Current Quarantine Protocol

[JohnA26]

The bacteria in the old tank would have died out by now. You would need to fully cycle the tank before putting any fish into it. I prefer using the fishless method, with adding bacteria and ammonia.

The quarantine method outlined here is an active one, you treat the fish before they show disease signs. Once they have gone through that, they can stay in the quarantine tank until the display is ready for them.

Jay

Thank you jay

 

[Bear Claw]

2022 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough



Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank. This process does not control Brooklynella, Uronema, viruses or internal parasites. These issues however, make up a much smaller number of disease cases in marine fish.

Quarantine tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.

• Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
• The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD
• Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-absorbing sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
• Heater/thermometer
• Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
• Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank.
• A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate.
• A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
• Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.

Days 1 – 2: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.

• Set QT temperature to 78 - 80 degrees F.
• Acclimate the new fish to the QT:
  • Measure salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Adjust salinity in QT to within 2 ppt of the salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Acclimate the fish to the QT gradually over 45 minutes.
• Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
• Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.

Day 2: Begin Copper Treatment

• Add Coppersafe to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.50 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use.
• Never use ammonia removing products or other reducing agents (dechlorinator) when dosing copper. Most products bind copper with an amine to reduce toxicity to the fish. Reducing agents break that bond, releasing free copper that can harm the fish.
• Feed and top off tank water normally.

Days 3 – 32: Continue Copper Treatment

• Monitor copper ppm regularly. If the copper level remains steady day to day, you can test less often, but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you may need to restart the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
• Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
• If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes (pre dosed with copper) to correct the problem.

Day 34: Copper Done

• Begin copper removal through water changes.
• Binding agents Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process.
• Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.

Day 35: Praziquantel Treatment #1

• Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously.
• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label.
• Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.

Day 42, Day 49: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3

• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label, 7 days apart. Spacing needed for these treatments is based on killing new flukes hatching from previously laid eggs. The time interval is not well known. A range of 7 to 9 days seems to give the best results.

Day 64: New Fish QT complete

• Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose. Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10.
• Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
• Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.

This is SO helpful!! Thank you! Just a couple questions. What copper should you dose into quarantine tanks and do you need a copper test kit with it? Instead of using prazipro, would Rally pro do the same thing? What is a good HOB filter and light for a 10 gallon quarantine setup? Thanks for the help, this is my first quarantine setup and I want to do it right!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This is SO helpful!! Thank you! Just a couple questions. What copper should you dose into quarantine tanks and do you need a copper test kit with it? Instead of using prazipro, would Rally pro do the same thing? What is a good HOB filter and light for a 10 gallon quarantine setup? Thanks for the help, this is my first quarantine setup and I want to do it right!

I prefer coppersafe, but copper power also works. The best test is the Hanna hr tester, but it’s expensive. The API test is good enough if you are careful.
Rally Pro is not good against flukes, you should use Prazipro or General Cure.
You don’t need a fancy light, ambient room light can be enough. I like to use a sponge filter in addition to a HOB filter.
Jay

 

[Bear Claw]

2022 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough



Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank. This process does not control Brooklynella, Uronema, viruses or internal parasites. These issues however, make up a much smaller number of disease cases in marine fish.

Quarantine tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.

• Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
• The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD
• Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-absorbing sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
• Heater/thermometer
• Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
• Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank.
• A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate.
• A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
• Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.

Days 1 – 2: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.

• Set QT temperature to 78 - 80 degrees F.
• Acclimate the new fish to the QT:
  • Measure salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Adjust salinity in QT to within 2 ppt of the salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Acclimate the fish to the QT gradually over 45 minutes.
• Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
• Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.

Day 2: Begin Copper Treatment

• Add Coppersafe to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.50 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use.
• Never use ammonia removing products or other reducing agents (dechlorinator) when dosing copper. Most products bind copper with an amine to reduce toxicity to the fish. Reducing agents break that bond, releasing free copper that can harm the fish.
• Feed and top off tank water normally.

Days 3 – 32: Continue Copper Treatment

• Monitor copper ppm regularly. If the copper level remains steady day to day, you can test less often, but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you may need to restart the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
• Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
• If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes (pre dosed with copper) to correct the problem.

Day 34: Copper Done

• Begin copper removal through water changes.
• Binding agents Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process.
• Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.

Day 35: Praziquantel Treatment #1

• Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously.
• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label.
• Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.

Day 42, Day 49: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3

• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label, 7 days apart. Spacing needed for these treatments is based on killing new flukes hatching from previously laid eggs. The time interval is not well known. A range of 7 to 9 days seems to give the best results.

