Critter and Disease I.D.

Seanybaggs123

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Good Morning,

I hope I'm being paranoid for nothing, but my instincts tell me otherwise.

I brought home 2 oscelaris clowns, 1 lawnmower blenny, 1 frogspawn, and 1 green star polyp frag yesterday.

I acclimated the fish and added them to the display tank, and glued the corals down to some live rock.

The clowns haven't settled yet and are still scanning the tank. The blenny is seemingly normal, grazing the rock for food, but also taking the occasional swim to the top and resting on the magfloat or heater.

This morning when I woke up, the clowns look different to me. The gills look dark (and admittedly might have yesterday, I was more elated with the corals), and they have a few white spots. The sump I inhereted does not have a bubble trap and I have far more microbubbles than most. So, I'm not sure if this is the cause, or if I'm dealing with disease.

In addition, I noticed small moving critters on the glass. Thin, tubular, tiny white worms that I couldn't get a picture of. Also, what I think are amphipods (picture attached).

Parameters:
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 30ppm (I know they're high)
ph: 8ish
dkh: 8

Any help is appreciated!

Resized_20191202_065504_9003.jpeg Resized_20191202_071540_3021.jpeg Resized_20191202_071543_3619.jpeg Resized_20191202_071548_7620.jpeg
 
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Gareth elliott

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Pod on your glass good reef critter.
The white worm would need a pic to get an id, way too many different kinds. Fwiw i have never seen a fish pest on the glass except hydras and they are only a concern with fry and sea horses.

the gills do look enflamed.

a freshwater dip may help to see if its gill flukes.
methylene blue bath can help if there is damage
@4FordFamily @HotRocks can better help on an id for whats wrong with the gills.
 
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Seanybaggs123

Seanybaggs123

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Pod on your glass good reef critter.
The white worm would need a pic to get an id, way too many different kinds. Fwiw i have never seen a fish pest on the glass except hydras and they are only a concern with fry and sea horses.

the gills do look enflamed.

a freshwater dip may help to see if its gill flukes.
methylene blue bath can help if there is damage
@4FordFamily @HotRocks can better help on an id for whats wrong with the gills.
Thank you!
 

4FordFamily

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Is it blood red like in the last pic? That’s pretty uncommon, I would be inclined to say it’s an injury if there’s no ammonia present to severely burn them
 

Gareth elliott

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Yes. If anything it's gotten darker.

No ammonia, but I do have high nitrates...
Are there any other signs? gasping, hiding, not eating, etc?

How high are the nitrates? Will have to be very high and even then wouldn't cause this but..

If nitrates are very high its possible something else is elevated. That trace elements found in food could also be elevated. Heavy metals in particular can have weird effects on heme compounds(Heme A is the precursor to hemoglobin). That perhaps a water change could assist the fish.
 
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Seanybaggs123

Seanybaggs123

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Water parameters?
Parameters:
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 30ppm (I know they're high)
ph: 8ish
dkh: 8

Welp. He was laying in the sand this morning, more spots, white stringy poop... So rather than come home from work to a dead fish I tried the only thing I could.... Freshwater bath. Immediately following the freshwater bath (4 minutes 30 seconds), I put him back in the DT and he couldn't swim upright. So, I euthanized him. Pictures are attached for a better shot of the gills.

The other clown is still in there. He has slight discoloration in his face, and a small white mark near the back side of one gill. I bought them, the lawn mower blenny, and some corals, on sunday. I water changed the day before. Everyone, including the shrimp, snails, blenny, and corals are doing great. The clowns are the only ones showing any symptoms... which leads me to believe I bought them sick :(

Lesson Learned. Have Prazi Pro, ich-x, and some QT tank supplies on the way, unless you guys have any other suggestions...

20191203_063759.jpg
 

huckjai

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How long couldn't it swim upright for? Sometimes it takes a bit for it adjust back to the salt water.

Also, did you dip your corals before adding to the display tank? They could introduce some nasty critters to your tank.
 
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Seanybaggs123

Seanybaggs123

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How long couldn't it swim upright for? Sometimes it takes a bit for it adjust back to the salt water.

Also, did you dip your corals before adding to the display tank? They could introduce some nasty critters to your tank.
He couldn't swim upright for 10 minutes before I pulled him.
I didn't dip the corals.
 

huckjai

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Yeah, 10 minutes is a long time. Poor fish.

But definitely dip your corals next time. Takes 5-10 minutes. I got my first 2 corals a few days ago. LFS told me to definitely do a dip. Quite a few nasties came out when I did.

