Corals stressed after GHA cleaning

greg1786 · Sep 5, 2021

I have been battling a moderate hair algae outbreak for a little more than a month now. Friday morning I took a 1/2" python hose and attached my cleaning toothbrush to one end and an old sock to the other end clamped to the sump. I scrubbed and siphoned a ton of the hair algae out. Saturday morning all of my corals (mostly acro frags) were all extremely stressed looking, no polyp extension and rapidly paling in color. They are not much better today, however the largest frags and the lps seem to be starting to recover. Any thoughts on what would have caused this? Params are all normal, no temp swings or any dramatic changes at all except the algae removal. It did cloud the water for a few hours afterwards but it was a substantial cleaning session so it was relatively normal from blowing off the rocks. thanks for taking a look

Timfish · Sep 5, 2021

I occasionally have done the same with no apperent ill effects but after learning about algae DOC and it;s harmful effects on corals I've stopped. Algae dump DOCs (a significant portion is hydrophilic and won't be removed by skimmers) into the water that are detrimental to corals. Most likely there is also cyano on the algae which alos releases DOC detrimental to corals. Scraping and siphoning algae into a sock and recycling the water may physically remove a lot of the algae but it potentially is leaving a lot of the DOC in the water or potentially releasing additional DOCs into the water. Many people including myself have done this without any ill effects. But an unknown variable is the amount of cryptic sponges in a system that process DOC s vary quickly and how much DOCs are actually released. I would suggest doing increased water changes and just manual removal along with urchins to control algae. Steel straws can help siphon out algae.

t5Nitro · Sep 5, 2021

I used to have a bad GHA problem which seems to have diminished significantly as the tank matured, but I used to siphon out loads of it at a time. Similarly to your experience, my tank would definitely look worse in the next several days following a cleaning. Has to be some sort of bio imbalance. This is anecdotal, but I stopped messing with the tank at some point and quit doing water changes, fed a lot and started adding live phyto daily. Maybe it was just time, but the tank looks better than ever. Now when I mess with something, or do a water change, or change carbon, I'll get a cyano bloom.

anthonygf · Sep 5, 2021

When I removed all my GHA my nitrates and phosphates shot up pretty quick, No3 was 5 and went to 25, Po4 was 0,04 and went up to 0.121ppm. Do you think something like this happened to you but on a bigger scale? Did you measure No3 and Po4 before and after removing GHA?

t5Nitro · Sep 5, 2021

If his tank responded like mine did. Even the next day the nutrients would be falsely low with reads at 0 again. Not sure how mine were immediately after siphoning, but the amount of algae in the tank probably just takes off with the transient rise in nutrients. By the next day, you've bottomed out to 0s which probably stresses the coral more.

Not saying thats the right answer either. My nitrate still today reads 0 and phos pretty low at 0.03. I give small doses of each every morning. I think avoiding those large swings helps, though.

greg1786 · Sep 6, 2021

Thanks for the insight guys. I did measure po4 and no3 before and after but the after was roughly 6 hours later and they measured the same both times. No3 was just a tick over 1.1ppm and po4 was .01ppm. the nutrients in the tank have been relatively low for the entire life of the system so far and so I'm not sure what is fueling the hair algae to begin with.

Im going to perform a 20% water change today hopefully to help with any of the DOCs that mat bave been released timfish. Unfortunately im afraid some of the acro frags may not recover at this point but only time will tell.

Thanks again for the great responses guys

anthonygf · Sep 6, 2021

Water change won't hurt. Maybe increase your No3 and Po4 dosage a little more. I don't need to dose my 75 anymore, I feed heavy, quality flake food twice a day, 30m phyto and 20m zooplankton once daily, Oyster and Roti feast 5m each every 3 days. Ten gallon water change every week. I have 8 fish, YT, two 3 stripe damsels, two clowns, 1 filefish, 1 flame hawk and 1 BG Chromis. Ten inch squamosa. I just noticed you joined R2R in 2012. How long have you been reefing? Share some photos please.

