Cycling a new tank question

[Msamazing]

Does anybody have any opinions, experience, or thoughts about using

DrTim's Aquatics Ammonium Chloride Aquarium and Nitrifying Bacteria to cycle a tank?​

Instead of using livestock like a couple of fish.

 

[mcarroll]

Does anybody have any opinions, experience, or thoughts about using

DrTim's Aquatics Ammonium Chloride Aquarium and Nitrifying Bacteria to cycle a tank?​

Instead of using livestock like a couple of fish.

Well, there are a ton of threads on it already....a search would be your best friend.

Something to know is that Dr Tim himself says it's unnecessary. (It's in the FAQ.)

Most folks who try it seem to have no idea what the natural method even is, which is very unfortunate.

Lots of folks who try it have nothing but trouble....make sure you look at problem threads before you look at the cheerleader threads. Cycling a tank should be the easiest thing you do setting up the tank (it's practically automatic), so this is also unfortunate. Lastly but not leastly, ammonia isn't as bad as it's made out to be by the fishless cheerleaders – look for Randy's article: "Ammonia is your friend."

IMO it's one of the more regressive trends in the hobby.

If there is some kinf of emergency that you need a tank set up "right now" then use Dr Tim's One and Only but do it according to the directions for "instant cycling".

If there's no emergency, then just set the tank up with the rock and sand and water flow, but no lights and the smallest critter you can feed a little bit....a hermit crab would work for most smaller tanks...feed it just a little. Basically pick the critter(s) based on the size of the tank you're setting up. The water volume is going to dilute the ammonia so much that your goal will be to simply avoid an ammonia spike altogether. In 30-40 days it'll be cycled after which you slowly, steadily stock the tank from smallest to biggest, ending in fish. Corals can go in at any time (even Day 1) if you're already comfortable tending to their needs, otherwise whenever you're read up and comfortable adding them.

Hopefully that makes sense. Either way I'd also recommend looking at the book "Marine Aquarium Handbook" by Martin Moe. Excellent book FULL of great fundamentals like this. Used to be standard reading for most newbies back in the day....it should still be, but we know how reading books is these days. ;)

Good luck! Post back with questions as needed!

 

[Fish Fan]

Having used Dr. tim's One and Only myself, and having been a part of I don't even know how many threads on R2R where people have used it, this is my take:

Dr. Tim's One and Only does not instantly cycle a tank; it takes +/- 3 weeks. If one needs to instantly cycle a tank, only Fritz Turbostart 900 works to establish a biofilter in as little as a couple of days. Fritz is now the only bacteria-in-a-bottle product that I would suggest using, and, more importantly, I know RHF suggests using Fritz Turbostart as well:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...n-to-be-the-best.1139820/page-2#post-14387353

I would also always suggest using real, wet live rock to establish a tank over using bacteria-in-a-bottle products, and I think Randy agrees with this too:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/starter-additives.1158800/#post-14353142

That said, it could not be more straight forward and easy to cycle a tank with Dr. Tim's for those that prefer a dry rock/bottled bacteria start. Simply add the dose of bacteria and enough ammonium chloride to bring the concentration of ammonia up to about 2.00 ppm using a decent test kit (not just counting drops of the ammonium chloride). Watch for the ammonia to drop to nearly-zero, and you're good to go. There's no need to measure or be concerned with nitrite. You can "test" the system by dosing ammonia back up to about 2.00 ppm and checking again in 24 hours. If the ammonia goes from 2.00 ppm to under about 0.25 to 0.50 ppm, you're good. There is no need to continually dose the ammonia over and over again; once or twice is all that's needed.

Years ago it was common place to cycle new tanks using hardly livestock such as Clownfish, Damsel fish, or hardy crabs or hermits. Although I've done this myself, I no longer suggest using livestock to cycle a tank. We have other methods, like using live rock or Fritz Turbostart, that are simple and effective.

Randy's "Ammonia Is Our Friend" thread DOES NOT advise raising free ammonia to over about 0.25 ppm, which indeed is safe, but ammonia over 1.00 ppm - like when cycling a tank - can be dangerous to livestock:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-is-our-friend-thoughts-needed.1066535/

Here's Randy suggesting that while it may take >10 ppm ammonia to cause a fish fatality, he advises taking action when ammonia rises to 1.00 ppm or higher:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/acceptable-ammonia.1168090/#post-14495242

Additionally, here's Jay Hemdal warning, "I worry about total ammonia readings above 1 ppm"
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/quarantine-questions.1167048/post-14484914

Again, I wouldn't add livestock to a new, uncycled tank in this day and age; use live rock or cycle the tank with bacteria and ammonia.

