Could this be why I've been losing SPS?

[Hemmdog]

I've seriously done so much better I feel with taking out filter socks. I run my frag/holding tank with just LR and a skimmer and I feel things are so much healthier with stuff in the water column for the acros

I agree 1000%

 

[vetteguy53081]

I would bring temp down one degree, salinity down I point as it will increase with evaporation, and calc up a tad.
You need to get a water sample to trusted LFS and see where your level is at. Have them verify salinity also. Water flow- How much current are you providing? SPS requires med to med/strong flow and lighting should be heavy on blue and about 18% whites. Too strong of light will cause unhappiness with SPS

Detrious is a product of waste and support of ecosystem in bedding

 

[LimestoneCowboy]

Thoughts that your water changes as dosing strategy are amplifying your daily all swings and over time this might be stressing sps?

 

[MARK M. DAVIS]

Do you Triton test? Maybe baseline. Export for nitrates and phosphates? Testing data trends?

 

[MARK M. DAVIS]

Algae in your tank? No coralline is typical of low mg

 

[Aktric1]

stability stability stability.. I'm no pro but if you have kept things the same then you have other problems

 

[Jordan Prather]

I have .81 phosphate:confused: working on getting them down my sps is still alive just not growing. I dont think that is your issue

 

[Crustaceon]

Ok, here we go...

I wouldn’t do any water changes until you know your nitrate level and seeing detritus isn’t an indication of a nitrate issue. As this stuff breaks down, it releases nitrates into the water column until it has finished breaking down. It’s simply not an infinite nitrate source. Also, the problem
with dosing via water change is that each time you do water change, you’re pulling out nitrates and phosphates. If you’re doing frequent enough water changes to maintain alkalinity levels, you’re probably pulling out more nitrates than are being generated and could actually be removing too much nitrate and phosphate. I can’t tell you how many tanks i’ve seen with issues due to the myth that you HAVE to do a 20% weekly water change. Considering the goal is to mainly reduce nutrients and to a lesser extent, replenish trace elements, if you don’t have excessive nitrates, then all you’re imparting to the tank through frequent and sizable water changes is a little bit of trace elements which probably aren’t needed and a whole lot of instability in the form of alkalinity spikes. This can cause RTN/STN and is exasperated by increasing alkalinity while reducing nutrient levels, further throwing off the tank’s balance. This is why ULNS get away with trace nitrates along with an alkalinity that’s closer to NSW. More alk, more nitrates. I believe Sanjay’s tank runs up to a dkh of 11 but has up to 40ppm nitrates. If it were me, I would do a nitrate test and if it’s below 5ppm, I would leave things alone for a week and then retest.

 

[naterealbig]

Lots of great advice and recommendations so far. It looks like you've already got a hundred things to try or consider already, but if I could add a couple thoughts they would be this:

1. It doesn't seem like any one thing is sticking out here, but perhaps several slightly sub-optimum "parameters" are contributing to a larger effect. A little TLC may be all you need.

2. You mentioned that you matched alkalinity and calcium to your salt mix. If this is true, you should be able to do several water changes to restore all trace elements and other levels to a good number without any huge alkalinity swings.

3. While I don't use Triton testing regularly, if I was having the problems you mentioned, I would cough up a few bucks for a test, just to get a line of sight on trace element levels, and more importantly - heavy metals. Doing this would definitely give me the warm and fuzzy.

4. One thing that hasn't been mentioned as a potential problem is your source water. I only get about 400 gal from my carbon filters before the 4.5 ppm chloramines my city has so graciously bestowed upon my water supply starts to win the battle. As low as .005 ppm in sea water has been shown to be devastating to some sensitive invertebrates. Root cause of 75% of any major problems I've had with my reefs over the last 15 years was due to my source water. New quality cartridges for a 5 stage unit should only be about $50.

Take care.

