Cryptic Zonal System

[Subsea]

I run a cryptic zone in my sump
I feel sponge is a key part of my tanks success

With cabinet doors shut

And in the sump, in all 3 chambers, is established live rock covered in blue, purple, and yellow sponge, mini dusters, pods. There are no snails or crabs or predators for the micro critters. The middle chamber also has a 3” sandbed

And in my display I have a blue rope sponge colony and a softball size colony of yellow sponge

Kudos to this success.

 

[VintageReefer]

Display tan sponge growth since post 12 (sept 2024)

Front

Side view

 

[GeoSquid]

What are the best ways to increase sponge growth in a system?
Dosing silicate?
I also read carbon dosing, but i dont run a skimmer. Not sure you can carbon dose without one.

 

[Subsea]

@GeoSquid
Yes to silicates for sponges.

However, sponges are opportunistic in their feeding and in addittion to bacteria: sponges eat; phytoplankton, viruses, fungi, spores including parasites like free swimming ich theront stage of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis This stage typically lasting less than 48 hours before the parasite must find a host or die. Theronts are small, pear-shaped, and move quickly by spinning. Sponges also eat Dinoflagellets

Food is a carbon source. Step up to the next level and feed live mussels for gut cavity bacteria. All my filter feeders, eat
“mussel juice”

 

[GeoSquid]

@GeoSquid
Yes to silicates for sponges.

However, sponges are opportunistic in their feeding and in addittion to bacteria: sponges eat; phytoplankton, viruses, fungi, spores including parasites like free swimming ich theront stage of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis This stage typically lasting less than 48 hours before the parasite must find a host or die. Theronts are small, pear-shaped, and move quickly by spinning. Sponges also eat Dinoflagellets

Food is a carbon source. Step up to the next level and feed live mussels for gut cavity bacteria. All my filter feeders, eat
“mussel juice”

I don't have a cryptic zone but I do have a prolific entrusting yellow sponge. I used to feed live phyto and did notice an increase in sponges, but its kind of a PIA keeping cultures going. What about live baby brine shrimp? It seems I have other sponges come and go, but would like to know what helped them.....other than live phyto!

I feed fresh shucked then frozen oysters every couple days. I use the oyster juice to spot feed corals. LPS seem to react to it.

 

[Subsea]

Mussel Juice is gut cavity live bacteria. All filter feeders should love it.

I find mussels more economical, plus I use them & live seaweed to make stock for seafood gumbo.

 

[jonelder68]

Getting ready to plumb in a 10 gallon suspended/floating cryptic tank to my system. With the disaster my tank has been figured might help? worse case will have a cool tank to explore different forums of life.

Hopefully will get it installed/set up this weekend. Just finished drilling overflows & blacking tank out (except for the front has a hinged black out panel to open and view inside)

Ordering 20lbs of TBS nano base rock and will be installed on 2 tiers of egg crate shelving. Water will be plumbed down to the bottom of tank into multiple outlets to flow up through the rocks.

I’m sure I’ll have several questions @Subsea and @VintageReefer not much info out there I can find on cryptic set ups.

 

[GeoSquid]

Mussel Juice is gut cavity live bacteria. All filter feeders should love it.

I find mussels more economical, plus I use them & live seaweed to make stock for seafood gumbo.

I live in socal and used to harvest mussels for surf/beach fishing. Awesome bait. Surprisingly, Mussels at the store here are not all that cheap. We have a special sunshine tax that makes everything ridiculously expensive here. Do you feed mussel juice to sponges (target feed)?

Would sponges eat baby brine?

 

[GeoSquid]

Getting ready to plumb in a 10 gallon suspended/floating cryptic tank to my system. With the disaster my tank has been figured might help? worse case will have a cool tank to explore different forums of life.

Hopefully will get it installed/set up this weekend. Just finished drilling overflows & blacking tank out (except for the front has a hinged black out panel to open and view inside)

Ordering 20lbs of TBS nano base rock and will be installed on 2 tiers of egg crate shelving. Water will be plumbed down to the bottom of tank into multiple outlets to flow up through the rocks.

I’m sure I’ll have several questions @Subsea and @VintageReefer not much info out there I can find on cryptic set ups.

That is a serious setup!

 

[Subsea]

I live in socal and used to harvest mussels for surf/beach fishing. Awesome bait. Surprisingly, Mussels at the store here are not all that cheap. We have a special sunshine tax that makes everything ridiculously expensive here. Do you feed mussel juice to sponges (target feed)?

Would sponges eat baby brine?

I doubt baby brine. I don’t target feed sponges. When I feed fish mussel flesh, I also broadcast the juice.

 

[jonelder68]

That is a serious setup!

Thanks! Unfortunately it hasn’t made me a better reefer by any means . Quite the opposite actually.

Curious also on feeding sponges and detritus? I’ve read detritus can clog up sponges? How big of stuff are we worried about? My auto feeder dumps into return pump and I plan on T’ing off return line to supply cryptic tank. It won’t get much but will flake and pellet food be an issue?

 

[Subsea]

“Curious also on feeding sponges and detritus? I’ve read detritus can clog up sponges? How big of stuff are we worried about? My auto feeder dumps into return pump and I plan on T’ing off return line to supply cryptic tank. It won’t get much but will flake and pellet food be an issue“

Robust flow is very important for sponges. Detritus should not be allowed to settle on them.

Where are you placing sponges that fish food would be an issue?

PS: previous comments about sponges were for ornamental sponges. However, cryptic sponges feeding strategies would be similar.