Day 64: New Fish QT complete

• Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose. Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10.
• Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
• Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.

Should you cycle the tank? I saw you said to have filtration that has completed the nitrogen cycle but won't the copper and prazipro just kill the nitrifying bacteria?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Should you cycle the tank? I saw you said to have filtration that has completed the nitrogen cycle but won't the copper and prazipro just kill the nitrifying bacteria?

The QT needs to be fully cycled, many people try to "instant cycle" a QT and put fish in right away, but that is a huge mistake....you need a stable biofilter.

Praziquantel has no detrimental effect on the biofilter, and copper has just a minor effect....less than a 25% reduction in efficiency.

Jay

 

[Bear Claw]

The QT needs to be fully cycled, many people try to "instant cycle" a QT and put fish in right away, but that is a huge mistake....you need a stable biofilter.

Praziquantel has no detrimental effect on the biofilter, and copper has just a minor effect....less than a 25% reduction in efficiency.

Jay

Okay thank you! I fully set up the tank about 5 days ago and put fritz turbo start in to fully cycle it. How long would you recommend waiting for a 10 gallon tank before adding fish?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Okay thank you! I fully set up the tank about 5 days ago and put fritz turbo start in to fully cycle it. How long would you recommend waiting for a 10 gallon tank before adding fish?

Sorry, that question can't really be answered - it depends entirely on the bioload that you subject the tank to. If you add one small fish and you have additional Fritz to add if the ammonia starts to rise, you'll be fine. If you add a number of fish, and the Fritz is overwhelmed and the ammonia rises, those fish would be at risk.

In this case, waiting won't make the tank MORE stable, but I can't tell you how stable it is right now.


Jay

 

[ErikVR]

Hi Jay / all,

I'm curious why to start with copper treatment. The most common issue I seem to have with new fish is getting them to eat. Wouldn't starting with praziquantel be the way to go in that particular case?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay / all,

I'm curious why to start with copper treatment. The most common issue I seem to have with new fish is getting them to eat. Wouldn't starting with praziquantel be the way to go in that particular case?

Well, external protozoan infections are typically the first disease you see in new fish, and can kill within a week or even less. If you start with prazi, that leaves the fish vulnerable to protozoan diseases for two weeks, unless you dose both at the same time - some people do that, but it makes me nervous due to the combined stress of two concurrent treatments. Prazi only treats external flukes and tapeworms. These take weeks to months to kill the fish, so I'm inclined to treat for them secondarily.

Getting the fish to eat is a separate matter. If you are working with delicate species that don't feed readily, or are getting poor quality fish, you need to try and overcome those issues before starting the copper treatment. In most cases though, I just give the fish 72 hours to settle in before starting copper.

Jay

 

[ErikVR]

Clear. Thanks.
Honestly, I'm only having feeding issue with dwarf angels and I've only had them from one vendor. I got a replacement fish for one that passed a while ago because he wouldn't eat. The replacement has the same issue. So maybe it's time to switch vendors...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Clear. Thanks.
Honestly, I'm only having feeding issue with dwarf angels and I've only had them from one vendor. I got a replacement fish for one that passed a while ago because he wouldn't eat. The replacement has the same issue. So maybe it's time to switch vendors...

Or switch species? What dwarf angels have you tried? Some are caught with cyanide in SE Asia, and often have difficulty adapting to aquariums. Others are just more delicate all the way around......

Jay

 

[ErikVR]

Or switch species? What dwarf angels have you tried? Some are caught with cyanide in SE Asia, and often have difficulty adapting to aquariums. Others are just more delicate all the way around......

Jay

First one was a centropyge bicolor and the second one a centropyge bispinosus.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

First one was a centropyge bicolor and the second one a centropyge bispinosus.

Bicolors are decidedly more delicate than coral beauties, but both can be absolute horrors if they come from long supply chains in SE Asia. Sourcing good quality fish can be very difficult. Dealers may not know the origins of their fish. When I see a Centropyge for sale in one of the typical big box stores I just cringe. I try to acquire mine anywhere other than from Indonesia and the Philippines. Going with larger fish also seems to help, the small ones are just less sturdy. Seeing the fish eat before you buy it is critical.

Here is a write-up I did on the topic:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/sourcing-marine-fishes-and-invertebrates.875/

Jay

 

[Weeb]

Getting the fish to eat is a separate matter. If you are working with delicate species that don't feed readily, or are getting poor quality fish, you need to try and overcome those issues before starting the copper treatment. In most cases though, I just give the fish 72 hours to settle in before starting copper.

