Current Quarantine Protocol

[jmichaelh7]

@Jay Hemdal setting up a 20 long for coral QT. Will be used as a fish observation tank later. Would 8w or 15w AquaUV be better suited for this tank? Very little price difference, concerned about heat addition but still want to be in the proper range for sterilization

Are you doing 76 day fallow with coral

 

[ThaBeast]

Are you doing 76 day fallow with coral

Actually planning on coral observation, stock tank with corals, wait 90-180 days, then start adding fish after they have been quarantined.

 

[jmichaelh7]

Actually planning on coral observation, stock tank with corals, wait 90-180 days, then start adding fish after they have been quarantined

All power to you brother . 90-180 days I’m barely at 60 and I’m wanting to take my chances LOL

 

[ThaBeast]

All power to you brother . 90-180 days I’m barely at 60 and I’m wanting to take my chances LOL

Helps a ton to have other hobbies! I train my poodle for competitive obedience 5-6x a week. He thinks the aquarium is dumb, btw. When I start hooking up equipment or testing levels he goes to sit with my wife

 

[jmichaelh7]

Helps a ton to have other hobbies! I train my poodle for competitive obedience 5-6x a week. He thinks the aquarium is dumb, btw. When I start hooking up equipment or testing levels he goes to sit with my wife

Now that is work ! And also rewarding .

 

[Superlightman]

2023 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough



Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank. This process does not control Brooklynella, Uronema, viruses or internal parasites. These issues however, make up a much smaller number of disease cases in marine fish.

Quarantine tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.

• Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
• The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD
• Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-absorbing sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
• Heater/thermometer
• Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
• Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank.
• A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate.
• A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
• Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.

Days 1 – 2: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.

• Set QT temperature to 78 - 80 degrees F.
• Acclimate the new fish to the QT:
  • Measure salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Adjust salinity in QT to within 2 ppt of the salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Acclimate the fish to the QT gradually over 45 minutes.
• Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
• Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.

Day 2: Begin Copper Treatment

• Add Coppersafe to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.25 to 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.25 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use.
• Never use ammonia removing products or other reducing agents (dechlorinator) when dosing copper. Most products bind copper with an amine to reduce toxicity to the fish. Reducing agents break that bond, releasing free copper that can harm the fish.
• Feed and top off tank water normally.

Days 3 – 32: Continue Copper Treatment

• Monitor copper ppm regularly. If the copper level remains steady day to day, you can test less often, but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you may need to restart the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
• Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
• If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes (pre dosed with copper) to correct the problem.

Day 34: Copper Done

• Begin copper removal through water changes.
• Binding agents Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process.
• Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.

Day 35: Praziquantel Treatment #1

• Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously.
• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label.
• Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.

Day 42, Day 49: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3

• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label, 7 days apart. Spacing needed for these treatments is based on killing new flukes hatching from previously laid eggs. The time interval is not well known. A range of 7 to 9 days seems to give the best results.

Day 64: New Fish QT complete

• Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose. Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10.
• Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
• Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.

Is one month copper necessary? Would be 5 days not enough followed by praziquantel and an observation period?

 

[jmichaelh7]

Is one month copper necessary? Would be 5 days not enough followed by praziquantel and an observation period?

I’ve done 14 days but never heard of 5

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is one month copper necessary? Would be 5 days not enough followed by praziquantel and an observation period?

Five days is nowhere near long enough. Coppersafe needs to be dosed for 30 days. You can dose ionic copper for 21 days, but that is more stressful on the fish.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’ve done 14 days but never heard of 5

For amine-based copper products (copper power and coppersafe) they need to be dosed for 30 days. Ionic copper like citric acid and Cupramine can be dosed for shorter times because they are more stressful to the fish - but even then, 21 days is the minimum.

The reason for this is that no copper product kills the tomonts or trophonts of the ich or Amyloodinium parasites. You need to run copper long enough to kill the smaller, motile theronts as they are released over time.

