Could my LFS test results be off?

[liamelias]

This weekend I lost 2 clowns on the same night. Shrimp, hermits, snails, conchs all fine. Ammonia and Nitrite were 0. Went to my LFS to get a second opinion. They did a spin test and API. Ammonia and Nitrite were 0.1 on the spin test but they showed me the API and Ammonia was reading 1ppm. They said my tank just had an ammonia spike and killed my fish…Sold me new bottled bacteria and told me to do an 80% water change.
I get home and ammonia was 0 and nitrite 0.1 on RedSea tests. I think my slight nitrite spike was just because my fish sat dead for about 12 hours overnight and started decaying, not because of an ammonia spike otherwise it would’ve affected my inverts.
My LFS’s Phosphate came back at 4.3 (which was odd.) and Alkalinity at 6. My tests were 0.14 for Phos and 7.9 for ALK on Hanna Checker Tests.
I know my tests are new and are very reliable and recommended by most experienced hobbyists. Could my LFS results have messed up that much?

 

[ilikefish69]

This weekend I lost 2 clowns on the same night. Shrimp, hermits, snails, conchs all fine. Ammonia and Nitrite were 0. Went to my LFS to get a second opinion. They did a spin test and API. Ammonia and Nitrite were 0.1 but they showed me the API and Ammonia was reading 1ppm. They said my tank just had an ammonia spike and killed my fish…Sold me new bottled bacteria and told me to do an 80% water change.
I get home and ammonia was 0 and nitrite 0.1 on RedSea tests. I think this was just because my fish sat dead for about 12 hours overnight, not because of an ammonia spike otherwise it would’ve affected my inverts.
My LFS’s Phosphate came back at 4.3 (which was odd.) and Alkalinity at 6. My tests were 0.14 for Phos and 7.9 for ALK on Hanna Checker Tests.
I know my tests are new and are very reliable and recommended by most experienced hobbyists. Could my LFS results have messed up that much?

Yes, very much so. API phosphate test is absolutely useless. Ammonia can be affected by other things than ammonia. If you have Hanna testers and have done the test correctly, I would rely on that. The other option is to send in an ICP test.

a little more info on the tank, what is the size, age, filtration, flow, lights, any other fish and if so we’re they acting different?

a picture of the tank also helpful

 

[liamelias]

Yes, very much so. API phosphate test is absolutely useless. Ammonia can be affected by other things than ammonia. If you have Hanna testers and have done the test correctly, I would rely on that. The other option is to send in an ICP test.

a little more info on the tank, what is the size, age, filtration, flow, lights, any other fish and if so we’re they acting different?

a picture of the tank also helpful

Yes, very much so. API phosphate test is absolutely useless. Ammonia can be affected by other things than ammonia. If you have Hanna testers and have done the test correctly, I would rely on that. The other option is to send in an ICP test.

a little more info on the tank, what is the size, age, filtration, flow, lights, any other fish and if so we’re they acting different?

a picture of the tank also helpful

My tank is 20Gallon. I have a Filter Floss cup, fluval heater, return pump, AI prime for 8 hrs and Tunze ATO. The tank is 6 weeks old. I let it cycle with Dr. Tims for 3 weeks. Ammonia dose of 2ppm was clearing in 24 hours.
After 3 weeks i added my two nano clowns with a hermit. A week later introduced 4 snails and a conch. My clowns were eating and swimming normally for the 3 weeks I had them. Never showed weird behavior leading up to their death. My cleaner shrimp, hermit, 2 nessarius and 2 margarite snails and conch all alive and doing well.

 

[ilikefish69]

That is a nice looking tank, I am sorry about your fish

did you make any changes , water change, additives, right before you noticed the shift in clown behavior? The most important and most overlooked are temp and salinity. With the ATO you should keep salinity stable, do you have a heater controller?

 

[vetteguy53081]

My tank is 20Gallon. I have a Filter Floss cup, fluval heater, return pump, AI prime for 8 hrs and Tunze ATO. The tank is 6 weeks old. I let it cycle with Dr. Tims for 3 weeks. Ammonia dose of 2ppm was clearing in 24 hours.
After 3 weeks i added my two nano clowns with a hermit. A week later introduced 4 snails and a conch. My clowns were eating and swimming normally for the 3 weeks I had them. Never showed weird behavior leading up to their death. My cleaner shrimp, hermit, 2 nessarius and 2 margarite snails and conch all alive and doing well.

Generally, once you add ammonia chloride, you want to monitor ammonia, and When your ammonia is steady at zero for 5 days and Nitrate is steady at 20 or below- You are cycled. Ignore nitrIte Unless sky high
The tank will go through two phases in which ammonia will rise then fall and nitrate will rise and fall which is normal. When fish are added, the bacteria population will increase with the new bio load, converting waste to nitrate.
Overloading tank with too many fish up front will exceed what the bacteria can handle which is why its best to stock fish slowly over the next few months.
You stocked in a reasonable time but you want to assure youre not getting spikes testing with reliable test kits. If your LFS is using kit like Api, you will want to take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at
Pics would have been helpful to see fish when they were alive but like you said - No warning s

Were they breathing normal or labored?
Any loss of color?
Loss of appetite?