 

[kevin_e]

I would bring temp down one degree, salinity down I point as it will increase with evaporation, and calc up a tad.
You need to get a water sample to trusted LFS and see where your level is at. Have them verify salinity also. Water flow- How much current are you providing? SPS requires med to med/strong flow and lighting should be heavy on blue and about 18% whites. Too strong of light will cause unhappiness with SPS

Detrious is a product of waste and support of ecosystem in bedding

You think 1.027 is too high for salinity? I have an ATO so ot should stay steady.

Same with temp. You think 77-79?

I did bring calc up to 430 over the weekend. Are you referencing the 375 ppm number from earlier?

I have 2 MP10s in my 50 cube. Plenry of random flow now that I cleaned the wet side.

For lighting I had a 400 watt radium. A very successful source.

 

[kevin_e]

Do you Triton test? Maybe baseline. Export for nitrates and phosphates? Testing data trends?

I have not. The filtration is a skimmer. Considering adding chaeto after I test nitrates on friday when test kit comes in.

 

[kevin_e]

Thoughts that your water changes as dosing strategy are amplifying your daily all swings and over time this might be stressing sps?

I havent been doing water changes for months. Don't remember the last one I did before this weekend.

 

[kevin_e]

Algae in your tank? No coralline is typical of low mg

No coralline. Haven't for the entire 1.5 years this tank has been set up.

 

[kevin_e]

stability stability stability.. I'm no pro but if you have kept things the same then you have other problems

Id say I've kept my hands off my tank through significant neglect. Can't say things have stayed the same.

 

[kevin_e]

Ok, here we go...

I wouldn’t do any water changes until you know your nitrate level and seeing detritus isn’t an indication of a nitrate issue. As this stuff breaks down, it releases nitrates into the water column until it has finished breaking down. It’s simply not an infinite nitrate source. Also, the problem
with dosing via water change is that each time you do water change, you’re pulling out nitrates and phosphates. If you’re doing frequent enough water changes to maintain alkalinity levels, you’re probably pulling out more nitrates than are being generated and could actually be removing too much nitrate and phosphate. I can’t tell you how many tanks i’ve seen with issues due to the myth that you HAVE to do a 20% weekly water change. Considering the goal is to mainly reduce nutrients and to a lesser extent, replenish trace elements, if you don’t have excessive nitrates, then all you’re imparting to the tank through frequent and sizable water changes is a little bit of trace elements which probably aren’t needed and a whole lot of instability in the form of alkalinity spikes. This can cause RTN/STN and is exasperated by increasing alkalinity while reducing nutrient levels, further throwing off the tank’s balance. This is why ULNS get away with trace nitrates along with an alkalinity that’s closer to NSW. More alk, more nitrates. I believe Sanjay’s tank runs up to a dkh of 11 but has up to 40ppm nitrates. If it were me, I would do a nitrate test and if it’s below 5ppm, I would leave things alone for a week and then retest.

I'll get a nitrate test Friday when the kit arrives. For clarity, I haven't done water changes for months. First one in awhilenwas thisnweekend to clean sump. I am proposing biweekly 10% changes.

 

[kevin_e]

Lots of great advice and recommendations so far. It looks like you've already got a hundred things to try or consider already, but if I could add a couple thoughts they would be this:

1. It doesn't seem like any one thing is sticking out here, but perhaps several slightly sub-optimum "parameters" are contributing to a larger effect. A little TLC may be all you need.

2. You mentioned that you matched alkalinity and calcium to your salt mix. If this is true, you should be able to do several water changes to restore all trace elements and other levels to a good number without any huge alkalinity swings.

3. While I don't use Triton testing regularly, if I was having the problems you mentioned, I would cough up a few bucks for a test, just to get a line of sight on trace element levels, and more importantly - heavy metals. Doing this would definitely give me the warm and fuzzy.