My 46g bowfront running 4 years just before upgrading to 75 last October. Second is 6 months after and then 6 months again. I glued many of the frags on the rack to the right. Everything is filling in nicely.

Hope yours recovers and I think it will.

anthonygf · Sep 6, 2021

Sorry for the double images, that happens when editing I guess.

greg1786 · Sep 6, 2021

Your tank looks great . What is the light you're running in between the two kessils? I have been keeping reef tanks for about 10 years or so. This system is brand new though. I went from a standard 125 gallon set up to a custom glass cages rimless tank roughly 100gallons 6ft long 18in wide but much more shallow i think the 125 was 21 inches tall and this tank is only 16" tall. I set the tank up in november of 2020. I didnt bring any sand or liverock from my old system, it was all dry rock and dry sand from BRS so i cant imagine its a situation where the rock or sand is leaching trapped po4. I suppose it could be silicates? My bioload is also relatively low, i have a purple tang, diamond goby, pair of clowns, bluestripe pipefish, mandarin, starry blenny, lawnmower blenny, and a firefish. I do like you're idea of giving the system live phyto on a regular basis. I feed NLS pellets, Larrys reef frenzy, rods polyp poppers (fish eggs), and live baby brine occasionally. Since ive been unable to get my nutrients up i also use acropower twice a week. I run a ball of red ogo in my fuge but recently over the last few weeks since the hair algae really took off its been outcompeting the ogo ive had a bit of die off. Heres a few photos

anthonygf · Sep 6, 2021

Thank you. The light in the center is a Cobalt C-Ray 200, I like it better than the Kessil AP700. I found a good deal on eBay, $340 each. I liked it so much I bought the last one he had. I don't think they make them anymore, not very popular. I see 2 listed on eBay for $540. I like your setup. What do you have for a CUC? I had over 300 snails in my system mostly small from reefcleaners.com. Some snails are like .15 cents each so you can get around 400 for your system. As you know it will get better as the tank matures.

I don't know if you are aware of this tool you can make. It will help in removing the algea. A 1/4" stainless steel straw stuffed inside a 1/2" hose, create a suction and scrape/suck out the algae into you filter sock or box like what I have. You can remove lots of pests with this. If you suck out aiptasia don't reuse the water.

anthonygf · Sep 6, 2021

I don't care for the light spill onto the wall that is why my lights are so close to the water line. I don't like mounts or wire attached to the ceiling so I made a light stand out of a coat rack. I can slide out the stand from the left side and swing it around to work on the tank. I don't mind the looks of it.

t5Nitro · Sep 6, 2021

Your tank looks like mine man, and I think we set them up about similar times with dry rock. It's a mess, huh? You constantly battle low nutrients, likely very efficiently being used by current GHA to produce more GHA. Can dose all you want and barely get any numbers to move and risk dosing too much and really set off a GHA flare into overdrive. Constant battle. I'm doing the same thing now, trying to tweak nitrate and phos dosing. I would definitely try adding live phyto 30ml a day to that tank and see how you like it after a month. I don't have a great answer other than I agree the uphill battle of having a clean looking tank with nutrients free in the column for corals to feed on seems to be make-believe, lol.

t5Nitro · Sep 6, 2021

Will add that acropower makes the corals look awesome, I intermittently use it too, but that stuff really seems to ramp up GHA and cyano in my tank. I use it occasionally just because I have it yet.

greg1786 · Sep 6, 2021

I have a decent cleanup crew. II actually just grabbed some more snails and hermits at my LFS yesterday. large serpent star, 3 pincushion urchins, two fighting conchs, pencil urchin, 4 lettuce nudis, 6 mexican turbos, 12 nass snails, 24 nerites, 36 ceriths, 12 trochus, and about 72 assorted reef hermits ranging from very tiny to about small/medium.

I actually posted this in an algae id thread last week because I couldn't get ay o my cleanup crew to touch it and it had me concerned it wasn't GHA but maybe something worse. In hindsight I think it was just the fact that when it grows so rapidly the cleanup crew can eat the longer strands. Since I knocked it way back the other day and its mostly small or short strands/tufts my snails and hermits are definitely working on it now.