I think this is a key matter. I don't begin the copper treatment until the fish has settled in and I get the fish eating. I give the fish 4 days to eat, unless there are obvious signs of a problem. My 4 days may be different from other hobbyist's 4 days. This is because I intensely devote myself to getting the fish to eat.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I think this is a key matter. I don't begin the copper treatment until the fish has settled in and I get the fish eating. I give the fish 4 days to eat, unless there are obvious signs of a problem. My 4 days may be different from other hobbyist's 4 days. This is because I intensely devote myself to getting the fish to eat.

72 hours or four days, that's only a day's difference. I agree, the fish need to be eating first, UNLESS they arrived sick and that in turn is keeping them from eating (rare, but it happens).

The main issue that I'm trying to correct here is twofold: people who get new fish and then just observe them for two weeks, and then the people who take ten days to slowly ramp up copper levels. These are both errors if people are using coppersafe or copper power....those medications are very mild, but they take a long time to work. I've had cases of advanced Cryptocaryon that coppersafe simply could not stop fast enough. So, I try to not have people let their fish linger and low/no copper too long.

Jay

 

[Alex.qld]

Hello

Firstly, thank you for sharing all this knowledge … and wisdom: it is your comment that we can also enjoy the fish while in QT that made me change my mind and start this process

So my question comes after an issue after praziquantel and concerns before starting copper for a pair of leopard wrasse.

This is my first QT – it was not cycled, but I could not wait to bring home a leopard wrasse pair and 4 gold line cardinal fish. These will go in a 1000 L display with mostly corals and 2 ocellaris, 2 skunk, 2 bangai, 1 lawmower blenny, 1 naso tang, 1 blue tang. Given that the tangs are starting to grow and become precious I decided it is the time to QT.

Since the QT wasn’t cycled, I put a few live rock from the display, a saucer with sand and the fish, ordered some prazipro and copper power and waited for the postman. It has a small overflow with some plastic bioballs and foam and I plan to remove the live rock after a little while. Surely before starting the copper

The fish have been in the tank for 2 weeks with no meds, wrasse eating some, very picky and spitting at times, but after 2 weeks they look healthy and not visibly losing weight. We can hope they are eating well enough.

I have hesitated a lot about the copper because of a conversation on the wrasse’s lover thread that said to be careful with copper. However, after reading this and other threads it seems that it would be safe to medicate with copper using (non-anionic) copper power and dosing it accurately, which I am prepared to do. With the hesitation I decided to do the copper last, which would give more time to cycle the QT.

In the meantime, I decided to start the prazipro as it sounded the safest / easiest treatment. I changed 80% of the water, waited a few hours and put 3 ml prazipro in the water before going to sleep yesterday (5 ml per 20 gallon is the recommended dose ~ 0.066 ml /L >> ~3 ml for 45L of tank water).

In the morning I found one of the wrasses struggling for air, and caught in the small overflow of the QT. The other one was still burrowed in the sand but didn’t look fresh when I first saw her. Given the worrying state at play I did a whole water change. They now look happy and normal.




I assume this was due to low oxygen / bacterial bloom due to the solvent in prazipro –I am a bit biased as this is what I expected. I could have oxygenated a bit better by pointing the return flow upwards, maybe buying a fancy airstone – the current airstone delivers some bubbles so I don’t think this would be a big difference.

Ammonia was 0.

Could the live rock have been the cause of the issue?

So my questions

• 12 hours of prazi of which some in the sand, that does not count as a treatment, does it ?
• Any recommendations before I start the Prazipro again ? should I remove the live rock before that ?
• What do you think of the copper with the leopard wrasse – should I just go ahead and forget the noise or be worried with these fish?

thank you

Alex

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello

Firstly, thank you for sharing all this knowledge … and wisdom: it is your comment that we can also enjoy the fish while in QT that made me change my mind and start this process

So my question comes after an issue after praziquantel and concerns before starting copper for a pair of leopard wrasse.

This is my first QT – it was not cycled, but I could not wait to bring home a leopard wrasse pair and 4 gold line cardinal fish. These will go in a 1000 L display with mostly corals and 2 ocellaris, 2 skunk, 2 bangai, 1 lawmower blenny, 1 naso tang, 1 blue tang. Given that the tangs are starting to grow and become precious I decided it is the time to QT.