Steve Tyree first talked about Cryptic Zones

www.reeffarmers.com

Steve Tyree is a recognized expert in the aquarium hobby who developed a specialized "Zonal Filtration Methodology" focusing on
cryptic zones to manage nutrients in reef tanks.
What are Cryptic Zones (Tyree Method)?

• Definition: A cryptic zone is an unlit, high-flow area in a filtration system, such as a dedicated sump or chamber, designed to foster the growth of organisms that do not require light.
• Organisms: These zones are primarily designed for sponges, tunicates (sea squirts), and bivalves.
• Purpose: They act as a natural filtration system, utilizing these organisms to consume dissolved organic compounds (DOC), bacteria, and micro-plankton, thereby reducing the need for traditional protein skimmers.
• Implementation: These zones are typically set up behind large overhangs, in deep pits, or in separate, shaded containers.
• Key Requirements: To function properly, they require high water flow to bring in nutrients but must be protected from large particulate matter to prevent clogging of the sponges.

Key Takeaways on Tyree’s Approach:

• No Light: Cryptic zones do not support photosynthetic animals.
• Seeding: Reeffarmers (Steve Tyree's organization) sells "seed rocks" that contain established cryptic organisms to start these zones.
• System Integration: They are often used in conjunction with "semi-cryptic" zones (dimly lit) and refugiums to create a comprehensive natural filtration system.

Benefits and Considerations:

• Biodiversity: They increase the overall biodiversity of the aquarium.
• Nutrient Export: Effective at lowering PO4 (phosphates).

 

[jonelder68]

“Curious also on feeding sponges and detritus? I’ve read detritus can clog up sponges? How big of stuff are we worried about? My auto feeder dumps into return pump and I plan on T’ing off return line to supply cryptic tank. It won’t get much but will flake and pellet food be an issue“

Robust flow is very important for sponges. Detritus should not be allowed to settle on them.

Where are you placing sponges that fish food would be an issue?

In the suspended 10 gallon tank I’m adding onto system. I’m going to add water by tee’ing return line. But my auto feeder is plumbed into my return pump.

I havent noticed much or any food in the 20L remote fuge on the left. It’s also tee’d off from return line. Probably due to it having to take a hard 90 degree turn in the tee to go to the refugium?

But also I plan on return into cryptic tank having water enter tank from the bottom. Then will flow up to return but pass through the 2 egg crate shelves of rock/sponges on the way. Hopefully that makes sense?

 

[GeoSquid]

Thanks! Unfortunately it hasn’t made me a better reefer by any means . Quite the opposite actually.

Curious also on feeding sponges and detritus? I’ve read detritus can clog up sponges? How big of stuff are we worried about? My auto feeder dumps into return pump and I plan on T’ing off return line to supply cryptic tank. It won’t get much but will flake and pellet food be an issue?

If things aren't going well, be careful not getting into too much of the stuff in this hobby. I have a 360 gallon 10' reef running on only lights and water movement. I went big refugium with mud, macro algae and mangroves. Water flow is 3 carleson surges. Lights - went back to halides (fraction of the cost of leds). Good to recreate a natural microbiome. Cryptic fuge would fit in nicely. I think natural filtration has less ups and downs and makes the system more resilient to issues than all the chemicals and equipment.

 

[jonelder68]

If things aren't going well, be careful not getting into too much of the stuff in this hobby. I have a 360 gallon 10' reef running on only lights and water movement. I went big refugium with mud, macro algae and mangroves. Water flow is 3 carleson surges. Lights - went back to halides (fraction of the cost of leds). Good to recreate a natural microbiome. Cryptic fuge would fit in nicely. I think natural filtration has less ups and downs and makes the system more resilient to issues than alk the equipment.

Ya I planned tank out a year or so before setting it up. I’ve just had uglies after uglies especially Dino’s even with steady NO3 and PO4. DT is aquascaped with dry sand and Marcos rocks. Remote fuge on the Left is few lbs (10-12?) of TBS rock and all TBS sand. So looking for ways to add more LR and biome. Figured cryptic be a good way with 20 more pounds of LR etc.

 

[Subsea]

In the suspended 10 gallon tank I’m adding onto system. I’m going to add water by tee’ing return line. But my auto feeder is plumbed into my return pump.

I havent noticed much or any food in the 20L remote fuge on the left. It’s also tee’d off from return line. Probably due to it having to take a hard 90 degree turn in the tee to go to the refugium?

But also I plan on return into cryptic tank having water enter tank from the bottom. Then will flow up to return but pass through the 2 egg crate shelves of rock/sponges on the way. Hopefully that makes sense?

To be blunt, your system is quite complex. As a control systems engineer in the field, I fought with corporate engineers on over engineered systems: TOO MANY FAILURE POINTS.

In most display tanks, cryptic sponges will grow on the back side of rocks.

 

[jonelder68]

To be blunt, your system is quite complex. As a control systems engineer in the field, I fought with corporate engineers on over engineered systems: TOO MANY FAILURE POINTS.

In most display tanks, cryptic sponges will grow on the back side of rocks.

It may look like a lot but it’s pretty simple lay out. No issues so far coming up on a year. Suspended cryptic addition add on is maybe a bit over the top ? But when out of space must go up!

I’ll update this weekend if I get time to install it all.

Just tee’ing off remote fuge line. Then will drain back to skimmer chamber. 2 tiers of egg crate will LR. Simple

 

[jonelder68]

Almost got it wrapped up. Few things left to do. But here’s the “gist” of it.