I hope this helps and good luck!

 

[Dan_P]

Having used Dr. tim's One and Only myself, and having been a part of I don't even know how many threads on R2R where people have used it, this is my take:

Dr. Tim's One and Only does not instantly cycle a tank; it takes +/- 3 weeks. If one needs to instantly cycle a tank, only Fritz Turbostart 900 works to establish a biofilter in as little as a couple of days. Fritz is now the only bacteria-in-a-bottle product that I would suggest using, and, more importantly, I know RHF suggests using Fritz Turbostart as well:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...n-to-be-the-best.1139820/page-2#post-14387353

I would also always suggest using real, wet live rock to establish a tank over using bacteria-in-a-bottle products, and I think Randy agrees with this too:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/starter-additives.1158800/#post-14353142

That said, it could not be more straight forward and easy to cycle a tank with Dr. Tim's for those that prefer a dry rock/bottled bacteria start. Simply add the dose of bacteria and enough ammonium chloride to bring the concentration of ammonia up to about 2.00 ppm using a decent test kit (not just counting drops of the ammonium chloride). Watch for the ammonia to drop to nearly-zero, and you're good to go. There's no need to measure or be concerned with nitrite. You can "test" the system by dosing ammonia back up to about 2.00 ppm and checking again in 24 hours. If the ammonia goes from 2.00 ppm to under about 0.25 to 0.50 ppm, you're good. There is no need to continually dose the ammonia over and over again; once or twice is all that's needed.

Years ago it was common place to cycle new tanks using hardly livestock such as Clownfish, Damsel fish, or hardy crabs or hermits. Although I've done this myself, I no longer suggest using livestock to cycle a tank. We have other methods, like using live rock or Fritz Turbostart, that are simple and effective.

Randy's "Ammonia Is Our Friend" thread DOES NOT advise raising free ammonia to over about 0.25 ppm, which indeed is safe, but ammonia over 1.00 ppm - like when cycling a tank - can be dangerous to livestock:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-is-our-friend-thoughts-needed.1066535/

Here's Randy suggesting that while it may take >10 ppm ammonia to cause a fish fatality, he advises taking action when ammonia rises to 1.00 ppm or higher:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/acceptable-ammonia.1168090/#post-14495242

Additionally, here's Jay Hemdal warning, "I worry about total ammonia readings above 1 ppm"
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/quarantine-questions.1167048/post-14484914

Again, I wouldn't add livestock to a new, uncycled tank in this day and age; use live rock or cycle the tank with bacteria and ammonia.

I hope this helps and good luck!

Very thorough ^^^

 

[Fish Fan]

Very thorough ^^^

Thank you sir!

 

[exnisstech]

I cycled with household ammonia with no additives the same as I used to do freshwater. Some fritz turbo start can help and gets better feedback than Dr. Tims bacteria. Live rock is my choice to start a tank. I've used all live rock and added coral 24hrs later.

 

[Freenow54]

Well, there are a ton of threads on it already....a search would be your best friend.

Something to know is that Dr Tim himself says it's unnecessary. (It's in the FAQ.)

Most folks who try it seem to have no idea what the natural method even is, which is very unfortunate.

Lots of folks who try it have nothing but trouble....make sure you look at problem threads before you look at the cheerleader threads. Cycling a tank should be the easiest thing you do setting up the tank (it's practically automatic), so this is also unfortunate. Lastly but not leastly, ammonia isn't as bad as it's made out to be by the fishless cheerleaders – look for Randy's article: "Ammonia is your friend."

IMO it's one of the more regressive trends in the hobby.

If there is some kinf of emergency that you need a tank set up "right now" then use Dr Tim's One and Only but do it according to the directions for "instant cycling".

If there's no emergency, then just set the tank up with the rock and sand and water flow, but no lights and the smallest critter you can feed a little bit....a hermit crab would work for most smaller tanks...feed it just a little. Basically pick the critter(s) based on the size of the tank you're setting up. The water volume is going to dilute the ammonia so much that your goal will be to simply avoid an ammonia spike altogether. In 30-40 days it'll be cycled after which you slowly, steadily stock the tank from smallest to biggest, ending in fish. Corals can go in at any time (even Day 1) if you're already comfortable tending to their needs, otherwise whenever you're read up and comfortable adding them.