Jay

 

[jmichaelh7]

For amine-based copper products (copper power and coppersafe) they need to be dosed for 30 days. Ionic copper like citric acid and Cupramine can be dosed for shorter times because they are more stressful to the fish - but even then, 21 days is the minimum.

The reason for this is that no copper product kills the tomonts or trophonts of the ich or Amyloodinium parasites. You need to run copper long enough to kill the smaller, motile theronts as they are released over time.

Jay

I followed humble fish method for 14 days then into Sterile tank , sterile equipment .

Fingers crossed going on 3 weeks no white spots.

I will have them in observation until Sep 28th to see if anything arises. Fingers crossed

 

[Superlightman]

There is no treatment more effective than,cooper?
Did you listen about oxydator?
Found this interesting article :

The ONLY Reef-Safe Ich Treatment in a Display Tank

It's really discouraging to see your aquarium efforts go to waste because of a single parasitic outbreak. A fish with ich. A reef-safe treatment for fish with marine Ich exists but it requires a bit

aquanswers.com

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I followed humble fish method for 14 days then into Sterile tank , sterile equipment .

Fingers crossed going on 3 weeks no white spots.

I will have them in observation until Sep 28th to see if anything arises. Fingers crossed

That always made me scratch my head a bit - he was the person promoting the 76 day fallow period, yet he cuts corners by trying to speed things up here?

Jay

 

[sc50964]

That always made me scratch my head a bit - he was the person promoting the 76 day fallow period, yet he cuts corners by trying to speed things up here?

Jay

Not sure if Humble is pushing or cutting corner but it certainly caters to ppl who don’t have the time for the right reason.

He offers it up as an alternate method that’s sort the comb on the tradition plus TTM method. It sounds logical to me and I suppose there are different ways of treatment for the same issue from different fish docs.

 

[bushdoc]

As a human doctor I follow protocols proven by time and scientific research rather than following other persons name or method.
As a cautious reefer, I would rather quarantine longer , then add fish to my DT which was not fully eradicated from parasites, later creating havoc in my main tank.
Now and then new methods of treatment of old diseases are being established, but until those methods are proven, reliable and repeatable, I would pass on them.

 

[jmichaelh7]

If ttm , 14 day , 30 day , treat ich successfully that’s all that matters right ?

But 5 days … there is no write up yet I don’t believe will be.

When will someone get the medication to cure ich in 1-2 days. The hobby is waiting to push that stock ten fold

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Not sure if Humble is pushing or cutting corner but it certainly caters to ppl who don’t have the time for the right reason.

He offers it up as an alternate method that’s sort the comb on the tradition plus TTM method. It sounds logical to me and I suppose there are different ways of treatment for the same issue from different fish docs.

I know about his method, I just do not agree that it is a "best practice". You need to be very careful when you read his material. Notice the phrase, "if you wish to try this" ? That implies this is not his standard method. He is offering an alternative, based on some assumptions that *usually* will work. It is in essence, a single move TTM process.

It would be safer if ionic copper was used, amine-based coppers are milder, but take longer to work. You also need to ask yourself the "why" for doing this. Is it just to shorten the quarantine time? "Quarantine" comes from the Italian word "Quaranta", meaning 40. There is a very good reason that many quarantine periods are 40 days....some diseases take that long to manifest themselves. This method is focused on Cryptocaryon, but at the expense of covering other issues well.

All quarantine processes are a contrast between effort and efficacy; lower effort results in lower efficacy. Higher effort is more costly in time and materials, but it is more effective. People draw their own lines all the time. My line is higher than this, but many people don't quarantine at all. This process is somewhere in the middle.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

As a human doctor I follow protocols proven by time and scientific research rather than following other persons name or method.
As a cautious reefer, I would rather quarantine longer , then add fish to my DT which was not fully eradicated from parasites, later creating havoc in my main tank.
Now and then new methods of treatment of old diseases are being established, but until those methods are proven, reliable and repeatable, I would pass on them.

I agree.

