Cycle Day 23....Am I ready for something yet?
- Thread starter Reefrookie733
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your cycle is done, no boosted cycle takes past ten or twelve days. didnt we already troubleshoot this cycle in another thread, and call it done
nitrite doesnt factor in updated cycling science. it did in old cycling science. they're able to start reef conventions with 400 reefs and nobody misses the starting Friday, or needs 20 extra days for params to line out. (mentioned only to show practical application of updated cycle closed measures)
your steps due: change out all or most of your algae water/wastewater and begin reefing, whatever you add will live/choose fish timing based on disease protocols. since you have any nitrite at all, we can tell you didnt add dead bottle bac, so you're cycled because no boosted cycle takes longer than a few days, we've already seen extensive ammonia testing threads for each brand available. nitrite compliance was not factored in recent bottle bac testing, its been factored out with 2020 cycling science. and for thousands of fish-in cycles where fish aren't burnt by nitrite, or ammonia. (ammonia burned fish die they dont act normal and eat day to day)
would your reef have made a MACNA start date on time if invited? If we claim it wouldnt have, whats missing from your arrangment to make a start date on a day you select?
in the end what you can practically do or not do matters too in cycle assessment. Depending on who's cycling rules you follow, you make the start date or not what the aquarium did with ammonia never was in question. remember that convention cycles aren't weak, they're very strong which is why a fifty thousand dollar reef + fish + corals + inverts doesnt die when they move it to the convention, or pack it all up and move it home and skip the cycle there too.
nitrite doesnt factor in updated cycling science. it did in old cycling science. they're able to start reef conventions with 400 reefs and nobody misses the starting Friday, or needs 20 extra days for params to line out. (mentioned only to show practical application of updated cycle closed measures)
your steps due: change out all or most of your algae water/wastewater and begin reefing, whatever you add will live/choose fish timing based on disease protocols. since you have any nitrite at all, we can tell you didnt add dead bottle bac, so you're cycled because no boosted cycle takes longer than a few days, we've already seen extensive ammonia testing threads for each brand available. nitrite compliance was not factored in recent bottle bac testing, its been factored out with 2020 cycling science. and for thousands of fish-in cycles where fish aren't burnt by nitrite, or ammonia. (ammonia burned fish die they dont act normal and eat day to day)
would your reef have made a MACNA start date on time if invited? If we claim it wouldnt have, whats missing from your arrangment to make a start date on a day you select?
in the end what you can practically do or not do matters too in cycle assessment. Depending on who's cycling rules you follow, you make the start date or not what the aquarium did with ammonia never was in question. remember that convention cycles aren't weak, they're very strong which is why a fifty thousand dollar reef + fish + corals + inverts doesnt die when they move it to the convention, or pack it all up and move it home and skip the cycle there too.
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Reefrookie733
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I just wanted to confirm. I don't want to kill anything that i put in it. There were some responses as to just go ahead an put fish in and some that said give it another week. So i erred to the side of caution and waited. Now i will decide what to put in. I think the corals to start was a good idea, unfortunately i live in a area where there is little to no reef clubs or groups that i am aware of. This always helped in the past to do some trading or attend some frag fests.
But thank you for your input
Erring on the side of caution will take you far in this hobby 
I've never ran into a reefer that regretted going slow, but plenty that paid the price for trying to go as fast as possible. Sorry about the lack of reef groups in your area
I've never ran into a reefer that regretted going slow, but plenty that paid the price for trying to go as fast as possible. Sorry about the lack of reef groups in your area
It makes the choice in how to cycle very hard when nearly all prior material seems to contradict new directions advised, agreed it does.
add to the fact the top microbiologist in reefing says nitrite matters but random joe429 off the web, a drone nerd, says it doesn’t. Chips are stacked against lol but that doesn’t mean we don’t find our own truth pellets along the way, by watching web patterns. I read about nitrite’s neutrality in this chem forum years ago, and began testing it constantly in my friends cycling pico reefs/ most picos from nano-reef.com.
pico reefs make very special cycling test beds, no dilution padding. What matters and what doesn’t matter in cycling becomes apparent when no reefs die after 120 months of online testing all logged.