Since the QT wasn’t cycled, I put a few live rock from the display, a saucer with sand and the fish, ordered some prazipro and copper power and waited for the postman. It has a small overflow with some plastic bioballs and foam and I plan to remove the live rock after a little while. Surely before starting the copper

The fish have been in the tank for 2 weeks with no meds, wrasse eating some, very picky and spitting at times, but after 2 weeks they look healthy and not visibly losing weight. We can hope they are eating well enough.

I have hesitated a lot about the copper because of a conversation on the wrasse’s lover thread that said to be careful with copper. However, after reading this and other threads it seems that it would be safe to medicate with copper using (non-anionic) copper power and dosing it accurately, which I am prepared to do. With the hesitation I decided to do the copper last, which would give more time to cycle the QT.

In the meantime, I decided to start the prazipro as it sounded the safest / easiest treatment. I changed 80% of the water, waited a few hours and put 3 ml prazipro in the water before going to sleep yesterday (5 ml per 20 gallon is the recommended dose ~ 0.066 ml /L >> ~3 ml for 45L of tank water).

In the morning I found one of the wrasses struggling for air, and caught in the small overflow of the QT. The other one was still burrowed in the sand but didn’t look fresh when I first saw her. Given the worrying state at play I did a whole water change. They now look happy and normal.




I assume this was due to low oxygen / bacterial bloom due to the solvent in prazipro –I am a bit biased as this is what I expected. I could have oxygenated a bit better by pointing the return flow upwards, maybe buying a fancy airstone – the current airstone delivers some bubbles so I don’t think this would be a big difference.

Ammonia was 0.

Could the live rock have been the cause of the issue?

So my questions

• 12 hours of prazi of which some in the sand, that does not count as a treatment, does it ?
• Any recommendations before I start the Prazipro again ? should I remove the live rock before that ?
• What do you think of the copper with the leopard wrasse – should I just go ahead and forget the noise or be worried with these fish?

thank you

Alex

As you may know - Macropharyngodon wrasses have a very high initial mortality rate, many of them die in the first month or two. As food browsers, they would do best in an established aquarium. Trouble is, they are also prone to protozoan infections, so just putting them straight into a mature display tank is not a good idea.

So - what to do? My personal response is that I do not acquire this type of wrasse - the mortality rate is just too high for me.

You are correct, that the solvent in Prazipro scavenges oxygen, and you need very strong aeration when using it - I prefer good air stones. The related issue of carbon dioxide build up is also alleviated by aeration.

The wrasse seemed to react well to the water change, implying that it was an oxygen issue, but what is the ammonia level before and after the water change?

Generally, I do not hold fish in an observational period longer than about 72 hours before starting coppersafe or copper power. There is too much of a risk of a protozoan disease gaining a foothold during that time.

Jay

 

[Alex.qld]

Thanks Jay

- Ammonia was undetectable before and after - i have been quite generous with changing water and have some established live rock in the QT

- I have ordered a fine bubbles airstone and will try again

i didnt realise the high mortality rates for these fish - hopefully these are more resilient as didnt have to travel much from their natural habitat.
lets see if i can get them to survive and make it to the display. It has well established rock that is full of worms, copepods and brittle stars. But before that well have to go through praziquantel again and probably copper

regards

Alexis

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks Jay

- Ammonia was undetectable before and after - i have been quite generous with changing water and have some established live rock in the QT

- I have ordered a fine bubbles airstone and will try again

i didnt realise the high mortality rates for these fish - hopefully these are more resilient as didnt have to travel much from their natural habitat.
lets see if i can get them to survive and make it to the display. It has well established rock that is full of worms, copepods and brittle stars. But before that well have to go through praziquantel again and probably copper

regards

Alexis

I should have looked at your location - the problems we see in the US with these fish stems from the long supply chain…the fish just cannot survive the travel from roving collectors in Indonesia to the export city to the US importer, etc. if you can get these locally sourced in QLD, you’ll have much better luck with these.
Jay

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

I have a flame angel, royal gramma, and carpenters flasher wrasse in QT. The angel and wrasse are doing great, swim around together, eat, not shy after a couple days already, but the gramma...

The gramma disappeared after being in the tank for a couple minutes, and I didn't see it for 3 days. It constantly sleeps under cover of chaeto, sea lettuce or PVC, I have not seen it eat yet.

The couple times I have seen it awake briefly, it looks like it might have a couple white spots, and it yawned really big once.

When should I start copper? Usually I do the day after the fish are acting like they have adjusted, but I don't think the gramma is going to, and I think I need to get my medications going.

Any advice?