A few questions about quarantine specifically copperband

[Linden13]

I'm thinking about getting and doing the quarantine procedure recommended on here. I have never done any fish treatment on saltwater fish. I did on freshwater many years ago so I was hoping to get a few questions answered and maybe some helpful tips.

1. For a copperband is the 63 day or the quicker 45 day procedure better?

2. I was thinking using a 10 gallon tank for QT and using display tank water during. Is display water ok or should I use new saltwater?

3. During copper treatment is salifert copper test ok? I dont plan on doing anymore qt on fish after or I would buy the hanna checker I was hoping not to spend $80 on one just to use one time.

4. Should I get the fish eating first and watch it before treatment or immediately start treatment?

 

[MnFish1]

I'm thinking about getting and doing the quarantine procedure recommended on here. I have never done any fish treatment on saltwater fish. I did on freshwater many years ago so I was hoping to get a few questions answered and maybe some helpful tips.

1. For a copperband is the 63 day or the quicker 45 day procedure better?

I would use the procedure as written in the sticky at the top of there fish disease forum. And I'm not sure about the '63 day' protocol or a '45 day protocol' - are you thinking of leaving a tank fallow>

2. I was thinking using a 10 gallon tank for QT and using display tank water during. Is display water ok or should I use new saltwater?

it wouldn't matter as long as you're doing a copper-based quarantine.

3. During copper treatment is salifert copper test ok? I dont plan on doing anymore qt on fish after or I would buy the hanna checker I was hoping not to spend $80 on one just to use one time.

The hanna checker is the recommended one.

4. Should I get the fish eating first and watch it before treatment or immediately start treatment?

Immediately start treatment - If you don't see any spots, etc, you could ramp up the copper over a couple days - but in general you can just start it up.

 

[exnisstech]

For a CBB I would set up a tank with some live rock for grazing and to make a more natural setting. I would then observe the fish and train it to eat what you feed. Mine would only eat frozen or live. Once its eating well and has plenty of bulk then proceed with medicating if you feel the need. More newly added CBBs die from starvation than disease, at least that's my take away from reading posts about them here for a few years. I'll also mention just because the fish is eating where you buy it is no guarantee it will continue to eat when added to your tank, especially if it is added to an unnatural setting like a tank with PVC fittings.

This was my observation tank I used for my last CBB.

My pair in the DT

Edit: Many say not starting medication immediately waste valuable time if the fish is diseased. I figure a fish malnourished as many CBBs are when purchased will most likely die of malnutrition because if they aren't eating well they sure are not going to start eating in a tank full of copper and PVC fittings.
I don't know which is right or wrong. I suppose people just have to make a choice of what they feel is best for their fish.

 

[MnFish1]

For a CBB I would set up a tank with some live rock for grazing and to make a more natural setting. I would then observe the fish and train it to eat what you feed. Mine would only eat frozen or live. Once its eating well and has plenty of bulk then proceed with medicating if you feel the need. More newly added CBBs die from starvation than disease, at least that's my take away from reading posts about them here for a few years. I'll also mention just because the fish is eating where you buy it is no guarantee it will continue to eat when added to your tank, especially if it is added to an unnatural setting like a tank with PVC fittings.

This was my observation tank I used for my last CBB.

My pair in the DT

Nice fish!! I'm going to disagree slightly with you, in Principle, but one can certainly try an observation quarantine. One problem with this is some fish are carrying the disease, and you cant see it, and they are not showing symptoms. When you add them to your tank, they are potentially going to expose your old fish to whatever they have. I don't personally believe (though many do) that there is any difference in using PVC piping, vs live rock - except that live rock may make ammonia control easier (ie. better water quality). Again. not a debate just my opinion. Probably based mostly on the feeling that copper bands (for me) have not been any more or less delicate that other fish for the most part.

 

[slingfox]

I put my Copperband into medicated QT without any issues whatsoever. I also used a 10g tank with a Seachem Tidal 55 HOB (technically oversized but if using a HOB you want the largest you can fit in the tank). You should purchase some blackout window film and black out three sides of the tank since this helps reduce chances of snout damage and helps the fish feel safer (got the idea from Marine Collectors which specializes in QT’ing fish). My QT had nothing in it other than 2 large 3-in PVC elbows. I put in a clams every few days (removed after 24 hours and fed the remainder to my tank) and also fed mysis or brine on days with no clam.

Get a Hanna checker to test copper levels. This is a must if running medicated QT.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm thinking about getting and doing the quarantine procedure recommended on here. I have never done any fish treatment on saltwater fish. I did on freshwater many years ago so I was hoping to get a few questions answered and maybe some helpful tips.