In my opinion it’s just a fun race to decode and transmit ways we see people benefiting from new cycling approaches. like computer data and write speed increases per year, reef cycling is doing the same it’s like a Moore’s law for reef cycling
add to the fact the top microbiologist in reefing says nitrite matters but random joe429 off the web, a drone nerd, says it doesn’t. Chips are stacked against lol but that doesn’t mean we don’t find our own truth pellets along the way, by watching web patterns. I read about nitrite’s neutrality in this chem forum years ago, and began testing it constantly in my friends cycling pico reefs/ most picos from nano-reef.com.
pico reefs make very special cycling test beds, no dilution padding. What matters and what doesn’t matter in cycling becomes apparent when no reefs die after 120 months of online testing all logged.
In my opinion it’s just a fun race to decode and transmit ways we see people benefiting from new cycling approaches. like computer data and write speed increases per year, reef cycling is doing the same it’s like a Moore’s law for reef cycling
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Reefrookie733
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Well t
well there obi-wan I went to a FS.....not really a LFS since it’s 2 hours away and took some water from my tank to see if their test (which are supposedly better than the norm) and mine were similar at this point, and the manager there tellS me my nitrites we’re still way too high and It would be toxic to put fish in at this time??? My nitrites were measuring around 5ppm about the same in my pics, so I don’t understand how my tank is not cycled when I had quite a few on here (specialists) tell me it was. Guess there’s more variance than I thought....was a sad, empty drive back...lol
How was this possible
www.reef2reef.com
nitrite is critical in freshwater, thats where they’re getting the notion from
nitrite is neutral in reefing, due to saltwater chemistry and animal receptor interactions unique to saltwater environs
it has zero bearing, impact or measure even during a cycle for a reef tank, opposite from freshwater
even when Dr Tim said it does matter, we make threads that show it doesn’t by the hundreds/all handy avail. Classic evolution of rules. In 1997 you weren’t even allowed to not have a DSB all green and black in the cross section. Nowadays we go instantly bare bottom with any reef and skip the cycle, times are changing.
that above was a skip cycle using cheap biospira.
Bio-spira works great
I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.
www.reef2reef.com
nitrite is critical in freshwater, thats where they’re getting the notion from
nitrite is neutral in reefing, due to saltwater chemistry and animal receptor interactions unique to saltwater environs
it has zero bearing, impact or measure even during a cycle for a reef tank, opposite from freshwater
even when Dr Tim said it does matter, we make threads that show it doesn’t by the hundreds/all handy avail. Classic evolution of rules. In 1997 you weren’t even allowed to not have a DSB all green and black in the cross section. Nowadays we go instantly bare bottom with any reef and skip the cycle, times are changing.
that above was a skip cycle using cheap biospira.
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Your tank aligns nearly perfectly with this cycling chart I thought that’s neat. Your bottom end ammonia might not align (welcome, non seneye false read) but it’s downslope sure does, the other two params simply don’t matter in 2020 or to any aquarium at MACNA or when your lfs takes down a reef for cleaning and then puts it back together. You are in nitrite downslope clearly, but you could have started earlier, Ike did day one but he also used skip cycling bacteria, and no fish or anemones were burnt, a made up consequence for not following arbitrary cycling rules.
I’m so confused. Back in my day (2 years ago? Lol) it was same as FW. Fishless. Dose ammonia/NH3Cl; test with cheap API ammonia and nitrite kits until zero, then voila.
I know NO2 is way less toxic in SW. in fact, a remedy for nitrite spikes in fw aquaria is to add NaCl or KCl—the chloride outcompetes NO2 at the gills, reducing toxicity.
I know NO2 is way less toxic in SW. in fact, a remedy for nitrite spikes in fw aquaria is to add NaCl or KCl—the chloride outcompetes NO2 at the gills, reducing toxicity.
rmurken thats neat I hadn’t heard of that freshwater offset it makes good sense. We noticed in the hobby these ways classic cycles were getting skipped (like the post above, instant dry reefing) at conventions, fish-in cycles, and after deconstruction thats how they’ve been pulling off quick cycles for marine tanks, now we just use that as the standard.
he has shown ammonia to go down, thats the prudent proofing required to avoid guessing, this tank is tested ready to go. Done right.
