Coral Boring Spionid Worms -- an ugly bane to SPS

jDoSe

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 5, 2021
Messages
269
Reaction score
226
Location
usa
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Can a shrimp of some sort grab /eat them?
Not that anyone has found yet.

Only animal predator is possibly a specific nudibranch, but it’ll never be for sale anywhere.

People think bumblebee snails may, since it is possible for them to eat vermentid snails. However, this seems almost impossible. They’d have to climb on the coral tissue itself. No evidence anywhere of one even attempting to eat a single spionid.
 

ISpeakForTheSeas

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 22, 2021
Messages
6,378
Reaction score
7,690
Location
United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Can a shrimp of some sort grab /eat them?
I’m not sure. I’d imagine you would need something that could follow them into their burrows for the predation to be effective though, as these guys have been shown to be partially eaten by things like killifish only to regenerate without issue on a regular basis in the wild (with specimens typically losing ~13-24% of their bodies and regenerating completely within ~2 weeks). I’d guess there are some predatory worms that might be effective against these guys, but (like the nudibranch mentioned above) you’d have a tough time finding one even if you knew which species to look for.
 
OP
OP
Biologic

Biologic

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
369
Reaction score
269
Location
USA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
imo this is a very underrated pest.

People care if sellers sell acro frags with aefw or red bugs, but to me these are FAR worse...
As far as I am aware, nothing gets rid of them. A few people mentioned interceptor (like for red bugs), but I have no idea where they got any evidence of that actually working. You pretty much need a full-tank treatment, because these will inhabit liverock.

If anyone has this really bad and want's to try something, let me know...I have something i'd like to test that is cheap and easy. I don't want to post anything experimental because if it doesn't work, I don't want someone to try it years from now and have it kill their entire tank.

thanks for the recognition!

I did get an Rx for Interceptor, but haven’t gotten it filled yet.

I agree. They are not harmful but they are not good. They are annoying and ugly like Vermentids.
 

Hairyteeth

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
644
Reaction score
713
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
They definitely, without a doubt, bore into acropora.
Or...I guess it's possible reproduce inside the coral skeleton then bore a tunnel out. Either way, they definitely bore inside the acro skeleton.
They definitely reproduce in the skeleton and bore out, I have groups in sps that multiply and new heads poke out right next to the group slowly spreading
 

Nburg's Reef

High-Rise Reefer
View Badges
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
1,625
Reaction score
1,865
Location
Washington, DC
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
BRS chiller guide?

I am convinced that Bumblebee snails don't do diddly. I have a 50 gallon tank. I bought 13 of them. I have plenty of vermented snails to prove it. They are actually the only snails I have. I use urchins otherwise.
I think its the mythical cure all to all sessile pests, lol.
 

Rick5

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
541
Reaction score
548
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I think its the mythical cure all to all sessile pests, lol.
Bumblebee snails alongside Coral Snow. I’ve nearly always kept emeralds too (not for that purpose) but I’m told they sometimes eat vermetids.
 

Hairyteeth

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
644
Reaction score
713
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
nope I have plenty of those lazy snails. They don’t do anything.
They definitely eat vermetid snails for me, maybe not as fast as they breed… but eating these worms I don’t think they could get the whole thing if they tried
 

Nburg's Reef

High-Rise Reefer
View Badges
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
1,625
Reaction score
1,865
Location
Washington, DC
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Bumblebee snails alongside Coral Snow. I’ve nearly always kept emeralds too (not for that purpose) but I’m told they sometimes eat vermetids.
If anything eats vermatids, I think it’s emeralds. Maybe it’s coincidence but since I got 2 huge emerald crabs, I haven’t seen as many small vermatids. Could just be maturing reef but who knows.
 