To add to that, I am also cautious of over-extrapolation from the published literature. It is very common for some people to read abstracts of fisheries science papers, and then develop some conclusion from it for treating aquarium fish diseases. This is of course one way that new ideas come to light and help us all. However, the process can also fall short. The famous example I give is a paper was published that showed that copper sheeting will kill 100% of ich tomonts on contact. People were all speculating about building quarantine tanks with copper bottoms. However, when I read the methods section, I learned that the researchers were changing 100% of the tank water twice a day to lower the ionic copper levels in the tank (grin).

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

There is no treatment more effective than,cooper?
Did you listen about oxydator?
Found this interesting article :

The ONLY Reef-Safe Ich Treatment in a Display Tank

It's really discouraging to see your aquarium efforts go to waste because of a single parasitic outbreak. A fish with ich. A reef-safe treatment for fish with marine Ich exists but it requires a bit

aquanswers.com

I pretty much wanted to stop reading when I saw this: "I’ve tried what I’m about to describe on two separate aquarium systems and it worked flawlessly both times." A sample size of two is simply not enough to base any conclusions on!

In reading this further (and trying to avoid all the ads) it became apparent that they are promoting using an Oxydator. There are some people here on R2R that support this process and can give you better information about it than this article.

Jay

 

[Superlightman]

I pretty much wanted to stop reading when I saw this: "I’ve tried what I’m about to describe on two separate aquarium systems and it worked flawlessly both times." A sample size of two is simply not enough to base any conclusions on!

In reading this further (and trying to avoid all the ads) it became apparent that they are promoting using an Oxydator. There are some people here on R2R that support this process and can give you better information about it than this article.

Jay

OK thanks, I Germany also it seems to be used a lot with good results. Could be eventually an alternative, but I'm not sure

 

[alicia24]

2023 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough



Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank. This process does not control Brooklynella, Uronema, viruses or internal parasites. These issues however, make up a much smaller number of disease cases in marine fish.

Quarantine tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.

• Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
• The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD
• Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-absorbing sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
• Heater/thermometer
• Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
• Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank.
• A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate.
• A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
• Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.

Days 1 – 2: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.

• Set QT temperature to 78 - 80 degrees F.
• Acclimate the new fish to the QT:
  • Measure salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Adjust salinity in QT to within 2 ppt of the salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Acclimate the fish to the QT gradually over 45 minutes.
• Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
• Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.

Day 2: Begin Copper Treatment

• Add Coppersafe to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.25 to 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.25 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use.
• Never use ammonia removing products or other reducing agents (dechlorinator) when dosing copper. Most products bind copper with an amine to reduce toxicity to the fish. Reducing agents break that bond, releasing free copper that can harm the fish.
• Feed and top off tank water normally.

Days 3 – 32: Continue Copper Treatment

• Monitor copper ppm regularly. If the copper level remains steady day to day, you can test less often, but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you may need to restart the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
• Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
• If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes (pre dosed with copper) to correct the problem.

Day 34: Copper Done

• Begin copper removal through water changes.
• Binding agents Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process.
• Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.

Day 35: Praziquantel Treatment #1

• Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously.
• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label.
• Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.

Day 42, Day 49: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3

• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label, 7 days apart. Spacing needed for these treatments is based on killing new flukes hatching from previously laid eggs. The time interval is not well known. A range of 7 to 9 days seems to give the best results.

Day 64: New Fish QT complete

• Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose. Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10.
• Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
• Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.

Hello,
I have 3 questions. When you say to start copper after the last prazipro dose how long do you wait aftee adding thw prazi pro? Since you said not to do copper and prazipro together I guess I'm wondering how long it takes for the prazipro to be gone.

Why aren't antibacterials given empirically? Is there an antibacterial you would recommend if someone were to do that?

Lastly, my one fish is in an uncycled qt. Just finished copper and I added the prazi. I usually have to change the water once daily or every other day. Just wondering how that affects the prazi dose? Does it take only 24hrs to absorb into the fish or does it tale the full 7 days?