Yiu can probably still dip them. I think the nasty stuff just leeches onto the corals.
 
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Seanybaggs123

Seanybaggs123

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Yeah, 10 minutes is a long time. Poor fish.

But definitely dip your corals next time. Takes 5-10 minutes. I got my first 2 corals a few days ago. LFS told me to definitely do a dip. Quite a few nasties came out when I did.

Yiu can probably still dip them. I think the nasty stuff just leeches onto the corals.
If there is anything I've learned from this, it is that nothing will go in the display tank until it's been quarantined... Corals included. It's a little late to dip them now as they're super glued to pretty good sized live rocks.

I know .. I felt terrible at the time, and thought about that fish all day :(
 

Brian Kennedy

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What is the salinity of the LFS water vs your DT water. Even a drip acclimation for a half hour is rough on them going from 1.020 to 1.025 SG.
 

BloopFish

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If there is anything I've learned from this, it is that nothing will go in the display tank until it's been quarantined... Corals included. It's a little late to dip them now as they're super glued to pretty good sized live rocks.

I know .. I felt terrible at the time, and thought about that fish all day :(
The coral dipping is pretty unrelated to the fish, but I find from my experience that it's pretty easy to remove things that are super glued onto my rocks... in fact they sometimes get unglued by my snails or powerhead. I'd imagine if you really wanted to dip the corals, it wouldn't be too hard to remove them from the super glue.
 
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Seanybaggs123

Seanybaggs123

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What is the salinity of the LFS water vs your DT water. Even a drip acclimation for a half hour is rough on them going from 1.020 to 1.025 SG.
To be honest I'm not sure, and I probably won't go back to that store.
He was going to give me a mated pair, but when I came back to retrieve them he said "oh I don't like the way that one looks". He grabbed the other fish (from the same tank), and another clown from another tank.

So, I probably bought sick fish, and they had never seen each other before (not juveniles). It was probably injury and disease.
 
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Brian Kennedy

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What’s is your acclimation process? Test the SG in your tank, then call the LFS and ask what SG they keep their tanks at. A swing of 0.005 in 30 minutes can seriously stress a fish. Combine that with a big temp swing and bad things happen. I would be reluctant to blame the LFS until you know the answers to these questions. Not trying to be a d!ck, but I’ve murdered too many fish due to my own ignorance.
 
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Seanybaggs123

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What’s is your acclimation process? Test the SG in your tank, then call the LFS and ask what SG they keep their tanks at. A swing of 0.005 in 30 minutes can seriously stress a fish. Combine that with a big temp swing and bad things happen. I would be reluctant to blame the LFS until you know the answers to these questions. Not trying to be a d!ck, but I’ve murdered too many fish due to my own ignorance.
I drip acclimated for an hour or so. SG is 1.025.
I will call, but I'm pretty experienced in freshwater...
The first time I went to this store I saw two dead damsels...
The next time I went... a dead lawnmower blenny
The final time to pick up my clowns... "He didn't like the way one looked" and pulled a fish from the same tank.

I researched saltwater fishkeeping for a year to include watching the brs 160 3 times, asking my aunt who has kept successful reefs a million questions etc...

I hear you, but I put a lot of work into making sure the tank paramaters, water quality, maintenance schedule, and equipment performance were tip top before I added them (with the exception of high ntirates).

If this is something I missed... fine. Another lesson learned. But.... regarding the LFS... if it looks like a duck and smells like a duck... it's probably a duck

Mainly looking for disease ID here so that I know where to go from here with the remaining fish in the tank that were added at the same time.

I beat myself up plenty about losing that fish, will quarantine from here on out, acclimate more carefully, and identify SG and temperature at stores I get the fish from from here on out.

However, the LFS I went to sells saltwater at an SG of 1.026.
 

Brian Kennedy

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I drip acclimated for an hour or so. SG is 1.025.
I will call, but I'm pretty experienced in freshwater...
The first time I went to this store I saw two dead damsels...
The next time I went... a dead lawnmower blenny
The final time to pick up my clowns... "He didn't like the way one looked" and pulled a fish from the same tank.

I researched saltwater fishkeeping for a year to include watching the brs 160 3 times, asking my aunt who has kept successful reefs a million questions etc...

I hear you, but I put a lot of work into making sure the tank paramaters, water quality, maintenance schedule, and equipment performance were tip top before I added them (with the exception of high ntirates).

If this is something I missed... fine. Another lesson learned. But.... regarding the LFS... if it looks like a duck and smells like a duck... it's probably a duck

Mainly looking for disease ID here so that I know where to go from here with the remaining fish in the tank that were added at the same time.