1. For a copperband is the 63 day or the quicker 45 day procedure better?

2. I was thinking using a 10 gallon tank for QT and using display tank water during. Is display water ok or should I use new saltwater?

3. During copper treatment is salifert copper test ok? I dont plan on doing anymore qt on fish after or I would buy the hanna checker I was hoping not to spend $80 on one just to use one time.

4. Should I get the fish eating first and watch it before treatment or immediately start treatment?

These fish respond well to copper safe at 2.25ppm for 30 days

 

[Linden13]

I would use the procedure as written in the sticky at the top of there fish disease forum. And I'm not sure about the '63 day' protocol or a '45 day protocol' - are you thinking of leaving a tank fallow>

it wouldn't matter as long as you're doing a copper-based quarantine.

The hanna checker is the recommended one.

Immediately start treatment - If you don't see any spots, etc, you could ramp up the copper over a couple days - but in general you can just start it up.

Sorry I should have been more clear on which procedure to use. I was going to follow the updated procedure it says there are 3 different options.

 

[gabriellar]

if you are deciding to use 10 gallon tank as quarantine tank, make sure you keep a close eye on any potential ammonia spike in the water due to feeding.

 

[exnisstech]

Nice fish!! I'm going to disagree slightly with you, in Principle, but one can certainly try an observation quarantine. One problem with this is some fish are carrying the disease, and you cant see it, and they are not showing symptoms. When you add them to your tank, they are potentially going to expose your old fish to whatever they have. I don't personally believe (though many do) that there is any difference in using PVC piping, vs live rock - except that live rock may make ammonia control easier (ie. better water quality). Again. not a debate just my opinion. Probably based mostly on the feeling that copper bands (for me) have not been any more or less delicate that other fish for the most part.

I edited my post with my thoughts. Not arguing or saying anyone is right or wrong. Like many things in the hobby what works for some doesn't work for all. I felt like a fish killer when I was proactively treating all new arrivals with copper so I stopped. I keep a 40g breeder running permanently that is a mixed reef and serves as my observation tank. All new arrivals spend s minimum of 30 days and if I see no signs of disease and they are swimming to the front of the tank to eat when I approach then In place them in an acclimation box and later into the DT. I haven't lost a fish in observation but I lost so many in QT that i couldn't continue. We have enough QT vs non QT arguments so I'm not trying to start another.
I agree CBB are not delicate fish once acclimated and eating but many do not eat and starve so I'm Just offering suggestion on has worked for me. I've been through velvet so I'm aware the risks involved not medicating.

PS I'm sure my failure at medicated QT was most likely my fault but I could not figure out what I was doing wrong so I stopped. I do not recommend anyone not medicate if they feel the need.

 

[Linden13]

Thank you everyone

It sounding like the hanna checker is a must and the salifert test kit will not do the job.

Just to clarify the fish will be going into my established display tank after qt. It's a mixed reef around 180 gallons. Most of the have been purchased from Dr. Reef except the first few when I started reefing a about 3 years ago.

 

[slingfox]

Thank you everyone

It sounding like the hanna checker is a must and the salifert test kit will not do the job.

Just to clarify the fish will be going into my established display tank after qt. It's a mixed reef around 180 gallons. Most of the have been purchased from Dr. Reef except the first few when I started reefing an about 3 years ago.

As noted by @gabriellar if using a newly setup 10g for quarantine, you need to keep an eye on ammonia levels. For that purpose I use a Seachem Ammonia Alert badge. If my QT tank goes offline, I put the filter sponge into a 1gallon bucket with saltwater for later use.

 

[Linden13]

I was planning on putting the hob filter sponge in display sump prior to setting up qt and also putting in a few pieces of rock from the sump. Would a 20 gal tank be a better choice

 

[slingfox]

I was planning on putting the hob filter sponge in display sump prior to setting up qt and also putting in a few pieces of rock from the sump. Would a 20 gal tank be a better choice

If y out are confident your display tank doesn’t have any fish disease that should be firm. Once the sponge is in QT and exposed to meds you likely don’t want it to touch the DT anymore. It is not recommended to add rock or sand (except potentially a small amount for wrasse) to a QT tank since they can absorb the meds which can make it more challenging to keep copper and other meds at therapeutics levels.

 

[W31Olds]

I put my Copperband into medicated QT without any issues whatsoever. I also used a 10g tank with a Seachem Tidal 55 HOB (technically oversized but if using a HOB you want the largest you can fit in the tank). You should purchase some blackout window film and black out three sides of the tank since this helps reduce chances of snout damage and helps the fish feel safer (got the idea from Marine Collectors which specializes in QT’ing fish). My QT had nothing in it other than 2 large 3-in PVC elbows. I put in a clams every few days (removed after 24 hours and fed the remainder to my tank) and also fed mysis or brine on days with no clam.