Waiting 30 days doesn’t have a benefit to waiting 5 days with one day cycle bac in place...specifically in Ike’s thread above, he added a full reef day one and its fine now months later (proof that skip cycles arent weak, and no anemone tolerates ammonia burning so by simple pictures we can see nothing was burnt above)
ike could have also added the bac, waited a month for nitrite to catch up and add the items, same outcome. Bottle bac works. Reef rookie has been sold instant start bottle bac and then told to doubt it because both parties are using opposite measures than we’re applying, and documenting, here.
anyone who gets invited to take their reef to a convention for show should not consult that LFS for move techniques, they’ll miss the start date by a month. They’ll bring a nitrite-compliant reef long after the convention has fully shut down and gone home.
my second bane of reefing is people selling and buying bottle bac to unstick cycles. It’s a total ripoff. By following old 3 param rules and by using ammonia kits that almost never show true compliance, even in matured tanks (classic api .25 posts on google) we are set up to keep refunding bottle bac sellers to address a condition that doesn’t occur.
old cycling rules are taking money from people falsely.
he has shown ammonia to go down, thats the prudent proofing required to avoid guessing, this tank is tested ready to go. Done right.
Waiting 30 days doesn’t have a benefit to waiting 5 days with one day cycle bac in place...specifically in Ike’s thread above, he added a full reef day one and its fine now months later (proof that skip cycles arent weak, and no anemone tolerates ammonia burning so by simple pictures we can see nothing was burnt above)
ike could have also added the bac, waited a month for nitrite to catch up and add the items, same outcome. Bottle bac works. Reef rookie has been sold instant start bottle bac and then told to doubt it because both parties are using opposite measures than we’re applying, and documenting, here.
anyone who gets invited to take their reef to a convention for show should not consult that LFS for move techniques, they’ll miss the start date by a month. They’ll bring a nitrite-compliant reef long after the convention has fully shut down and gone home.
my second bane of reefing is people selling and buying bottle bac to unstick cycles. It’s a total ripoff. By following old 3 param rules and by using ammonia kits that almost never show true compliance, even in matured tanks (classic api .25 posts on google) we are set up to keep refunding bottle bac sellers to address a condition that doesn’t occur.
old cycling rules are taking money from people falsely.
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Reefrookie733
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Well even if i am at the ready stage it won't help me. She wouldn't/won't sell me anything till my nitrites go down. Conundrum.....lol
her holding true to store’s best practice, ok Id shop there. Just because we use science to do to reef cycles what they do to computing every two years doesn’t mean people are ready to quick buck the system. Kudos to them for being consistent in what they advise.
i truly bet the nitrite bottoms legit within two days / soon
i truly bet the nitrite bottoms legit within two days / soon
Good on them- you should be happy to know you have a LFS that cares about your animals and wants you to succeed long term. It might seem frustrating right now, but trust me, you have no idea how many hobbyists aren't so lucky to have a LFS that doesn't just see them as a walking wallet
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Reefrookie733
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Trust me I'm not really in that much of a hurry. I used to cycle 20 years ago would be 2-3 months. Just frustrated that I thought dr. Tim's was a 7-8 day thing based on most reviews...mined just taking longer. That's ok I know I'll be ready soon.
By the way when is a good time to pit my skimmer in the sump? After I add something??
And thanks for all y'alls advice. Its helpful
By the way when is a good time to pit my skimmer in the sump? After I add something??
And thanks for all y'alls advice. Its helpful
Agree with @andrewey and would get the skimmer going now. Just don’t expect to skim much. But if nothing else it’ll break it in and also keep your dO2 up, which definitely won’t hurt your cycle.
Yeah it definitely helps. It doesn’t take much salt in a FW tank, either.
For my reef tank, I used Seachem stability and got a 15lb hunk of live rock. It cycled within a week or so as I recall. Being conservative and coming from FW, I waited out the NO2 phase religiously.
I always figured setups at conventions basically brought a bio filter with them—canisters, sumps full of rock, bioballs, whatever, with enough of a bio filter to keep things healthy.
I’ve cycled FW tanks that way, and it takes days instead of weeks. There isn’t even much of a cycle.
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Reefrookie733
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Well after 31 days this was my Ammonia and Nitrites last night. Brandon was right, the nirtrites did drop significantly in the last week. But still not sure the LFS lady will sell me fish with it at this level. Maybe i dont have her test it this time and tell her its ready???
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