Hopefully that makes sense. Either way I'd also recommend looking at the book "Marine Aquarium Handbook" by Martin Moe. Excellent book FULL of great fundamentals like this. Used to be standard reading for most newbies back in the day....it should still be, but we know how reading books is these days. ;)

Good luck! Post back with questions as needed!

I agree I use pure obviously unscented Ammonia. Probably a lot cheaper I would guess

 

[mcarroll]

Dr. Tim's One and Only does not instantly cycle a tank;

That's a pretty concrete statement.

I wonder if you are overstating the case since it's not really your claim, you're just repeating what you heard somewhere else?

I also wonder if you/anyone could point to a thread where instant cycling was actually attempted?

Ie without adding ammonia but with adding fish on Day 1.

I'd actually like to see more than one thread (lots more) so there could be some chance at a significance vs just being anecdote. I've done some searching and haven't come up with anything (thanks, Google!)....except that there is a patent that seems to assert the opposite of the claim you are repeating.

No hard feelings, I know you are just repeating a message with the intention of helping. I'm just really curious about the claim.

 

[The Farmer]

Used for every new start up.

 

[Subsea]

I use diver collected live rock to cycle a tank and will add coral the next day.

 

[Fish Fan]

That's a pretty concrete statement.

I wonder if you are overstating the case since it's not really your claim, you're just repeating what you heard somewhere else?

Why do you assume this is not my statement? I reached that conclusion through personal experience with the product, as well as being part of likely 100+ "help me cycle my tank threads" here on R2R.

I also wonder if you/anyone could point to a thread where instant cycling was actually attempted?

Ie without adding ammonia but with adding fish on Day 1.

I'm certain a thread or two like that would exists, I would have to look. I think often when people try this they are adding Clownfish, which we one of the original fish-in cycle fish. In my experience the Clownfish do typically pull through the process, but whether or not it's a pleasant experience for them is in some debate. I personally see no need to use a fish-in cycle anymore, with options like live rock and bottled bacteria products available. That's indeed my personal opinion, but one I think the majority here at R2R share.

except that there is a patent that seems to assert the opposite of the claim you are repeating.

Perhaps I've uncovered the first example of a product not living up to its claims

No hard feelings, I know you are just repeating a message with the intention of helping. I'm just really curious about the claim.

No hard feelings at all; I enjoy the conversation. But again, I'm not merely parroting back some message I saw online. I've been keeping aquaria since the late 1970's, my first marine tank was around 1985 or so, I was a one time biology grad student, and I have first hand experience with the Dr. Tim's product. I believe that background allows me to form my own opinion about the product.

That said, I don't ever try to claim that I'm an expert and I don't ask people to blindly trust my advise. That's why I included the links above from Jay and Randy, who are truly experts

 

[mcarroll]

Why do you assume this is not my statement? I reached that conclusion through personal experience with the product, as well as being part of likely 100+ "help me cycle my tank threads" here on R2R.


I'm certain a thread or two like that would exists, I would have to look. I think often when people try this they are adding Clownfish, which we one of the original fish-in cycle fish. In my experience the Clownfish do typically pull through the process, but whether or not it's a pleasant experience for them is in some debate. I personally see no need to use a fish-in cycle anymore, with options like live rock and bottled bacteria products available. That's indeed my personal opinion, but one I think the majority here at R2R share.


Perhaps I've uncovered the first example of a product not living up to its claims


No hard feelings at all; I enjoy the conversation. But again, I'm not merely parroting back some message I saw online. I've been keeping aquaria since the late 1970's, my first marine tank was around 1985 or so, I was a one time biology grad student, and I have first hand experience with the Dr. Tim's product. I believe that background allows me to form my own opinion about the product.

That said, I don't ever try to claim that I'm an expert and I don't ask people to blindly trust my advise. That's why I included the links above from Jay and Randy, who are truly experts

Just looking for more than an anecdote that's all.

Maybe everyone else is parroting you...I would have no idea since it's just repeated online ad nauseam as if it were fact, without reference.

Sometimes on various topics we like to keep higher standards than that. For me this is one of those times.

 

[Fish Fan]

Just looking for more than an anecdote that's all.

Maybe everyone else is parroting you...I would have no idea since it's just repeated online ad nauseam as if it were fact, without reference.

Sometimes on various topics we like to keep higher standards than that. For me this is one of those times.

Fair enough.