Cuttlefish and smaller fish such as a tail spot blenny

[Bryce M.]

Has anyone had experience with this? A dwarf cuttle sounds like a fun challenge but I don't want it to eat any of my fish, haven't found anything that they are pred towards anything but inverts

 

[Thales]

They will likely eat your fish. Sometimes you see people that say it works, but generally it ends up only working until the fish eats eaten.

 

[Thales]

Here is the first article I wrote about them. I think there are several others I the site as well.
http://packedhead.net/2005/keeping-and-breeding-the-dwarf-cuttlefish-sepia-bandensis/

 

[Bryce M.]

They will likely eat your fish. Sometimes you see people that say it works, but generally it ends up only working until the fish eats eaten.

Ah, thank you. I know every fish is different, I know people that have had Zebra Morays go rouge and eat every fish in their tank (probably due to minimal feeding). I feed a lot (lots of work to keep up but it's worth it) just to make sure nothing eats anything but like a cuttlefish I'm worried if it's going to tempted no matter what. Thank you for the reply

 

[Richard Hercher]

Has anyone had experience with this? A dwarf cuttle sounds like a fun challenge but I don't want it to eat any of my fish, haven't found anything that they are pred towards anything but inverts

Have you looked for Laura Birenbaum’s MACNA talks?

 

[Bryce M.]

Here is the first article I wrote about them. I think there are several others I the site as well.
http://packedhead.net/2005/keeping-and-breeding-the-dwarf-cuttlefish-sepia-bandensis/

I just read that article 5 minutes ago!

 

[Bryce M.]

Have you looked for Laura Birenbaum’s MACNA talks?

No I have not, I'll watch when I get home tonight

 

[lion king]

If you keep one long enough to get big enough, they will eat anything up to 3 maybe 4" and are insatiable. They are very difficult to keep, they do not ship well, so hatching them is the best way to go. You can search for my post when I hatched, I have a much better and inexpenzive way of raising them. They are extremely sensitive to any water chemistry changes at all and require a tank with low flow and any intakes protected.

 

[Thales]

I just read that article 5 minutes ago!

Sweet.
Here is one more geared to larger scale breeding and keeping
http://packedhead.net/2010/display-husbandry-and-breeding-of-dwarf-cuttle/
and here is a new version of the first one
http://packedhead.net/2009/sepia-bandensis-husbandry-and-breeding/

 

[lion king]

Sweet.
Here is one more geared to larger scale breeding and keeping
http://packedhead.net/2010/display-husbandry-and-breeding-of-dwarf-cuttle/
and here is a new version of the first one
http://packedhead.net/2009/sepia-bandensis-husbandry-and-breeding/

If you follow this method of raising hatchlings, you will spend much more than $1000 just raising a couple. That's the same info that has been recycled for almost 20 years. Setting up a refugium style tank with copepods and amphipods and maybe replenish your amphipods a couple of times you'll likely spend $200-300 before you get them eating other foods, like ghosties and guppies.

 

[Thales]

Or just buy 1000 amphipods for 29 bucks on line, which weren't available when I wrote the articles. Or collect what you can, or wean onto frozen like the articles talk about.

 

[Thales]

They are extremely sensitive to any water chemistry changes at all and require a tank with low flow

I don't really agree with these two statements. These cuttles are pretty hardy, we used to think they weren't but the was likely shipping problems. Most mortality now adays seems due to feeding issues, feeding 'bad' food like brine, or not enough food. The low flow was something some thought early on, but higher flow keeps non living food in suspension which makes it more likely that hatchlings will eat it - this is discussed in detail in the TFH article. Also, these are reef animals and deal with reef currents. They can swim just fine in flow, and behave much more the way they do in the wild.
Happy cuttling!

 

[Bryce M.]

I don't really agree with these two statements. These cuttles are pretty hardy, we used to think they weren't but the was likely shipping problems. Most mortality now adays seems due to feeding issues, feeding 'bad' food like brine, or not enough food. The low flow was something some thought early on, but higher flow keeps non living food in suspension which makes it more likely that hatchlings will eat it - this is discussed in detail in the TFH article. Also, these are reef animals and deal with reef currents. They can swim just fine in flow, and behave much more the way they do in the wild.
Happy cuttling!

Might try one once I set up a 60 frag tank I'm planning after my corals grow more. Just keep it in their

 

[lion king]

I don't really agree with these two statements. These cuttles are pretty hardy, we used to think they weren't but the was likely shipping problems. Most mortality now adays seems due to feeding issues, feeding 'bad' food like brine, or not enough food. The low flow was something some thought early on, but higher flow keeps non living food in suspension which makes it more likely that hatchlings will eat it - this is discussed in detail in the TFH article. Also, these are reef animals and deal with reef currents. They can swim just fine in flow, and behave much more the way they do in the wild.
Happy cuttling!

I've hatched several clutches. Many losses occurred after water changes, sometimes with only the alk being the chemistry out of whack. Large water changes also produced deaths, likely due the extreme drop in nitrates and phosphates, much like clams. I can not count the number of fatalities from being sucked up in an overflow. Some just from cleaning the filter and the increase of flow from cleaning. They tend to lounge around alot and when they are small to even medium size can unwittingly get sucked up. It's not they cant handle the flow, it's the unnatural suction of a pump or powerhead that causes the problem.