OP
OP
Biologic

Biologic

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
369
Reaction score
269
Location
USA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
https://youtube.com/shorts/U31Nsi8ItmE?feature=share

^^video above

ok so a bit of an update. This issue doesn’t resolve itself without intervention. I haven’t treated the tank with interceptor because life is too busy right now. I want to share this is what happens when this goes unresolved. It spreads everywhere. Even to the rocks. Growing in coralline.

I’ve seen some silly ideas of injecting H2O2 into them, which would be a fools errand. When life slows down, I am going to try interceptor. Has anyone else had success using interceptor or other methods?

Otherwise, this tank is basically contaminated. Irredeemable. I couldn’t even take corals out by frags, they could be anywhere.
 

mfollen

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Messages
2,142
Reaction score
1,736
Location
Chicago, IL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Do you find that they spread though the system or water column? Or just through the rock?
 
OP
OP
Biologic

Biologic

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
369
Reaction score
269
Location
USA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Do you find that they spread though the system or water column? Or just through the rock?

According to a source I found on UC Berkley,
"Many polychaetes hatch from their eggs into a particular type of planktonic larva, the trochophore, which later metamorphoses into a juvenile annelid. Some polychaetes, however, can reproduce asexually, by budding."

So within the coral itself, they are boring and budding inside the skeleton. But there are some other places in the tank its possible platonic larvae landed, such as the rock structure. Boring into coralline and forming tunnels. Being that they are planktonic in nature, it's probably a good idea to use a fine filter mesh.

What can predict their multiplication is TON (Total Organic Nitrogen) -- See study below. So dosing Amino Acids and Nitrates is probably a pretty bad idea in light of an infestation. Using a fine filter mesh could also reduce TON and reduce planktonic reproduction.

Patterns of polychaete worm infestation of stony corals in the northern Red Sea and relationships to water chemistry​


Coral reefs of the northern Red Sea are biodiverse and rich in endemisms, but also
fragile and susceptible to stress by natural and anthropogenic disturbances. Colo- nies of several genera of reef-building stony corals at Eilat (Israeli Red Sea) recently have become infested with boring spionid polychaete worms, the presence of which has induced skeletal aberrations on corals. Of 656 corals examined, 218 (33.2%) were infested with boring spionid worms. The percent of infested coral colonies in the coral genera Leptastrea and Porites was significantly correlated with the con- centration of total oxidized nitrogen (TON, NO2 + NO3) in the water column. TON levels also significantly predicted the likelihood of colony infestation in the corals Leptastrea, Pavona, and Porites, and the likelihood of skeletal aberration in Porites. high abundances of coral-boring polychaetes have been reported in other reef areas close to organic waste discharges. we conclude that anthropogenic nitrogen enrich- ment of waters surrounding coral reefs at Eilat may have caused corals to become vulnerable to infestation by boring spionid polychaetes, resulting in coral skeleton aberrations and increased susceptibility to damage by storms.




I have great news that someone has previously battled this issue. They used Interceptor. Another poster used Bayer. See this link.


So likely this is the route I am going to go before doing more dramatic things like doing a full Bayer Dip on the entire tank. LOL. Which would be a pain and absolute last resort. Regardless of what path, all inverts have to come out.
 

Charlie’s Frags

Follow me on Instagram @Charlies Frags
View Badges
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
6,138
Reaction score
9,473
Location
Houston
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
According to a source I found on UC Berkley,


So within the coral itself, they are boring and budding inside the skeleton. But there are some other places in the tank its possible platonic larvae landed, such as the rock structure. Boring into coralline and forming tunnels. Being that they are planktonic in nature, it's probably a good idea to use a fine filter mesh.

What can predict their multiplication is TON (Total Organic Nitrogen) -- See study below. So dosing Amino Acids and Nitrates is probably a pretty bad idea in light of an infestation. Using a fine filter mesh could also reduce TON and reduce planktonic reproduction.






I have great news that someone has previously battled this issue. They used Interceptor. Another poster used Bayer. See this link.