I did not know about the stainless straw technique until you guys mentioned it but i already placed an order on amazon for some of them, looks very promising. I like the concept better than the toothbrush technique because I am not a huge fan of "scrubbing" in the tank. It definitely works but also is prob part of the reason my corals have reacted so poorly. It is not just scraping the algae off the rock and removing it but basically exploding it for lack of a better term. Sort of makes me think of how aiptasia spread, rip it out but any pieces that remain in the water column will attach and become ten new ones lol.

T5Nitro- your last post is exactly my situation to a T over the last month or so. Ive had quite a few systems over the years and dealt with a range of pests but I have to be honest, this GHA outbreak is definitely one of the biggest pains in the neck man. What phyto do you guys use? I was thinking of getting it from algae barn but would prefer to hear some opinions on what you guys use and what you like first.

Thanks again for the conversation guys I very much appreciate it.

anthonygf · Sep 6, 2021

I got rid of all my hermits because they destroyed my branching Monti, they would all gather up on it and break branches off. I remove them and the next day they are back with some others. It got to the point I had like a dozen inside the branches and when removing them i broke it down further, that is why I have a dozen frags and even gave some to a friend. This was about the time I upgraded to 75. You can see where some of the branches broke off.

t5Nitro · Sep 6, 2021

I had been getting the phyto from my LFS, but ill PM you a name on here you can get it from and where I'll be getting mine from here on.

anthonygf · Sep 6, 2021

greg1786 said:
I have a decent cleanup crew. II actually just grabbed some more snails and hermits at my LFS yesterday. large serpent star, 3 pincushion urchins, two fighting conchs, pencil urchin, 4 lettuce nudis, 6 mexican turbos, 12 nass snails, 24 nerites, 36 ceriths, 12 trochus, and about 72 assorted reef hermits ranging from very tiny to about small/medium.

I actually posted this in an algae id thread last week because I couldn't get ay o my cleanup crew to touch it and it had me concerned it wasn't GHA but maybe something worse. In hindsight I think it was just the fact that when it grows so rapidly the cleanup crew can eat the longer strands. Since I knocked it way back the other day and its mostly small or short strands/tufts my snails and hermits are definitely working on it now.

I did not know about the stainless straw technique until you guys mentioned it but i already placed an order on amazon for some of them, looks very promising. I like the concept better than the toothbrush technique because I am not a huge fan of "scrubbing" in the tank. It definitely works but also is prob part of the reason my corals have reacted so poorly. It is not just scraping the algae off the rock and removing it but basically exploding it for lack of a better term. Sort of makes me think of how aiptasia spread, rip it out but any pieces that remain in the water column will attach and become ten new ones lol.

T5Nitro- your last post is exactly my situation to a T over the last month or so. Ive had quite a few systems over the years and dealt with a range of pests but I have to be honest, this GHA outbreak is definitely one of the biggest pains in the neck man. What phyto do you guys use? I was thinking of getting it from algae barn but would prefer to hear some opinions on what you guys use and what you like first.

Thanks again for the conversation guys I very much appreciate it.

You do know all those hermits will need bigger homes, so now you need to stock up on empty shells or they will kill your snails for them.

greg1786 · Sep 6, 2021

Thats crazy that they would gather in your monti like that. If they ever began damaging my coral they would be removed immediately as well. I have about 50 or so extra shells scattered around the tank of various sizes.

t5Nitro · Sep 6, 2021

I've had a problem keeping most of the inverts alive long-term. Not sure if you guys have ran into that issue in the past. Not sure if they're eating a type of algae or cyano that's toxic to them or if something is off with something unmeasurable in water supply not reading as TDS or something. Snails don't live long at all, weeks. I have 2 tuxedo urchins for about a year now still going strong. It's really difficult to add a snail crew when they just don't survive. Turbos get real slow-to-move and then die. Then you've got what must be a release of a lot of nutrients from dying snails all over the tank, which seemed to have sent my last GHA flare up into overdrive, so keep that in mind too. Maybe if you see them dying off you should remove them from the tank quicker than I do.