 

[Thales]

I've hatched several clutches.

I have hatched over a hundred clutches. :D

Many losses occurred after water changes, sometimes with only the alk being the chemistry out of whack. Large water changes also produced deaths, likely due the extreme drop in nitrates and phosphates, much like clams.

I would be interested in the alk numbers for before and after the water change. Why are you doing big enough water changes to radically change parameters? Extreme changes seem bad for everything, so I don't think this is evidence for these being 'extremely sensitive'.

I can not count the number of fatalities from being sucked up in an overflow. Some just from cleaning the filter and the increase of flow from cleaning. They tend to lounge around alot and when they are small to even medium size can unwittingly get sucked up. It's not they cant handle the flow, it's the unnatural suction of a pump or powerhead that causes the problem.

This seems like keeper error in not setting the tank up appropriately for hatchling cuttles. There are many easy ways to address those problems. Open cell foam around any pump intakes and in front of any overflows is the easiest.
You did say earlier that they can't handle the flow, so I am a bit confused.

 

[lion king]

I have hatched over a hundred clutches. :D



I would be interested in the alk numbers for before and after the water change. Why are you doing big enough water changes to radically change parameters? Extreme changes seem bad for everything, so I don't think this is evidence for these being 'extremely sensitive'.



This seems like keeper error in not setting the tank up appropriately for hatchling cuttles. There are many easy ways to address those problems. Open cell foam around any pump intakes and in front of any overflows is the easiest.
You did say earlier that they can't handle the flow, so I am a bit confused.

This may seem common knowledge to you, but not to the common hobbyist, these guys do consider special care. I can do huge water changes on some of my tanks, especially fowlrs and some reefs depending on what I am keeping, with no ill effects. Sometimes people get behind in water changes and feel the need to catch up, or deal with excessive nutrient problems. Where a 20-25% water change may be fine in some cases, with these guys not so. The alk difference was about 2.

I said low flow with intakes covered, it's all in the interpretation. If a hobbyist puts a pair of mp40s in a tank, they are likely going to get sucked up. It's always user error due to not considering all the possibilities.

I am still miffed that the same old methods are being passed down that are expensive and results in low end positive results. It's so easy to hatch out in a 20l macro algae tank, separate those of similar size(you will get cannibalism)and transfer a pair to a 40B.

I know it's not that popular to keep these guys, but there should be more simple, inexpensive, and successful methods being passed on. I am not saying my way is the best way and certainly not the only way.

 

[Thales]

This may seem common knowledge to you, but not to the common hobbyist, these guys do consider special care.

Yep. That’s why I don’t recommend these animals for inexperienced people. You should already have a saltwater thumb before keeping animals like this.

I can do huge water changes on some of my tanks, especially fowlrs and some reefs depending on what I am keeping, with no ill effects. Sometimes people get behind in water changes and feel the need to catch up, or deal with excessive nutrient problems. Where a 20-25% water change may be fine in some cases, with these guys not so. The alk difference was about 2.

2 dkh? What range?
As long a parameters are not goofy, I have never seen a proble with water changes on these animals.

I said low flow with intakes covered, it's all in the interpretation.

Sure - but the idea that they need low flow is incorrect. This is a myth I have been trying to correct since the outset of my work with this species.

I am still miffed that the same old methods are being passed down that are expensive and results in low end positive results. It's so easy to hatch out in a 20l macro algae tank, separate those of similar size(you will get cannibalism)and transfer a pair to a 40B.

I’m still miffed that people that dismiss the ‘same old methods’ don’t seem to actually understand those methods and where they came from. We started doing what you are suggesting, and moved away from it for reasons explained in the articles. Also, you have mentioned expensive several times, but that is only one of the ways to raise these animals - also discussed in the articles.

I know it's not that popular to keep these guys, but there should be more simple, inexpensive, and successful methods being passed on. I am not saying my way is the best way and certainly not the only way.

Putting eggs in a net breeder, letting them hatch, and live in there in close proximity to food seems pretty simple, inexpensive and seems to be more successful than the refugium method for the reasons outlined in the articles. What are you seeing that I am missing?

 

[Thales]

It's so easy to hatch out in a 20l macro algae tank, separate those of similar size(you will get cannibalism)and transfer a pair to a 40B.

Sorry I missed this before. If you are getting cannibalism, you aren't feeding enough. This is one of the problems of keeping hatchlings in a bigger system - you don't know how much food they are getting how often. As soon as I started sequestering them in a smaller container, and making sure they were eating several times a day, cannibalism stopped.

 

[Thomashtom]

I have hatched over a hundred clutches. :D



I would be interested in the alk numbers for before and after the water change. Why are you doing big enough water changes to radically change parameters? Extreme changes seem bad for everything, so I don't think this is evidence for these being 'extremely sensitive'.



This seems like keeper error in not setting the tank up appropriately for hatchling cuttles. There are many easy ways to address those problems. Open cell foam around any pump intakes and in front of any overflows is the easiest.
You did say earlier that they can't handle the flow, so I am a bit confused.

Hi Thales , i guess your not on Tonmo much anymore i started a conversation with you in regard to cuttles and you never responded?

 

[Thales]

Hi Thales , i guess your not on Tonmo much anymore i started a conversation with you in regard to cuttles and you never responded?

I've been hiding a lot the last 6 months, still off and on. I just responded. Thanks!