total light output, I'd probably keep the max intensity the same and increase the max intensity time, similar to the orbit

 

[Stephanie11]

I think your lighting schedule is too dramatic. Ramp up and down faster. They are only getting max for 1.5 hours at 40%. At 100% those leds only drive at 2.2 w per led. So at 40% you are driving those leds at less than 1w. Yes probably 104 leds total, but I don't think that's enough. I run mine ramp only an hour or two to max, maybe 50-60% blues 30-40% whites. Just blues first and last 30 min.

Also your tank need to get used to your lights. The different spectrums your lights give off will make different micro organisms flourish or not.

Just some thoughts. I have two mixed reefs running with these lights. Zoas, softies to sps, all fine and growing.

 

[NanaReefer]

I'm running the Reef Radiance LumenTek Pro 180. More diodes but same. I too have a major hot spot dead center. After 9 months, still can't put anything in that area. Hopefully my new T.Maxima will enjoy the intensity.
These lights are STRONG! I'm running my whites at 12% max and blues 55% max. Whites come on at 10am ramp up/down off at 4pm. Blues on at 9am ramp up/down off at 7pm. So far this seems to be the sweet setting. All my corals LPS/SPS are doing quite well. But if I even try to turn the whites at or above 20% everything begins to fade. I even bleached the tops of my 5yr old X-Mas Favia. Healed now but it took moving it to the very far side and several months.

 

[jzaso]

`I would say you are a bit low on intensity-but you have alot of animals in there with very different light requirements slow acclimation process with leds here is where I,am now 11 months down the road (90gl sps 2 x 165w full spectrum boxes 90deg optics also run 4 x 54w t-5s as supplementation(color)
my last intensity adjustment was two months ago and no changes planned going foreward-non ramping 80%blue channel 70% white channel-I use certain corals as indicators of light levels one being a green slimer the other a natusa constant glowing growth tips is what I want to see and I had to be above 50% on both channels to make that happen-lights 10.5" above water-it took three months to acclimate my maxima clam- bleached badly initially when I changed over from 550+watts of t-5 to leds but seems to thrive now actually lives in the shade under large seritopora

 

[g6gang]

I think your lighting schedule is too dramatic. Ramp up and down faster. They are only getting max for 1.5 hours at 40%. At 100% those leds only drive at 2.2 w per led. So at 40% you are driving those leds at less than 1w. Yes probably 104 leds total, but I don't think that's enough. I run mine ramp only an hour or two to max, maybe 50-60% blues 30-40% whites. Just blues first and last 30 min.

Also your tank need to get used to your lights. The different spectrums your lights give off will make different micro organisms flourish or not.

Just some thoughts. I have two mixed reefs running with these lights. Zoas, softies to sps, all fine and growing.

I was questioning the ramp up down length as well. I thought it would be more 'natural'. I am going to try and change the ramp period and make the max intensity last longer before i do naything else. i think that is probably the least risky.

Here is my new schedule (basically 5hr max intensity - probably still could make it longer - but will do this for a week/two then make it longer):

 

[hart24601]

I was running reefbreeders value fixtures, pretty much same leds. I ran 2 units (110 led) over my 65 at 100% all for 14hr blue, 12 white. I put 3 over my 120 (165 3w led) and ran them all 100%, same photoperiod. So I think you need to run them higher intensity.

 

[Luisreef]

I don't understand how people run there intensity from 80 to 100 I burnt my sps coral at 50 percent with a kessil a160 I dropped my lighting even more to 30 percent

 

[hart24601]

That’s interesting, I run a kessil a160 over a 3 gallon pico cube not far off the water (under 6”). I run it at 100% for 12 hour a day! I really don’t think the livestock would do well in the pico at 30%.

 

[Dana Riddle]

I don't think the ramping up of light will have much negative effect. Zooxanthellae, if adjusted to a new lighting regimen, can react to changes in lighting quickly (minutes) - think of what a tide pool coral does when the sun suddenly appears on a cloudy day. I see advice ranging from light is too high or too low. I tend to think the lights are too high off the water. Beg, borrow, or liberate some sort of light measuring device and the issue could be settled quickly. That's a beautiful tank!

 

[Fir3ant]

That’s interesting, I run a kessil a160 over a 3 gallon pico cube not far off the water (under 6”). I run it at 100% for 12 hour a day! I really don’t think the livestock would do well in the pico at 30%.

Really? U run it at 100 percent? I just bought a Kessil light and wondering if I could run it that high

 

[Fir3ant]

I don't understand how people run there intensity from 80 to 100 I burnt my sps coral at 50 percent with a kessil a160 I dropped my lighting even more to 30 percent

An I was gonna run my lights over 50 percent so u didn’t have any luck with them that high?

 

[Bpb]

Dana said it. Everyone is saying turn up or turn down with absolutely zero reference to Make those recommendations. Saying turn up or turn down your lights based on pictures and words (or even visible brightness/color) is akin to assigning an alkalinity value based on a taste test. You need to actually measure light output before you go making adjustments. Borrow a par meter

 

[proxy001]

Let me save you some time... People are throwing numbers with different lights, different production years, different tanks (reflectivity), different mounting height, different programs.
That is way too many variables.
I am struggling with correct settings on my radions. At this point I dont know if I have too much or too little light.
Looking at corals doesn't really help because they have a delayed response, they have different requirements, different placement and flow interferes in the combo.
==> Buy/Rent a PAR meter.

I think we have enough variables in the hobby to skip on the easiest most steady one.
At least that is what I did.