4. One thing that hasn't been mentioned as a potential problem is your source water. I only get about 400 gal from my carbon filters before the 4.5 ppm chloramines my city has so graciously bestowed upon my water supply starts to win the battle. As low as .005 ppm in sea water has been shown to be devastating to some sensitive invertebrates. Root cause of 75% of any major problems I've had with my reefs over the last 15 years was due to my source water. New quality cartridges for a 5 stage unit should only be about $50.

Take care.

1) I think you're right. Neglect set in and many mi or issues probably came to a head.

2) I dont match alk or calc to anything. I mix the salt and add. For clarity I did my first water change in months this weekend.

3) This is something I am tossing around doing if not just for a baseline.

4) Good point on the filters. I actually looked back at my bulk reef purchases to see when I purchased the filters. Coming up on 6 months, which is what I've found to be the recomended time frame for switching them out. Going to lurchase new carbon blocks and sediment filters soon.

 

[vetteguy53081]

You think 1.027 is too high for salinity? I have an ATO so ot should stay steady.

Same with temp. You think 77-79? Yes

I did bring calc up to 430 over the weekend. Are you referencing the 375 ppm number from earlier? Yes

I have 2 MP10s in my 50 cube. Plenry of random flow now that I cleaned the wet side. This will help

For lighting I had a 400 watt radium. A very successful source.

Blues are essential

 

[Crustaceon]

I'll get a nitrate test Friday when the kit arrives. For clarity, I haven't done water changes for months. First one in awhilenwas thisnweekend to clean sump. I am proposing biweekly 10% changes.

That’s a great tidbit of info. So if your salt mix and water changes are acting as you only method of dosing, has your alkalinity stayed that high for months? If so, that’s indicative of some aspect of your tank completely inhibiting coral (or coralline) growth as you’ve noted. Simply having too much alkalinity in general in relation to calcium and mag, super high nutrient levels, insufficient lighting or extremely low flow can do this. But it sounds like you’re ok on light intensity (even full spectrum bulbs grow coral. Brown but otherwise healthy coral) and even barely moving water will still grow at least coralline in the tank. I’ve heard the Japanese method of keeping sps is using really low flow to get more “whispy” growth (have to confirm that one), so I think your MP10 is ok. I’ve seen 10-20 x tank turnover be fine. So that’s making me lean even more towards this being #1 an alk/calcium/mg balance issue, or #2 a nutrient issue (probably too high since there are no dinos or cyano). I’m really curious to see what that nitrate test comes out as and given you haven’t done any water changes for a while, I would do one as recommended by others. Actually, I take that back. I would do many of them but in very small percentages each day. Instead of doing a 10% twice a week, do a 3% water change each day. Either way and even if those nitrates are pretty high, IMO, I would bring down that alkalinity under 9 at the very least. And this might sound really funny but I would avoid using your salt mix if it’s mixing @ 10dkh. I’m lucky living in San Diego and having access to free salt water but I have noticed that some pet stores carry ready to go actual sea water which will have a dkh of 7. Doing small water changes with this will gradually lower your alk since no calcification is happening to do this naturally and will get those nutrients down too. Try doing these tiny water changes while siphoning your sandbed or any visible detritus. You’ll still pull out the probably excessive nitrates that are in there but will shock the corals a whole lot less when the new salt water goes in and causes the alkalinity to swing a bit, but I would much rather have alkalinity dip than spike. The key right now is avoiding additional stress on your tank which means small and gradual changes in water parameters if possible.

 

[BigJohnny]

I wish I had an answer for the alkalinity stability. I neglected the tank and made assumptions re alk/calc when I shouldn't have. That includes not doing water changes.

This is probably why. You have to have stable params to keep acros, especially alkalinity. You are not dosing and you are not doing water changes? Game over

 

[kevin_e]

"I wish I had an answer for the alkalinity stability. I neglected the tank and made assumptions re alk/calc when I shouldn't have. That includes not doing water changes"

This is probably why

Well, yeah. Neglect will always cause issues. Trick is tracking down the issue not identifying one.