Get a Hanna checker to test copper levels. This is a must if running medicated QT.

Sling, never put leftover food from your QT Tank into your DT. Very risky to say the least. Parasite Eggs are not affected by Copper meds or Prazi and you could introduce one into your DT.
For the OP, plan on more than one CB. They are very hit or miss and this and other Forums are full of Members seeking help to save sick ones. For full duration QT, I would go with at least a 20G long and get some bagged Media cycling in your DT's Sump to have a biofilter ready.

 

[slingfox]

Sling, never put leftover food from your QT Tank into your DT. Very risky to say the least. Parasite Eggs are not affected by Copper meds or Prazi and you could introduce one into your DT.
For the OP, plan on more than one CB. They are very hit or miss and this and other Forums are full of Members seeking help to save sick ones. For full duration QT, I would go with at least a 20G long and get some bagged Media cycling in your DT's Sump to have a biofilter ready.

Good catch on feeding leftover food. I agree it is a bad idea to be avoided!

 

[Linden13]

Sling, never put leftover food from your QT Tank into your DT. Very risky to say the least. Parasite Eggs are not affected by Copper meds or Prazi and you could introduce one into your DT.
For the OP, plan on more than one CB. They are very hit or miss and this and other Forums are full of Members seeking help to save sick ones. For full duration QT, I would go with at least a 20G long and get some bagged Media cycling in your DT's Sump to have a biofilter ready.

Should I do 2 copperbands at the same time? or just if the first doesnt make it.
And if 2 at the same time separate them in the same tank or together is fine?

In my research for the CBB I have seen many people having trouble that's part of the reason for me asking hear to try and get a good plan and as much info I can get before I even get the fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I'm thinking about getting and doing the quarantine procedure recommended on here. I have never done any fish treatment on saltwater fish. I did on freshwater many years ago so I was hoping to get a few questions answered and maybe some helpful tips.

1. For a copperband is the 63 day or the quicker 45 day procedure better?

2. I was thinking using a 10 gallon tank for QT and using display tank water during. Is display water ok or should I use new saltwater?

3. During copper treatment is salifert copper test ok? I dont plan on doing anymore qt on fish after or I would buy the hanna checker I was hoping not to spend $80 on one just to use one time.

4. Should I get the fish eating first and watch it before treatment or immediately start treatment?

I’m not a fan of quarantining copperbands in such a small tank. I’d opt for a 20 long at a minimum.

The biggest issue with CBB is getting a good one. I now only buy Australian ones, they are handled better than the SE Asian ones. You need to see it steel in the store before you buy it. Any thinness, bumped snout or other defect would be a rule out.

I suspect that the 40 day mortality rate for CBB from SE Asia is well north of 50%. If you follow good advice and are careful, you can still expect a 25% mortality rate.

1) i’d opt for the faster method.
2) I’d use a larger tank.
3) if I recall correctly, the Salifert test doesn’t range into the 2.5 ppm range needed for this method. You might be able to do a 50% dilution, run the test, then double your results.
4) since it needs to be feeding in the store first, just let it settle in for 24 hours and start the process.

 

[W31Olds]

I would do just one but you may lose him and need to get another one. The most important thing with CB's is to see them eating before you purchase one.

 

[slingfox]

Assuming you only want one Copperband at the end, I would also only do one.

 

[exnisstech]

Should I do 2 copperbands at the same time? or just if the first doesnt make it.
And if 2 at the same time separate them in the same tank or together is fine?

In my research for the CBB I have seen many people having trouble that's part of the reason for me asking hear to try and get a good plan and as much info I can get before I even get the fish.

Do not do two at once. CBBs do not change sex like some fish and two males or two females will likely fight. When I introduced my male I made the mistake of not using an acclimation box and my female immediately pinned the male in a corner and would have killed him if I hadn't intervened. It took over a month for him to heal. I was able to pair them after reintroducing him in an acclimation box. I had live rock in the acclimation box to try for a more natural feel. When I feed the tank I fed the box and all the other fish fed on the food that came out of the box so it gave the CBB the illusion he was being successful competing with my tangs for food. I think it helped give the fish confidence to aggressively go after food when it was released.

This was a few minutes after I removed the lid from the box and the female swam in, introduced herself and escorted the male out. I'm funny and just can't stand watching fish in a bare tanks with PVC even tho it obviously can work.