 

[liamelias]

That is a nice looking tank, I am sorry about your fish

did you make any changes , water change, additives, right before you noticed the shift in clown behavior? The most important and most overlooked are temp and salinity. With the ATO you should keep salinity stable, do you have a heater controller?

*** dead fish pics below***
Thank you so much. I made a 20% wc 5 days before as part of my biweekly wc. The water was heated to same temperature and salinity. I don’t have a temperature controller unfortunately just the thermostat on the heater and my thermometer. Which was always reading at 78°.F. No additives or food change. The only thing that was different was the addition of the conch 4 days before to help with diatom control since I started getting on the sand. I noticed the conch they sold me was on a larger tank with very mature and large clowns and tangs. Could it have brought in a parasite or pest? Feel terrible I could’ve avoided if I had a QT.
The only thing I noticed was one of my clowns was pale that night before I went to bed and swimming in place at the bottom. Lights were off so i thought his color was just the lights being off. My other clown was swimming at the top but he does that often.

 

[liamelias]

Generally, once you add ammonia chloride, you want to monitor ammonia, and When your ammonia is steady at zero for 5 days and Nitrate is steady at 20 or below- You are cycled. Ignore nitrIte Unless sky high
The tank will go through two phases in which ammonia will rise then fall and nitrate will rise and fall which is normal. When fish are added, the bacteria population will increase with the new bio load, converting waste to nitrate.
Overloading tank with too many fish up front will exceed what the bacteria can handle which is why its best to stock fish slowly over the next few months.
You stocked in a reasonable time but you want to assure youre not getting spikes testing with reliable test kits. If your LFS is using kit like Api, you will want to take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at
Pics would have been helpful to see fish when they were alive but like you said - No warning s

Were they breathing normal or labored?
Any loss of color?
Loss of appetite?

Thank you for the response. That’s correct my ammonia stayed steady at 0 for more than a week. My nitrites took a little longer to show up and come down but they also did. I made sure both were 0 for that week before adding my two nano clowns. I use the Red Sea test kits for Ammonia and Nitrite. I have confirmed their accuracy by dosing 2ppm of ammonium chloride to a cup of saltwater and i got an accurate reading. The clowns were breathing fine and their color was vibrant. On the last day I noticed they ignored the pellets after 4-5 of them, but sometimes they do that. The night when they passed, I noticed one was pale and swimming in place by the sand, but i thought his color was just because the room was dark and he liked to hang by that spot sometimes. The only change was the addition of a fighting conch 4 days before. I noticed the conch was on a larger mature tank with large clowns and tangs, not sure if it could’ve brought a disease into the tank. My LFS is pretty reputable and has great reviews so not blaming them. But can’t help but wonder.

 

[liamelias]

Thank you for the response. That’s correct my ammonia stayed steady at 0 for more than a week. My nitrites took a little longer to show up and come down but they also did. I made sure both were 0 for that week before adding my two nano clowns. I use the Red Sea test kits for Ammonia and Nitrite. I have confirmed their accuracy by dosing 2ppm of ammonium chloride to a cup of saltwater and i got an accurate reading. The clowns were breathing fine and their color was vibrant. On the last day I noticed they ignored the pellets after 4-5 of them, but sometimes they do that. The night when they passed, I noticed one was pale and swimming in place by the sand, but i thought his color was just because the room was dark and he liked to hang by that spot sometimes. The only change was the addition of a fighting conch 4 days before. I noticed the conch was on a larger mature tank with large clowns and tangs, not sure if it could’ve brought a disease into the tank. My LFS is pretty reputable and has great reviews so not blaming them. But can’t help but wonder.

This video was the day I added the conch. You can actually see my clowns swimming by it. 4 days before their passing

 

[vetteguy53081]

This video was the day I added the conch. You can actually see my clowns swimming by it. 4 days before their passing

Unfortunately, video was a few seconds and dark due to heavy blue light

 

[srobertb]

This weekend I lost 2 clowns on the same night. Shrimp, hermits, snails, conchs all fine. Ammonia and Nitrite were 0. Went to my LFS to get a second opinion. They did a spin test and API. Ammonia and Nitrite were 0.1 on the spin test but they showed me the API and Ammonia was reading 1ppm. They said my tank just had an ammonia spike and killed my fish…Sold me new bottled bacteria and told me to do an 80% water change.
I get home and ammonia was 0 and nitrite 0.1 on RedSea tests. I think my slight nitrite spike was just because my fish sat dead for about 12 hours overnight and started decaying, not because of an ammonia spike otherwise it would’ve affected my inverts.
My LFS’s Phosphate came back at 4.3 (which was odd.) and Alkalinity at 6. My tests were 0.14 for Phos and 7.9 for ALK on Hanna Checker Tests.
I know my tests are new and are very reliable and recommended by most experienced hobbyists. Could my LFS results have messed up that much?

The quicker you learn that 99.999999% of fish stores have no interest in anything other than selling you crap, the better off you will be. Profit margins are razor thin and BRS is crushing them- note the hardware they sell for 20% over retail. Go on FB or whatever and find a local reefing group. There’s always someone who will help with testing.