So likely this is the route I am going to go before doing more dramatic things like doing a full Bayer Dip on the entire tank. LOL. Which would be a pain and absolute last resort. Regardless of what path, all inverts have to come out.
Just shrimp and crabs need to come out. Snails will be fine. It’s so easy to do. Remove carbon and any other similar media. Remove your skimmer cup and turn off uv sterilizer and turn uv settings on your lights to 0. I’ve done 2 large pills in my 50g tank with zero problems.
 
OP
OP
Biologic

Biologic

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
369
Reaction score
269
Location
USA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I was going to suggest ivermectin but you won't be able to keep inverts (shrimp, crabs, pods) for 6-12 months as it is THAT toxic. Ask me how I know :rolleyes:...

that’s pretty incredible. I have three urchins, one skunk cleaner shrimp, and one emerald crab. So that would stink setting up a secondary tank would stink. I would nice to see my Vermented snails kick the dust.
 

sculpin01

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 20, 2020
Messages
840
Reaction score
668
Location
Greenville
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
If milbemycin doesn't work, set up a small temporary tank and try ivermectin. You can buy it off Amazon, so it's readily available.
 

Reefahholic

Acropora Farmer
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
7,435
Reaction score
6,235
Location
Houston, TX
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I agree that I wish there was a way to rid our tanks of these but I’ve never had/seen them on the original frag part of the coral I’m not convinced that they actually bore into corals. More that corals encrust over them.

I’m not sure if these are the same thing, but for sure they bore into the coral.

Photo credit: @PSXerholic

51919009-4A25-4902-804E-D6885633AFC0.jpeg


53E42064-B09C-461B-A222-2B8707926EAD.jpeg
 

Reefahholic

Acropora Farmer
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
7,435
Reaction score
6,235
Location
Houston, TX
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
These are what I have and they have survived Bayer and Coral RX Pro. I even cut their little tubes off and basted into the coral well.

Photo Credit: preef

38904E76-87BA-469B-97DE-E22065AD77AB.png
9180F1B8-94E3-4EC0-8A67-40819F6BEF46.jpeg
9BD13794-4400-4669-B014-9DCFD28D5715.jpeg
 
OP
OP
Biologic

Biologic

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
369
Reaction score
269
Location
USA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
These are what I have and they have survived Bayer and Coral RX Pro. I even cut their little tubes off and basted into the coral well.

Photo Credit: preef

38904E76-87BA-469B-97DE-E22065AD77AB.png
9180F1B8-94E3-4EC0-8A67-40819F6BEF46.jpeg
9BD13794-4400-4669-B014-9DCFD28D5715.jpeg

Yep. This is absolutely what I have. Shocking -- they survived Bayer? I dipped them in KCl, and nothing.

They grow in coralline for God sakes.

The only think I can think of trying next is anti-parasitic like Interceptor or Ivermectin.
 
Last edited:

KrisReef

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
May 15, 2018
Messages
11,744
Reaction score
27,626
Location
ADX Florence
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Yep. This is absolutely what I have. Shocking -- they survived Bayer? I dipped them in KCl, and nothing.

They grow in coralline for God sakes.

The only think I can think of trying next is anti-parasitic like Interceptor or Ivermectin.
I think these are fairly protected living inside of coral skeletons. I have seen them inside of SPS colony, they survived dips and killed the colony fairly quickly. They leave a hollowed out spot inside the skeleton, if you snip an arm off infected arms will have a spot going through the middle. Totally remind me of coral termites. I wounder if they could be killed with ultra sound?

test crash GIF
 

Keeping it clean: Have you used a filter roller?

  • I currently use a filter roller.

    Votes: 75 35.0%
  • I don’t currently use a filter roller, but I have in the past.

    Votes: 7 3.3%
  • I have never used a filter roller, but I plan to in the future.

    Votes: 58 27.1%
  • I have never used a filter roller and have no plans to in the future.

    Votes: 66 30.8%
  • Other.

    Votes: 8 3.7%
Back
Top