cupramine and angels - my log

[4FordFamily]

anyways thats what i was told from a oldy, still sceptical but you never know

I'm not sure what you're skeptical of, 7 weeks in my fish are thriving (5 of which or more are expert level only)?

:Shrug:

 

[Dalmatia]

I've done it in my tanks for over ten years. The real reason you shouldn't change larger volumes of water is to prevent parameter swings. I have it down to a science.

In addition, My bio filter (and 95% or more of everyone's bio filter) is not in the water column. Mine is in various sponges in my large hob filter and sponge in the tank itself with a pump moving water through it.

like a aquaclear 110? i do the same... also your correct on the parameters being changed instantly, they will contribute to a lot of stress in your tank for all living matter....
anyways glad to know that your doing good

 

[Dalmatia]

I'm not sure what you're skeptical of, 7 weeks in my fish are thriving (5 of which or more are expert level only)?

:Shrug:

im not sure i believe in my oldy friends,,, they can be old school. thats what i'm ify about

 

[4FordFamily]

im not sure i believe in my oldy friends,,, they can be old school. thats what i'm ify about

Haha yeah I believe a lot of what they say but some stuff...

My HOB filter is a huge bio wheel. I had it for a freshwater tank years ago. It's rated for like 75 gallons or something, which in saltwater really means nothing lol

I added lots of sponge in place of carbon in it for my purposes

 

[4FordFamily]

Debrief of results:

The results are in. All of the fish survived cupramine at .55-.75 levels for 2.5 months or more. (See first post and the updated stock list a few after on first page)

Every angel mentioned and also a Flameback angel I forgot to add

In summary, I would say it's safe to say that angels are NOT overly sensitive to copper, at least cupramine used in these experiments. I am now running another Red Sea regal angel through cupramine. No issues so far.

I would say that wrasse struggle a bit with cupramine. I had several come through without trouble however, including several "expert" level, sensitive wrasses.

I think the key is good water quality (frequent water changes) and slow increase of cupramine levels.

A contributing factor to wrasse difficulty was that I did NOT have access to sand for them in the quarantine tank. ALL of the wrasses I lost during treatment, whether due to copper or not, were sand burrowing wrasse (melanarus, Christmas, and kuiters leopard wrasse).

Then again, two male Blue star leopard wrasses made it through without issue even in the absense of sand. I do believe sand would have improved my odds.

 

[VJV]

I think the key is good water quality (frequent water changes) and slow increase of cupramine levels.

Sorry if I missed it but exactly how slow did you raise cupramine levels? I once had a Flame Angel die during quarantine when treating with cupramine, and on that case I took two weeks ( instead of the recommended 48h) to reach the 0,5 concentration.

 

[4FordFamily]

Sorry if I missed it but exactly how slow did you raise cupramine levels? I once had a Flame Angel die during quarantine when treating with cupramine, and on that case I took two weeks ( instead of the recommended 48h) to reach the 0,5 concentration.

My guess is the death was a result of something else such as ammonia, or you used amquel or prime in succession with it. I did it in no less than a week. 4-5 days if I recall is average for me. I would recommend to take a full week though so long as the fish aren't already suffering badly. And even if they are I would do a freshwater dip for immediate relief actually.

 

[VJV]

Thanks. I was already 4 weeks into quarantine, and the seachem ammonia badge (which by the way I've found to be a bit useless) did not register any ammonia so I don't think that was it. I also never used amquel or Prime or any other such product so I guess it was a sensitive flame angel.

 

[E048]

After I stopped using copper and started doing ttm I haven't lost a single fish to ich... Knock on wood

When I used copper I probably had a 1 in 6 success rate

I lost a few tangs in qt, Angels, anthias, and wrasse when treating with copper

I stand behind ttm and hypo

 

[4FordFamily]

After I stopped using copper and started doing ttm I haven't lost a single fish to ich... Knock on wood

When I used copper I probably had a 1 in 6 success rate

I lost a few tangs in qt, Angels, anthias, and wrasse when treating with copper

I stand behind ttm and hypo

I've lost far more fish with TTM but a lot of it is because I have larger batches of fish and I hoped my 30 gallon Rubbermaid were enough but they were not.

Hypo does nothing for anything except ich, and TTM if done properly is fantastic.

Most people that lose fish with copper lose the fish because they're in a new uncycled qt and the fish die of ammonia poisoning because they do not do the necessary giant water changes needed if you do this, or because they use amquel or prime (or any nitrate nitrite and ammonia detoxifier) with copper. This is DEADLY and many people (including myself early on) made this mistake.

I had horrible luck treating fish with copper (or anything) and quarantining until I addressed the above two issues. Now almost every fish I buy survives.

I'm not saying that's what you're doing, I'm just saying I see and hear of it all the time and have personal experience with that lol