I beat myself up plenty about losing that fish, will quarantine from here on out, acclimate more carefully, and identify SG and temperature at stores I get the fish from from here on out.

However, the LFS I went to sells saltwater at an SG of 1.026.
Not trying to beat you up here. Trying to give an alternative perspective on the info you provided.

I've also watched the crap out of the BRS videos. Its a very good resource. I watch those videos regularly.

Regarding the LFS, I treat them all like they are contaminated with parasites. All corals are dipped and all fish are QT'd. Some stores are better than others, but it sounds like yours may not be very good. I switched to a different LFS for this exact reason. Dead fish everywhere, visible disease.....

The water LFS sells is really a different conversation from what they keep their tanks at. Many will keep there marine "fish" tanks at 1.020 salinity and "Invert" tanks at 1.025 salinity. Its mostly to suppress pathogens like Ick and Velvet. Many split up inverts and fish because inverts cant handle the copper the LFS keeps in the "fish" tanks. Nor can the inverts handle 1.020 salinity very well.

My point is, the clown fish died with inflamed gills and no visible signs of external parasites within 24 hours. Could it be Velvet, sure. Could it only be in the gills, sure. Its certainly a fast killer. But clowns are robust and are often one of the few survivors of Velvet outbreak. I think the already stressed fish may have suffered Osmotic shock. They can handle going from high salinity to lower salinity pretty well, but going in the other direction can be problematic. I've made the mistake myself. Many people acclimate at 0.001 SG increase per day so going 0.005 SG in one hour....

I sincerely wish you luck.
 
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Seanybaggs123

Seanybaggs123

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Not trying to beat you up here. Trying to give an alternative perspective on the info you provided.

I've also watched the crap out of the BRS videos. Its a very good resource. I watch those videos regularly.

Regarding the LFS, I treat them all like they are contaminated with parasites. All corals are dipped and all fish are QT'd. Some stores are better than others, but it sounds like yours may not be very good. I switched to a different LFS for this exact reason. Dead fish everywhere, visible disease.....

The water LFS sells is really a different conversation from what they keep their tanks at. Many will keep there marine "fish" tanks at 1.020 salinity and "Invert" tanks at 1.025 salinity. Its mostly to suppress pathogens like Ick and Velvet. Many split up inverts and fish because inverts cant handle the copper the LFS keeps in the "fish" tanks. Nor can the inverts handle 1.020 salinity very well.

My point is, the clown fish died with inflamed gills and no visible signs of external parasites within 24 hours. Could it be Velvet, sure. Could it only be in the gills, sure. Its certainly a fast killer. But clowns are robust and are often one of the few survivors of Velvet outbreak. I think the already stressed fish may have suffered Osmotic shock. They can handle going from high salinity to lower salinity pretty well, but going in the other direction can be problematic. I've made the mistake myself. Many people acclimate at 0.001 SG increase per day so going 0.005 SG in one hour....

I sincerely wish you luck.
Ahhhhhh Gotchya!

Sorry, I'm probably a little hyper sensitive from the failure.

The hyposalinity in their display tanks makes sense and hadn't even occured to me.

I did notice what I thought were small white spots a few places on the fish. Can barely see them on his face in one of the pictures above. They were slightly worse the day the fish bit the dust.

Also, the remaining clown has a slightly enflamed gill on one side and there is a small white mark at the bottom of the gill plate. He's in much better shape... I'm just wondering for how long.

Just waiting on the heater for QT. Already have:
New 10 gallon tank
sponge filter
ready to pull a rock from the fuge
pvc pipe
light
Ich-X
Prazi Pro
 

Brian Kennedy

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Also keep in mind, the DT is likely now contaminated with whatever the white is...brook, velvet, ich...

pulled this from another forum:


Flared Gills in baby clownfish "True Percs"
I have been reading several different forums from some very old post and they have many different reasoning’s that cause flared gills.
From quality of food being fed to the baby clownfish.
Poor culling. Which I am assuming this has something to do with the rotifers.
How does a person do “Poor Culling”?
Genetic
Injury. What type of injury could cause “flared gills”?
Water quality.

The reason why I am asking this is because I have found 3 out of 15 baby clownfish “True Perc” that I just put up for sale from my one and only batch that has made it so far. I still have eighteen babies that are still a little too small to be put up for sale. I am waiting for them to get at least ¾” to 1” before I will sale them.
They were born back in June - 2013.

Isn’t there a medication for Flared Gills?
 
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